TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[Echo]

echo I'd like to ask you straight out what your opinion is of coconut and the info she provides. ... Do you think coconut is really printing the truth as she knows/hears/receives it and with good intentions or do you think she's just trying to nefariously stir shit for TSR with heresay and insinuations?

I don't believe Coconut is trying to mislead anyone. I believe that she is receiving a good deal of legitimate information (albeit second or third hand,) interpreting that information best that she can, and sharing the results as required by her sense of personal integrity. I also believe that she is operating from a position which is very anti-TSR, and writing for an audience who is equally anti-TSR, and as such it will be naturally inclined to believe the absolute worst of everything that comes across her virtual desk.

Assuming that one reads the blog with that understanding as a given, my only objection to the stuff presented in her blog is that it is frequently ambiguous whether the information presented is "as-is" or "with editorializing and personal interpretation". As such a great many people in her target audience assume that everything is truth, even those parts which are speculative.

I'm asking because, regardless differences of opinion you seem to be at least thoughtful and well reasoned in your POV's and I don't necessarily get the impression that you're a defender of TSR, however to be honest I am questioning why you chose to make an appearance at this particular moment in time.

I lurk at a lot of different places, including here. I have posted before as well, although admittedly not recently. I spoke this time I saw Johan behaving in what seemed like a fairly civil way, and then I saw ShanOw (a young man with whom I have worked in the past, and for whom I have a lot of respect) responding in a way which seemed out of character, bordering on obnoxious. I posted in response to that, everything else just... followed on.

P.S. While I got you. Who do I have to fuck to get the Purity Project stuff for TS3 ?  

The only stuff in that project which was actually mine was the eyebot and the animation for the extractor fan. I'm not really doing a lot of TS3 meshing, but you're more welcome to repack the eyebot mesh into a TS3 radio. (Anything of mine is public domain as far as I'm concerned.) The rest of the content was from Bonnie, SweetSwami (who I think has now retired, alas,) and PixelHate. They're all very lovely people, so you may have some luck asking them directly?

[WedgewoodBlue]

Please tell us you are not now attempting to claim that this is where you saw the list......on Coconut's blog. I know from PERSONAL experience how you ignore valid complaints, and manipulate your customers. Or are you now admitting to having the list in your possession, and then sharing it, before your despicable actions were revealed?
IF you really do have nothing to hide, then for once have the decency to actually answer a direct questions as it is posed to you.
Oh duh.....I forgot who I was addressing this to.

This made absolutely no sense to me but since you asked for an answer i will answer.

We read the list on Coconut's blog. We don't have the list and we have never had it.

Was that an answer to your question? If not you will have to clarify it.

OK, then that answers one of the questions I asked.
1. So how do you account for Atwa claiming that Thomas gave her the list? Are you now denying that had any knowledge of this list until you read it on Coconut's blog? Are we to believe that the first time you saw this list was on Coconut's blog?
2. Is your title at TSR "Damage Control"?
3. You claim Atwa "snuck" into your site......is it a business practice you have to hire someone totally unknown to become the Artist Manager? Would it not make more sense to promote from within?
4. Are you not sick and tired of showing up here to defend your questionable business ethics every time Thomas makes a colossal blunder?
5. My account at TSR was compromised, I have proof. I was NEVER informed by TSR that it had been compromised, yet TSR provided Delphy with documentation of compromised accounts, and surprise, surprise, my account was in with that supplied documentation. That is irrefutable proof that TSR KNEW my account was compromised. You could give Delphy that information, but not me? Like I care at this point if you figure out who I am at TSR, since  I don't subscribe any more, nor do I visit the site. When I first found out there was a problem, I got the run around, I never did get the truth....WHY?

For your information,   I am not, nor have I ever been any kind of a creator, nor have I EVER shared a TSR file with this site. So while I agree with this sites position, I am not a pirate, by the legal definition. But once you find out who I am, and I have NO doubt that you will do whatever it takes to find my identity on your site, I know you will ban me and brand me as an illegal file sharer. You WILL lie about me, of this I am utterly convinced, you've done it to other innocent people whom you merely SUSPECT of file sharing.
Here at least we can OPENLY and HONESTLY discuss and debate issues within the Sims community. You cannot say the same about TSR. One small step beyond your party line and BOOM, you bring out that magic "delete" button, and you somehow think that makes the issue vanish. You stomp all over anyone who opposes you and think you have the right to behave that way.
TSR is nothing more than a dictatorship run by idiots who bully anyone who gets in their way. That is the TSR that I object to. I don't see you, at any time in the future changing your tactics. Neither do I ever see honesty and respect being a part of your business plan.
What you should maybe give some thought to, is actually knowing what Thomas and Atwa are doing. Is does appear that what they tell you is not what they are really doing. If you did know, you would not continually have to come here, and waste your time trying to defend their actions. Instead you could better spend your time educating your fellow employees on business ethics, the proper kind of business ethic, not the perverted kind that exists on TSR.
You DO NOT ever have the right to release anyone's personal information, for any reason. You cannot ever justify that practice.

[ShanOw]

2. Is your title at TSR "Damage Control"?

In all honesty, I have the slightest wee bit of respect for Johan coming here (again) to clean up after Thomas & Co in an intelligent and civil manner. At least its better than being left in an incoherent insult match with one of the other less civil TSR'ians who will not present their view in a reasonable manner.

But seriously, take whatever you have to the right authorities, gather "evidence" from other involved parties and get it to the right authorities and let them mediate between the argument. Arguing is only useful when it is done between people who can take action - so until we have someone who can actually do something in the situation the bantering between parties is achieving very little.


...and prepare for attack 

[simneesee]

 For your information,   I am not, nor have I ever been any kind of a creator, nor have I EVER shared a TSR file with this site. So while I agree with this sites position, I am not a pirate, by the legal definition. But once you find out who I am, and I have NO doubt that you will do whatever it takes to find my identity on your site, I know you will ban me and brand me as an illegal file sharer. You WILL lie about me, of this I am utterly convinced, you've done it to other innocent people whom you merely SUSPECT of file sharing.
Here at least we can OPENLY and HONESTLY discuss and debate issues within the Sims community. You cannot say the same about TSR. One small step beyond your party line and BOOM, you bring out that magic "delete" button, and you somehow think that makes the issue vanish. You stomp all over anyone who opposes you and think you have the right to behave that way.
TSR is nothing more than a dictatorship run by idiots who bully anyone who gets in their way. That is the TSR that I object to. I don't see you, at any time in the future changing your tactics. Neither do I ever see honesty and respect being a part of your business plan.
What you should maybe give some thought to, is actually knowing what Thomas and Atwa are doing. Is does appear that what they tell you is not what they are really doing. If you did know, you would not continually have to come here, and waste your time trying to defend their actions. Instead you could better spend your time educating your fellow employees on business ethics, the proper kind of business ethic, not the perverted kind that exists on TSR.
You DO NOT ever have the right to release anyone's personal information, for any reason. You cannot ever justify that practice.
[/quote]

^ I love you...like seriously, and I 100% agree.

I have been quietly lurking in the shadows watching this whole situation transpire. I have read all these pages and pages of back-and-forth and while some of it confused me, I think I get the general gist of what's happening. I see a lot of people considering going to the authorities about this. My question is (if you feel like sharing) What are you planning to say? I ask this because when paysite owners threaten legal action against sites like PMBD, the lawsuits never seem to go anywhere. (Not saying the two are in any way related, just wondering if the authorities will care) Seeing as this isn't really an EA issue, I don't really see them stepping in and saying anything further. And TSR has stated that they didn't do it, ( )  so what will you all (those who are named on the list) do, if anything?

[Paden]

I have no respect for Johan whatsoever coming here and saying that shit and doing damage control at all, it looks to me like the first stage of trying to fool the community into thinking they are going to change their ways and then stabbing us in the back with something new. Hey, you don't hang around on a Pescodo run site for years without some of the paranoia creeping into your own mind a bit. Saves on massive shocks to the system in the long run if you aren't all that trusting a tiger to change his stripes and not eat your livestock once you've been lulled into a false sense of security.

[ShanOw]

I have no respect for Johan whatsoever coming here and saying that shit and doing damage control at all, it looks to me like the first stage of trying to fool the community into thinking they are going to change their ways and then stabbing us in the back with something new.

That's more than likely true, but at least he (unlike his brother) has the balls to come over here and try it. Even if the attempt is feeble, one has to admire the effort

[lorikay]

I don't admire the effort at all.  The effort is not for the community, it's for TSR's profits.  Their bottom line is the only reason that johan comes here or anywhere.  They're running a business.  He just comes here to play with us.  He really doesn't care for anything except being at top on the google list and making sure nothing negative about his site is allowed to be said on his site.  Hell, I'm not sure if johan and thomas and atwa aren't the same person.   

Since I'm on that list that johan says TSR has never had, I'll be interested in things to come. 

[ShanOw]

Hell, I'm not sure if johan and thomas and atwa aren't the same person.

Johan is a coder, Thomas can kinda do graphics stuff. If they were both the same person as atwa then why is she so craptacular at everything?


And just because I admire his effort to screw the community over, doesn't mean I have any respect for him or the site he is trying to protect. Sure he only cares about his money and doesn't want to help the free community at all, but at least his actively trying to protect his profits - unlike thomas who seems to be sitting on his greedy as as per usual. I consider him the lesser of two (three if we count the twat) evils. Doesn't mean I don't want to see the site burn into a fiery ball visible from space.

[johan]

However, if it can be established that the petition was hacked and that the list could only have come from the hacking, then you have a completely different case. Especially since according to Pescado’s information it is likely that TSR is behind the hacking. So now they are suddenly guilty of three things. 1) Hacking. 2) Distributing information that has been obtained illegally. 3) Distributing personal information with or without malicious intent. That’s quite a different ballgame and a case that any authority would have a harder time dismissing. I will almost assure you that the Swedish police will listen to a complaint of that order – and it wouldn’t matter one bit if it came in an email from a foreigner.

So all of a sudden if the list was hacked TSR is guilty, even without any sort of evidence?
All Pescado's been doing is telling stories about how he knows hacking and that we're too stupid for doing proper hacking but have some kind of leverage.
He have been asked to present such evidence on several occasions (both now by you and i've asked him in the past) but he have failed to do so.

[Zillah]

okay Johan, you keep asking for information, for good faith gestures on our part, how about one from you? If you guys are all so innocent and squeaky clean, explain how and why Atwat keeps turning up in the middle of any drama about TSR.

Except Atwat's persistent return. Every time it's sworn she's gone, she comes back, gets revealed, and then refired and rehired under yet another username.  Really shows you have nothing to hide. I'm sure we'll believe you *this* time. 

Yes she managed to sneak in again but we certainly did not rehire her.

bolding mine.

okay, then how does she keep getting in? Is the bathroom window not locked? Does she somehow psychically intuit the necessary codes, passwords and permissions to operate on a level above that of anonymous drone? Explain how, even though you attest she was not rehired, and is therefore, by implication in no way an official staff member or employee of TSR, and is, presumably acting entirely on her own accord, unsupported by the powers that be, she is clearly and repeatedly operating with information. access and priveledges that could only have come from a person or person at or near the top of the food chain @ TSR.

Is she batshit crazy - yes. Is she a paranoid, delusional stalker operating within the realm of an exaggerated fantasy relationship with Tom and god knows who else? certainly. Is she pulling all this access and permissions out of her ass. Nope. She's not sneaking in, someone keeps opening the door for her. Who and why? Because every time the shit gets stirred, Atwat wanders in with a spoon.

[johan]

OK, then that answers one of the questions I asked.
1. So how do you account for Atwa claiming that Thomas gave her the list? Are you now denying that had any knowledge of this list until you read it on Coconut's blog? Are we to believe that the first time you saw this list was on Coconut's blog?
2. Is your title at TSR "Damage Control"?
3. You claim Atwa "snuck" into your site......is it a business practice you have to hire someone totally unknown to become the Artist Manager? Would it not make more sense to promote from within?
4. Are you not sick and tired of showing up here to defend your questionable business ethics every time Thomas makes a colossal blunder?
5. My account at TSR was compromised, I have proof. I was NEVER informed by TSR that it had been compromised, yet TSR provided Delphy with documentation of compromised accounts, and surprise, surprise, my account was in with that supplied documentation. That is irrefutable proof that TSR KNEW my account was compromised. You could give Delphy that information, but not me? Like I care at this point if you figure out who I am at TSR, since  I don't subscribe any more, nor do I visit the site. When I first found out there was a problem, I got the run around, I never did get the truth....WHY?

For your information,   I am not, nor have I ever been any kind of a creator, nor have I EVER shared a TSR file with this site. So while I agree with this sites position, I am not a pirate, by the legal definition. But once you find out who I am, and I have NO doubt that you will do whatever it takes to find my identity on your site, I know you will ban me and brand me as an illegal file sharer. You WILL lie about me, of this I am utterly convinced, you've done it to other innocent people whom you merely SUSPECT of file sharing.
Here at least we can OPENLY and HONESTLY discuss and debate issues within the Sims community. You cannot say the same about TSR. One small step beyond your party line and BOOM, you bring out that magic "delete" button, and you somehow think that makes the issue vanish. You stomp all over anyone who opposes you and think you have the right to behave that way.
TSR is nothing more than a dictatorship run by idiots who bully anyone who gets in their way. That is the TSR that I object to. I don't see you, at any time in the future changing your tactics. Neither do I ever see honesty and respect being a part of your business plan.
What you should maybe give some thought to, is actually knowing what Thomas and Atwa are doing. Is does appear that what they tell you is not what they are really doing. If you did know, you would not continually have to come here, and waste your time trying to defend their actions. Instead you could better spend your time educating your fellow employees on business ethics, the proper kind of business ethic, not the perverted kind that exists on TSR.
You DO NOT ever have the right to release anyone's personal information, for any reason. You cannot ever justify that practice.

1. I'm not NOW denying, i've said it from the start that we don't have anything to do with the list. Yes we read it on Coconut's blog. What Atwa said or didn't say is beyond our control.
I'm not here to defend Atwa, what she does or doesn't do is completely on her own. With that said, do you know for sure what she have claimed, if it ever happened?

2. I have explained why i came here.

3. That's not what i'm saying. She recently managed to sneak in as CarpeDiem and without us knowing it was her she managed to become a select artist. At the time she became the artist manager she was indeed promoted from within, as Atwa.

4. I don't agree with "questionable business ethics" and "Thomas makes a colossal blunder".

5. As far as i remember i did try to help you in support but we never managed to sort it out (and netiher did Delphy, this was the buggybooz incident that we also get the blame for). We did our best to help him in the investigation therefore we sent him the list of logins or login attempts that were following the same pattern as the compromised accounts on his site.
We should have informed you that your account was compromised, that was probably my own fault for not doing so. I was caught up investigations and didn't think of it.
If i didn't tell you i'm sorry before then here it comes: I'm sorry for neglecting to inform you that someone other than you logged in to your account.

I have no interest in finding you on TSR, as far as i know you haven't done anything that you should get banned for.
The rest is your personal opinion, i have another.

[johan]

okay, then how does she keep getting in? Is the bathroom window not locked? Does she somehow psychically intuit the necessary codes, passwords and permissions to operate on a level above that of anonymous drone? Explain how, even though you attest she was not rehired, and is therefore, by implication in no way an official staff member or employee of TSR, and is, presumably acting entirely on her own accord, unsupported by the powers that be, she is clearly and repeatedly operating with information. access and priveledges that could only have come from a person or person at or near the top of the food chain @ TSR.

Is she batshit crazy - yes. Is she a paranoid, delusional stalker operating within the realm of an exaggerated fantasy relationship with Tom and god knows who else? certainly. Is she pulling all this access and permissions out of her ass. Nope. She's not sneaking in, someone keeps opening the door for her. Who and why? Because every time the shit gets stirred, Atwat wanders in with a spoon.

I'm really not comfortable in adding more fuel to coconut's fire. There is a real person behind all of this and there is no decency in the witch hunt going on.
We have tried to make it clear to her that she can't be an artist on TSR. We don't do extensive background checks on every new artists that join us, no artist have access to the member database or other sensitive information though.

[SnarkyShark]

I'm really not comfortable in adding more fuel to coconut's fire. There is a real person behind all of this and there is no decency in the witch hunt going on.

LOL - The only witch hunt occurred at TSR and was spearheaded by your brother. We have the screencaps to prove it.  And don't even start blathering on about how you've "already admitted" to sharing people's info, because you seriously had NO FUCKING CHOICE in the matter once coconut made the disclosure and forced your hand.

Now, in case anybody needs to catch up, johan is affiliated with TSR. He only shows up whenever TSR is reeling from another coconut-induced crises. His only purpose in coming here is to discredit coconut and maybe see if he can get some info that might help them discover his/her identity. And for the record, whether or not he's being "fairly civil" while he's attempting to do it really is beside the point.

Still want to give him the benefit of the doubt? Consider this - Every time someone downloads from the TSR section of the Booty, it's costing his family's "fansite" money. There's a bit-o-evidence for you.


edit - just read lorikay's post and she pretty much went there first - 

[Pescado]

No, the information clearly came from the petition, but it didn’t necessarily come from a hacking. Think WitchBoy! There are plenty of possibilities. Bluesoup could have given it to them, for instance.

The Soup has been missing for months, and this scenario is not particularly plausible in any event.

Or the petition could have been sent to EA and the information could have come from there.

Even less plausible, for the following reasons.
1. The Soup denies that the petition was ever sent, as a result of it being hacked.
2. Petition sites are not actually in the business of sending petitions, because they have zero useful effect. They are in the business of collecting ad hits from people who show up to sign.
3. EA has absolutely no motive to pay attention to, much less share info from, a petition of some 600 names of dubious validity. Such an act would simply be beneath them, and if such a document were to be sent to them, it would likely not make it past the spamblockers, let alone be looked at.
4. Petitions are absolutey worthless, and no one with half a brain pays attention to them. Even paper petitions are meaningless, let alone e-Petitions with only a few hundred names about a subject of no relevance to EA.

[KatCat]

3. That's not what i'm saying. She recently managed to sneak in as CarpeDiem and without us knowing it was her she managed to become a select artist. At the time she became the artist manager she was indeed promoted from within, as Atwa.

Bolded by me - I just have to jump in here.  

Atwat managed to sneak in, Johan?  What kind of site you running...oh, wait....    You guys don't even check something as simple as IP addresses, email addresses, or anything before hiring your artists?  Every forum admin in the community knows how to do that.  Geez! It is called screening an employee and is a normal business practice.  

So, pull the other one now.