TREZILLAH!!! How could you do this to me???

[Minolia]

OK so if a charity gives away free donuts to people when they come in and donate that illegal?

Dont think so.

This site is fully of people who do not have the skills to reason. You will never shut down our site or other sites stop trying and stop complaining about paysites... get over it.. get a life.

If a charity only gives donuts to people giving them money then they're selling them. Which with the proper documentation is not illegal but it's not a donation. If you know you'll get something in return - it's a sale.

And while you may well have made your own meshes the second you put them into .package files they became bound by the EULA and selling them does become illegal.

As for lack of reasoning skills you dredged up a topic that had nothing to do with what you wanted to say and you seemingly claim your biggest market is kids and teens who in your opinion expect something for their money.

Using my reasoning most kids and teens don't have credit cards or paypal accounts so aren't you chasing after the wrong demographic.

[mando]

We are doing nothing bad.. I dont see what the problem is....We are not technically selling it.  Legally it isnot a sale.. it is  gift.  That would hold up in  court of law...

Hon, that would not hold up in a court of law, trust me. I'd love to see you give it a go though, let me know when the trial starts.

[Broomhilda]

We are doing nothing bad.. I dont see what the problem is....We are not technically selling it.  Legally it isnot a sale.. it is  gift.  That would hold up in  court of law...

OH MY GOD,, I can't stop laughing. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
You are just "giving" something EA owns away in exchange for money. :lol:  :lol:

[Jared]

Using my reasoning most kids and teens don't have credit cards or paypal accounts so aren't you chasing after the wrong demographic.[/quote]

Dont twist my words... i did not say we aim for kids... i said the majority of players of the game are kids and teens

[Jared]

We are doing nothing bad.. I dont see what the problem is....We are not technically selling it.  Legally it isnot a sale.. it is  gift.  That would hold up in  court of law...

Hon, that would not hold up in a court of law, trust me. I'd love to see you give it a go though, let me know when the trial starts.

Yes it would tecnically........ They donate and they have a  chance to downlaod free gifts..... they dont have to....they are not buying it, Its that simple.

[Minolia]

Using my reasoning most kids and teens don't have credit cards or paypal accounts so aren't you chasing after the wrong demographic.

Dont twist my words... i did not say we aim for kids... i said the majority of players of the game are kids and teens

I'm not twisting your words one of the first thing you said was that kids and teens won't "donate" unless they get something in return. I was just replying to your argument.

[keirra]

 i said the majority of players of the game are kids and teens

I would have to disagree with that statement.

[Jared]

Yes, We are not aiming for tehm... they are the people who buy that game and play it.. we cant aim for people who dont play the game

[mando]

Yes it would tecnically........ They donate and they have a  chance to downlaod free gifts..... they dont have to....they are not buying it, Its that simple.

There seems to be a disconnect here, maybe you don't understand how finance works. For example, I pay Person A a small sum of cash, Person A then gives me something in return. That is a sale, if you had to pay money to receive it, it was not free. It doesn't matter if the person downloads it or not, if they had to pay money to see or obtain the item it is a sale.

As for your early statement about not targetting kids, you wrote:

Do you really think Kids and Teens would give the little money they have to a site for nothing or a shirt? What world are you living in?

This strongly implies that the money you receive comes from kids and teens, or that they are the only ones who would buy from you. Best to be careful when writing if that is not what you meant.

[Jojoba]

Hmm interesting....

This site is fully of people who do not have the skills to reason

I have reasoning skills!    Well I used to...dont really get a chance to use them here, as most people who come with the opposite viewpoint to my own are just irritating trolls...and I hate trolls. >.<

But you are very untrollish Jared, which is a nice change  

Erm you said earlier that your site only has 3 pay items; thats a very small amount to others and is just a few steps away from going free..why dont you try it? Try going free for a month, or something like that, still accept donations - but donations that do not give content in return.

[Ensign EO]

"They donate and they have a chance to downlaod free gifts"
"to downlaod free gifts"
"free gifts"

Free gifts?  What is your definition of "gift"?

I'm assuming that the downloads are in a forum?  And that when a person "donates", they get access to a "donators" section?  Is this like TSR?

You aren't paying for the files, you're paying to keep the site alive!  You don't have to download any of the stuff that can only be downloaded if one has a subscription.  You can just donate and continue enjoying the free things, but remember you always have the chance to download your "free gifts"!

As long as the items are being held hostage until a person who wants to download the item kicks money your way, you are still a paysite.  No matter how you decide to set up your site, subscription or not--it's still a paysite as long as money is required to leave a person's hands for an item.

I said it twice, just in case.  But I have a feeling it's not enough.

[Hecubus]

JARED:

There is ONE principle in action here: EA explicity forbids the the sale of custom content. And if I can't get an item unless I pay for it, that is a sale - no matter WHAT you call it.


There are no valid comparisons unless it's someone selling something that's not legally theirs. EA owns the content. Therefore, they don't want YOU to profit from it. Even if the money goes to supporting the site, there is profit in having an item only available for sale.

Simple.

Now you can have all the donation buttons in the world out there...ask for support as you see fit. That's cool. MTS2, Wicked, Parsimonious, etc...all do this.

They sell nothing.

Because EA says NO.

[scribble]

Im really for free sites.  But when the discussion here comes to EA and the EULA, things sometimes tend to be ...a little onesided. What about the other part, the rest of  the EULA? My english are so bad so it´s  easier for  me to post quotations:


kathy (insem):
"I am completely bored with all this paysite drama now. I don't pay for it and won't pay for it however this has gotten completely out of hand. Someone, Dr Pixel I believe, pointed out that anyone who has modified the game has broken the EULA and this is true. So in short all sites, free and pay, are screwed. As much as I love or loved this community the last 6 months or so has caused nothing but grief for many people and have caused them to say to hell with this community and for what? Because someone has a pay file? Boo-freaking-hoo. I support free sites, I always have and always will but with this crusade continuing as it is we are pushing a disrespect for all creators, whether they be for free or for pay, and it has become sickening".

Dr pixel:
"Another point I wanted to bring up is this -

Everybody is fond of quoting the part of the Eula which says you can't sell custom content for the game, which it does in fact say. Although to be honest, it would be difficult to prove, legally, that most paysites are in fact selling the "content" as opposed to simply selling access to the site, except those few sites that do charge by the piece.

However, everyone convieniently ignores the part of the EULA that says you are not allowed to "disassemble" or "reverse engineer" the game contents.

Simply put, this means you can't pick-apart the game files in a hex-=editor or by other means, to see how they are put together. Without doing this, NONE of the game editing tools like SimPE or any of the mesh import/export tools would be possible.

Now, like paysites, this is an area that Maxis/EA chooses to look the other way on - but, the truth is that the vast majority of Sims2 sites, whether free, or pay, are in violation of the EULA in one way or another.

The only sites that are strictly in compliance would be ones that offered content made using ONLY the Maxis supplied editing tools - meaning clothing, makeup, and hair "skins" for use on original Maxis meshes ONLY (no custom body/hair/accessory meshes), Custom lots using ONLY Maxis made objects (not even user-made recolors of Maxis objects, let alone objects with user-made meshes), and custom walls/floors made using Maxis HomeCrafter.

Hacked objects? Custom Careers? New animations? No way! Almost everything you all love to download is in violation of the EULA.

Remember that when you ask Maxis to enforce their EULA..."




In many ways maybe it´s more decent to say like Marhis, insem.
"Who cares about EA rights? I care about my rights, that are not being mocked and conned".



http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=48575&highlight=PAYSITE+THREAD&page=5

[calalily]

I personally don't bother to engage in discussion or debate at insimenator, as they majorly revise things days, weeks, or months afterwards, and the mods have different opinions on what is allowed at any one time.  I debated with a mod about something, and for whatever reason about 2 weeks later it was deleted by another mod as off topic.  Not to mention that their policy seems to change every week or so, and how they feel about it.  Say what you like about s2c, but at least the policy stays consistent.

As far as the EULA, I don't see EA doing a damn thing other than stopping paysites, if they ever do that.  They're not going to knock ALL the peices of the board like someone selling up to TSR.  And since I doubt there are consistent complaints to the legal department, I don't see why they would attack modders (with ordinary old mods, not controversial ones) or Sim pe.  

As far as the disrespect to creators - I just plain old disagree.  No one has yet attacked Sims 2 Graveyard for their "disrespect" - because there's some modicum of a clue that maybe people want those files.  If the creator wanted them there, they would have paid for it.  But no, because those creators are missing, or gone, apparently it's fine to "disrespect" their wishes.

[Pescado]

However, everyone convieniently ignores the part of the EULA that says you are not allowed to "disassemble" or "reverse engineer" the game contents.

The sections on "dissembly" and "reverse engineering" refer to "the Tool", meaning you're not supposed to break the game down into sourcecode (and then attempt to peddle it). There is no mention of how that line applies to "the materials". It's not really relevant to the creation of thingies.