Random rant that was on the Booty shopping list

[Pirate Panda]

Many thanks for the reply, Captain, and some good advice.
I'll try sending them an e-mail, the main reason I submitted a request first is because the owner of the site had taken down all their content once before, and I do not wish to upset them into taking it down again. It's very hard to find good meshers who are willing to take up a request for something, an item that would prove very popular or that is very hard to obtain.
If the site owner fails to understand the message I put across, and fails to understand further if I breif them again, I'll let you know.
If all else fails, I'll get a subscription and submit some of the content to the Booty once I get my online payment working again.

Hey, guys. Please hear me out. Seriously, I don't think it's a good idea to submit content from Silver Wind. If the site owner sees their content posted on the Booty, they WILL close down their site and take all downloads away. Trust me, that's not good at all. That means no one can download any more new FF7 content from them, ever. We all agree, this person is so talented, and the only one capable of making such wonderful FF7 content. And I'm positive we all agree that we don't want their site to be forever closed with no chance at all to download any great new items from them. No offense, but just because you want one item from them for free, you will be punishing everyone when their site closes. This is one site where I actually don't mind buying their items at all. They are excellent quality, and something you can't find anywhere else. You can tell this person strives really hard for quality and is kind enough to even share these items with us when they don't have to. Obviously, this person isn't in it for the money, or they wouldn't threaten to close their site. They just want a little appreciation and respect for their hard work to please us, and I think they deserve it x100. We shouldn't put these items in the Booty. I don't want there site to close with no chance of ever downloading any fantastic new FF7 items from them. And they seriously will close their site and never share again. I don't want one person to ruin it for everyone. That would be a huge tragedy. I can tell from your posts you love this person's stuff and you don't want their site to close. So for the love of FF7 and all the Simmers who love it, please don't put their items in the Booty!!!

[Emily]

Many thanks for the reply, Captain, and some good advice.
I'll try sending them an e-mail, the main reason I submitted a request first is because the owner of the site had taken down all their content once before, and I do not wish to upset them into taking it down again. It's very hard to find good meshers who are willing to take up a request for something, an item that would prove very popular or that is very hard to obtain.
If the site owner fails to understand the message I put across, and fails to understand further if I breif them again, I'll let you know.
If all else fails, I'll get a subscription and submit some of the content to the Booty once I get my online payment working again.

Hey, guys. Please hear me out. Seriously, I don't think it's a good idea to submit content from Silver Wind. If the site owner sees their content posted on the Booty, they WILL close down their site and take all downloads away. Trust me, that's not good at all. That means no one can download any more new FF7 content from them, ever. We all agree, this person is so talented, and the only one capable of making such wonderful FF7 content. And I'm positive we all agree that we don't want their site to be forever closed with no chance at all to download any great new items from them. No offense, but just because you want one item from them for free, you will be punishing everyone when their site closes. This is one site where I actually don't mind buying their items at all. They are excellent quality, and something you can't find anywhere else. You can tell this person strives really hard for quality and is kind enough to even share these items with us when they don't have to. Obviously, this person isn't in it for the money, or they wouldn't threaten to close their site. They just want a little appreciation and respect for their hard work to please us, and I think they deserve it x100. We shouldn't put these items in the Booty. I don't want there site to close with no chance of ever downloading any fantastic new FF7 items from them. And they seriously will close their site and never share again. I don't want one person to ruin it for everyone. That would be a huge tragedy. I can tell from your posts you love this person's stuff and you don't want their site to close. So for the love of FF7 and all the Simmers who love it, please don't put their items in the Booty!!!

Are you the site owner or something? You seem to care more about this than a normal person wouild.
 Nemenor's one donation file is in the booty and he does a lot more for the community. If the booty staff get a payfile it goes in the booty they don't care who made it.
If this person wasn't in it for the money they would just ask for donations. Myself and many other simmers happily donate to many free sites without getting anything in return. and they get by.

[Pirate Panda]

Are you the site owner or something? You seem to care more about this than a normal person wouild.
 Nemenor's one donation file is in the booty and he does a lot more for the community. If the booty staff get a payfile it goes in the booty they don't care who made it.
If this person wasn't in it for the money they would just ask for donations. Myself and many other simmers happily donate to many free sites without getting anything in return. and they get by.
[/quote]

No, I'm not the site owner, but I do love FF7, and this person makes my Sims game wonderful. All FF7 fans can agree on that. And I do know for a fact that the owner will definitely close the site if their items are uploaded to the Booty. If that happens, we'll never be able to download new creations from their site in the future. This is the best and only site that is actively creating new FF7 meshes and items on a regular basis. The new items will never be released if any items are found in the Booty. For someone to request even one free item will ruin it for everyone.

[Emily]

No, I'm not the site owner, but I do love FF7, and this person makes my Sims game wonderful. All FF7 fans can agree on that. And I do know for a fact that the owner will definitely close the site if their items are uploaded to the Booty. If that happens, we'll never be able to download new creations from their site in the future. This is the best and only site that is actively creating new FF7 meshes and items on a regular basis. The new items will never be released if any items are found in the Booty. For someone to request even one free item will ruin it for everyone.

We don't put free items in the booty. It's very hypocritical if you're using the booty and you're okay with certain sites having items in the booty but not with your favourite sites. A pay site is a pay site. The whole point of this website is to destroy pay sites not just to host their files here for people to use for free. If hosting the files here would mean that the site was closed most people would see it as a victory.

[Pirate Panda]

No, I'm not the site owner, but I do love FF7, and this person makes my Sims game wonderful. All FF7 fans can agree on that. And I do know for a fact that the owner will definitely close the site if their items are uploaded to the Booty. If that happens, we'll never be able to download new creations from their site in the future. This is the best and only site that is actively creating new FF7 meshes and items on a regular basis. The new items will never be released if any items are found in the Booty. For someone to request even one free item will ruin it for everyone.

We don't put free items in the booty. It's very hypocritical if you're using the booty and you're okay with certain sites having items in the booty but not with your favourite sites. A pay site is a pay site. The whole point of this website is to destroy pay sites not just to host their files here for people to use for free. If hosting the files here would mean that the site was closed most people would see it as a victory.

I meant if they request the donation item to be free in the Booty, not put a free item in the Booty. And I never said I was okay with having any items from any site in the Booty, so I'm not a hypocrite. I understand that this site aims to destroy paysites. That's why I'm requesting to not put this sites items in the Booty. This is a site we don't want destroyed. Look, even the person that requested the item to be put on the Booty doesn't want the site destroyed! Every situation is different, and therefore must be approached in different ways. To post this site's items in the Booty is the completely wrong approach, and will have a terrible outcome that punishes everyone, even the innocent people with no connection to PMBD.

[glasscigarette]

Actually, you are being a hypocrite. You presumably joined this site because you want to see paysites destroyed, because that's the only reason anyone joins here unless they are a troll or doing some sort of...research. And now you are saying that this paysite has the right to remain pay just because they make stuff that you like, and because the site owner will react with some sort of indignant pettiness if the big, bad pirates dare to defile their work by making it available to as many people as possible? Uh-uh. No. Nope, não, nein. That flies in the face of everything we stand for. Paysites are violating the EULA and have absolutely no standing for their behavior. You clearly don't understand our mission here, or know us at all. Here's a brief introduction: we don't take threats, and we don't take excuses.

If the creator's concern is artistic rather than financial, perhaps they should be free already. Most educated downloaders have more respect for free creators than pay creators, anyway, regardless of the content of their work. And, there are plenty of options for creators who want to stay free but require help paying for hosting services and the like. Just talk to the Wicked Nouk Family. Or, submit content to MTS2, if for some reason running a free site is still too difficult (which it should not be). Either option would undoubtedly be in their own interests, actually, since I'd never even heard of this content until someone requested it here. Not only would they have little or no trouble running the site for free, if they so chose, but they would actually end up getting a lot more exposure than they currently have. What artist doesn't want that? Unless, of course, they really are in it for the money, on some level.

If this site is truly as impressive as people are claiming, then they would have no problem staying free by working within the wonderful pro-free community that has developed over the past few years, or even just by requesting donations from their users rather than extorting money out of people. Options exist. Pretending that they don't doesn't make it so.

I honestly do not buy the idea that this creator is motivated by something other than money, unless they honestly have no knowledge of Nouk and other great resources out there. In that case, if you really want to protect the site, consider educating them about their options rather than coming to pirate HQ and asking us not to act like pirates. The only reason that this site isn't on the booty already, I assume, is that interest and demand is not high enough.

Our motivations aren't just fueled by a desire to get stuff for free. We have the EULA behind us, and the destruction of paysites is our goal. If this site goes down because we present its content as it should have been presented in the first place (free for all), then that is a victory. Yes, it would be a shame if the creator gave up her craft as a result, but that would be their own doing, not ours. Please, learn the facts.

[Pirate Panda]

Actually, you are being a hypocrite. You presumably joined this site because you want to see paysites destroyed, because that's the only reason anyone joins here unless they are a troll or doing some sort of...research. And now you are saying that this paysite has the right to remain pay just because they make stuff that you like, and because the site owner will react with some sort of indignant pettiness if the big, bad pirates dare to defile their work by making it available to as many people as possible? Uh-uh. No. Nope, não, nein. That flies in the face of everything we stand for. Paysites are violating the EULA and have absolutely no standing for their behavior. You clearly don't understand our mission here, or know us at all. Here's a brief introduction: we don't take threats, and we don't take excuses.

If the creator's concern is artistic rather than financial, perhaps they should be free already. Most educated downloaders have more respect for free creators than pay creators, anyway, regardless of the content of their work. And, there are plenty of options for creators who want to stay free but require help paying for hosting services and the like. Just talk to the Wicked Nouk Family. Or, submit content to MTS2, if for some reason running a free site is still too difficult (which it should not be). Either option would undoubtedly be in their own interests, actually, since I'd never even heard of this content until someone requested it here. Not only would they have little or no trouble running the site for free, if they so chose, but they would actually end up getting a lot more exposure than they currently have. What artist doesn't want that? Unless, of course, they really are in it for the money, on some level.

If this site is truly as impressive as people are claiming, then they would have no problem staying free by working within the wonderful pro-free community that has developed over the past few years, or even just by requesting donations from their users rather than extorting money out of people. Options exist. Pretending that they don't doesn't make it so.

I honestly do not buy the idea that this creator is motivated by something other than money, unless they honestly have no knowledge of Nouk and other great resources out there. In that case, if you really want to protect the site, consider educating them about their options rather than coming to pirate HQ and asking us not to act like pirates. The only reason that this site isn't on the booty already, I assume, is that interest and demand is not high enough.

Our motivations aren't just fueled by a desire to get stuff for free. We have the EULA behind us, and the destruction of paysites is our goal. If this site goes down because we present its content as it should have been presented in the first place (free for all), then that is a victory. Yes, it would be a shame if the creator gave up her craft as a result, but that would be their own doing, not ours. Please, learn the facts.

I didn't come here to attack the Pirates, and I never said I had anything against paysites, so I'm not a hypocrite. I try to see thing from both sides. Even the person who made the request doesn't want the site destroyed. Many innocent people would suffer because one person donates to the Booty, and I'm trying to prevent that. That's why I'm asking that no one donates these items to the Booty. No one will get any new items at all if the site closes. And this stuff is essential for a great FF7 Sims game. It's not just some dress that you can ask yourself, "could I do without this?". I actually do know a lot about your site because I try to understand things from everyone's point of view. And I know you don't just destroy paysites. You also liberate them. But if someone shares this site's items, we won't get a second chance, because this is our second chance. So I have to ask you this. Who is the real person being greedy and selfish here? If one person doesn't want to pay for an item, they ruin it for everyone. There are other options. The site doesn't have to be destroyed.

[squall]

when a site is really good and free, they will get donations!
don't you see modthesims or insimenator? both are wonderful sites and completely free, and they're alive!
and it's not because this site's itens is going to the booty it means that the owner will lose money!
I have some itens in my download folder that i would never pay for. if weren't the booty, I wouldn't have it, so the site wouldn't earn money at all
you must keep one thing in mind: it's not because someone has downloaded a pay item from the booty, it means that this person would pay for this item if it's weren't free

[Hecubus]

I have split off the rant from the booty shopping list. That post needs to stay pretty clean and clear so the booty staff knows what to go shopping for. Eventually, this will get moved to ARR ...meanwhile, have at.

[Pirate Panda]

when a site is really good and free, they will get donations!
don't you see modthesims or insimenator? both are wonderful sites and completely free, and they're alive!
and it's not because this site's itens is going to the booty it means that the owner will lose money!
I have some itens in my download folder that i would never pay for. if weren't the booty, I wouldn't have it, so the site wouldn't earn money at all
you must keep one thing in mind: it's not because someone has downloaded a pay item from the booty, it means that this person would pay for this item if it's weren't free

I understand, squall. This site is really good, and it's understandable that people want the items. You say good, free sites are alive with donations, and I'm sure FF fans would rather have a chance of this site being saved than being destroyed. So we shouldn't put the site's items in the Booty and cause it to close down. We won't get another chance if this site closes again.

[Ash Redfern]

Hecubus here, actually - apologies to Ash for using his post for my comments:

I have split off the rant from the booty shopping list. That post needs to stay pretty clean and clear so the booty staff knows what to go shopping for. Eventually, this will get moved to ARR ...meanwhile, have at.

Not a problem. Topic moved.

[glasscigarette]

You're right. This site doesn't have to be destroyed. In your own words, it can be liberated. But if the site owner were to choose to close their site just because they were pissed off about people sharing their content, that would not be anyone's decision, or anyone's fault, but their own. That is something that we can't control. If someone were to share this site's content with PMBD and it were added to the booty, the next step would be in the site owner's hands, not our own. They are breaking their own word by violating the EULA, which they had to read when they installed the game on their own computer. I consider that wrong.

On a personal level, I don't particularly care what happens to this site. Don't consider me heartless, I just don't have a burning desire to support it, and it certainly doesn't create a large enough blip on my radar for me to be terribly concerned about its effect on the community. It's doesn't have the enormous following of TSR or the drooling fangirls of Peggy, after all. Their stuff is decent, and I'm sure they work hard on it. That is to be respected, and I seriously doubt that they are bad people (a bad person? I'm not sure how many creators are involved). I have no respect, however, for a site that feels it has the right to break the laws of the EULA just because they can; they do not have to, after all. As you and I have both acknowledged, there are options for site owners who need a little assistance in keeping a site running. And, if they are for some reason reliant on the income from the site for something other than site maintenance, it might be a good idea for them to find a hobby that can bring in income legally. This is an issue of principle: I do not believe that any site has the right to charge for content, no exceptions. Most people here feel the same.

I think it would be a shame for the site to close its doors forever and stop sharing content, and not just because there are obviously people out there that really like it. But, I also think it's a shame that yet another creator thinks they have the right to charge for content. They do not. They would almost certainly be welcomed with open arms into the free-site community if they chose to take that route, whereas threatening to close out of some sort of bitterness will gain them only our disdain. It doesn't come across as righteous indignation in the slightest, but instead as whiny foot-stamping.

You seem relatively reasonable. You don't seem like a troll, in any case. I appreciate your desire to see both sides of the issue, but in this case there really is only one side: the site owner does not have to charge for content, with the options available to him/her, but he/she does it anyway. As such, it would appear that he/she is doing so for commercial gain, and this is in blatant violation of the EULA, which he/she agreed to. I'm sure that there may be other circumstances, but quite frankly that is a moot point. The creator has options and is not using them. If that is for anything other than a desire to make some cash, then that is pure laziness. And if it is out of greed, which is what appearances imply to an outside observer, then his/her actions are simply breaking the rules that were agreed to in the first place. It's as simple as that.

I have not always been militantly anti-paysite. My opinions have always been on the side of the pirates (not just because of the EULA, but because I feel free sites are far more beneficial to the CC community as a whole), but I never used to get involved in the debate, or make my opinion widely known. I simply grew disgusted with the behavior of some of the larger and more morally corrupt sites out there. And as I've read and researched more, and gotten to know more members of the community (most of whom are anti-paysite, but some of whom are relatively ambivalent), my opinions have solidified. You are not the only one who looks at both sides of the issue, so please don't pat yourself on the back too much (and don't consider that an attack of some kind, because I respect an open-mind, but I also respect taking a stand for your beliefs).

With that said, I'm not sure if the Shopping List is the best place to continue this conversation (someone correct me if I'm wrong; I know the topic came up here and all, but you'll get a lot more discussion and attention elsewhere, and this no longer has a whole lot to do with the List).

EDIT: Hec moved it just as I posted it...thankies.

EDIT AGAIN: Ash moved it, so thankies to Ash. So in that case, I guess, thanks for nothin' Hec!

[tIIsuggas]

Pirate Panda, if you care so much for the site, why not ask them to go free, and you donate enough money to keep the site running.  You are obviously quite passionate about keeping the content available.

I'm sure that if the site is as loved as you say, the fans wouldn't hesitate to donate if there was any chance the site might close.  Files do not have to be exchanged for money.

Take the Wicked Nouk Family of sites for instance.  They are well loved and respected, they needed donations to keep afloat and they got them within days.  They are all 100% free.  The same goes for SublimeSims site.

There is no excuse for selling Sims 2 files.

[calalily]

EDIT: Hec moved it just as I posted it...thankies.

Ash moved it. 

Pirate Panda, if you care so much for the site, why not ask them to go free, and you donate enough money to keep the site running.  You are obviously quite passionate about keeping the content available.

Yeah, that's a good solution.  You donate enough money that the owner is satisfied with, and will have the whole site free.  Otherwise, one backward step would have *every single* paysite getting their fans to beg off for the same reason, and paysites would prosper unchecked.

[dorquemada]

This is one site where I actually don't mind buying their items at all.

Dude, you are being hypocritical here. See, PMBD wants all paysites dishonored and vanquished - because the practice itself is lowly and shameful - and the movement has nothing to do with seller's personality. And  - all does not mean "All but run by nice people I like".