TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[kenmtl]

I mean, if you've got nothing else going for you, be top of the heap at the Sims Resource!

Ouch.

[neriana]

But comparing Tomass to Jim Jones seems over the top to me.

It's also inaccurate. Thomass is NOT charismatic. 

Tell that to Atwa.

Obviously Thomass does have a certain level of charisma, the amount of a small-time con artist. It doesn't take a lot, but it does take some, to get even dumb people to believe your lies at first. Of course, once you've got people hooked, most of them will do your job for you. They believe in you because if they stopped, they feel they would have to stop believing in themselves.

[calalily]

I mean, if you've got nothing else going for you, be top of the heap at the Sims Resource!

Ouch.

Truth hurts.

But comparing Tomass to Jim Jones seems over the top to me.

It's also inaccurate. Thomass is NOT charismatic. 

Tell that to Atwa.

One love starved bint does not make one charismatic.  He's a great liar, granted, but really, they want to be fooled with his lies. A charismatic guy could tell them more truth and they'd still follow him.

[neriana]

He's a great liar, granted, but really, they want to be fooled with his lies. A charismatic guy could tell them more truth and they'd still follow him.

I think we're using "charismatic" differently. You seem to see it as an either/or thing. I see it as a continuity. If someone had no charisma, he simply could not lead even TSR. It's not like I'm claiming he's Cary Grant or something. But only someone with a certain amount of charisma can make people want to believe him when he lies. And actually, I think Thomass is a quite crappy liar. I could think of much better ways to lie than he does.

[dstar]

I was not intending to disrespect those that lost their lives at Jonestown- I in no way devalue their deaths - what this statement was meant to reflect is that there is a whole class of people including, Hitler, Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, Michael Milken the stock broker who snowed hundreds out of their retirement savings getting them to invest in junk bonds and so on- These men (and I say men because this type of con artist usually is male) use charm, money, and whatever else it takes to get people to conform to how they think the world should be- This can come at all different levels and yes Thomass is minor in comparison to many of these con artists but he still uses whatever brains charm or money he has to control, manipulate, and otherwise snow under people who may otherwise be reasonably intelligent (I assume this because even learning how to mesh and recolor badly involves a reasonable amt of intelligence because you have to learn how to run the program and Milkshape and Photoshoop even poorly used are not at the same level as Microsoft Paint in terms of how simple they are to learn how to use).

A more apt comparison perhaps would have been Michael Miliken (e.g. he is selling people junk and conning them out of their money) than Jim Jones because Miliken and Thomass are more on the same level morally even if Miliken did snow people out of greater amts of money than Thomass.
There are different levels of conning people and the con games used by these people are used with different end results  but they are all for the purpose of money, power and control- I would say that hacking peoples accounts, selling their information to the highest bidder, encouraging the theft of free creators work, bashing and slandering respected programmers, site owners, creators and modders within the community because they dislike and or disagree with him, and conning EA into thinking that he and his site are the best possible representatives of the Sims community and that they should have exclusive access to tools, code and methods for producing CC for Sims 3- These are all clear indicators that he is seeking money power and control over the Sims Community and if he has his way (like this is going to happen at this point) there will be no free CC for Sims 3- manipulation and con games are exactly that - he is simply playing these games at  the kindergarten level - where every single con artist whether they are conning people into murdering others for them, or conning them out of money starts- the only difference is that we are all (including many former FA's ) becoming wise to his con games quickly because he is to stupid to actually pull it off.

[Paleoanth]

 It doesn't take a lot, but it does take some, to get even dumb people to believe your lies at first.

And actually, I think Thomass is a quite crappy liar. I could think of much better ways to lie than he does.

Which, of course, implies that anyone that believed him at all is a dumb person.  As a former SA, and someone who did believe him for awhile, I don't appreciate being called dumb-even by implication. 

[CatOfWar]

he still uses whatever brains charm or money he has to control, manipulate, and otherwise snow under people who may otherwise be reasonably intelligent

I don't think there's any implied insult there, looks to me like dstar is saying con artists fool otherwise smart people.

Also, as someone already mentioned, once someone starts going along with a con artist, there's a temptation to ignore and attack critics, because listening to them would mean admitting one had been conned. 

[Paleoanth]

I didn't quote dstar, nor was I referring to anything dstar said.

[CatOfWar]

I didn't quote dstar, nor was I referring to anything dstar said.

True, I misread your post.  Saw it right after dstar's.

[rum nate]

I personally feel that Thomas is probably loosing his touch. He probably was a really good liar back when Paleoanth was a SA, but as time went on he started to lose his touch, to the point now that people outside of TSR can tell when ever he is lying because we know his tricks, and really, we expect it. The people at TSR may still believe him, the regular users that is. The FAs and mods may know at times when he lies, but doesn't want to believe it because that disgraces their image of Thomas, and they are too loyal to him for that to happen.

[missangelica]

I don't think the majority of the FA's and SA's are idiots.  Think of how many have come out of the fog of tsr and came to our side.  

I don't think most are idiots either. However at this point in the game if you're still drinking the kool-aid then it's kinda idiot by association, don't ya think?

Yes and no, but I doubt either of us care enough to have a discussion over what would probably break down to semantics and so I'll leave it at that.

--

And I don't know about Jim Jones.  I think he's more like Tom Jones to them.   

[Darqstar]

 It doesn't take a lot, but it does take some, to get even dumb people to believe your lies at first.

And actually, I think Thomass is a quite crappy liar. I could think of much better ways to lie than he does.

Which, of course, implies that anyone that believed him at all is a dumb person.  As a former SA, and someone who did believe him for awhile, I don't appreciate being called dumb-even by implication.  

Nah, she probably meant former SA's like me.  yaknow, the ones that work jobs that a just so low.

[calalily]

If someone had no charisma, he simply could not lead even TSR. It's not like I'm claiming he's Cary Grant or something.

He doesn't lead TSR though - not by a long shot.  He's the most visible with his crazy schemes, and general wacky mayhem but he doesn't lead TSR. Steve does.

[neriana]

Oh please. Darqstar, I was not implying that your job was "just so low", period. If you want to keep fighting with me over this, PM me.

And no, I was not implying that anyone who believed Thomas was stupid. Trusting, perhaps naive. If you have not yet learned this, ANYONE can be suckered. However, I do think a massive majority of the FAs now are stupid, even independent of them believing or not believing Thomas, because of what they themselves have written. They come off as extremely dumb people.

Steve leads TSR, but Thomas is the figurehead, and he has people he publicly screws over regularly giving him tongue baths. There are plenty of people in the world (the U.S.'s former president comes to mind) who know how to project charisma to a certain subset of people, while everyone else wonders how this sack of wet noodles is popular with anyone. Anyone with a following has charisma. Having a following you regularly screw over while being a lying scumbag does imply a certain amount of skill. If Thomas had a lot of skill at it, he'd be doing something else. 

[Skoria_Bay]

If you think of TSR in business terms, Steve is the main boss, with Thomas like a supervisor or team lead who has direct contact with the employees (FA's, SA's, etc.). Thomas's lies at first were believed because no one had proof of him doing anything shady and human nature tends to believe and trust at first (most people not all I realize). But then as time went on and people began to catch Thomas's lies or double talk and fortunately keep record of it so that now we caught his lies so many times, he (Thomas) can't keep track of them all any more so now he looks like the fool he really is.

I just hope that no one applies for FA's for Sims 3 and TSR crashes big time.