TSR: IN UR COMPUTER, VIRUSIN' UR FILES!

[dstar]

I think there needs to be a balance of sites like Sims3Central/Luina Sims, WNF, and the Sailfinsims Network that support and promote the Free Community and Free Creators, and people who critique Paysites like PMBD and Sims Cave. If there is not any criticism- people won't see the difference- but it has to be true criticism- people don't need to hear about Thomas's extramarital affairs and two homes, or that Atwa and DOT are crazy- keep it focused on critiquing their illegal - unprofessional actions towards EA and the Sims Community as a whole- and on the poor quality of the work produced by many pay artists.

[CatOfWar]

Have to disagree on a small point.  Thomas' two homes (and recent vacations) show that he has plenty of money, undermining his recent claim that he needs donations for future improvements to the TSR tool.  TSR paid two (just two) programmers to work on it, probably contract work, right?  Considering how much money TSR rakes in from subscriptions, how much they pay their many FAs (several hundred a month), and how luxuriously Thomas lives, its absurd and greedy to ask for donations for stuff they haven't even done yet.  I think his living expenses are relevant in that respect.

[dstar]

Living expenses possibly- and the same goes for FA's former FA's and  other executives, however; I think that bashing people's personal lives should be off limits in terms of certain things- it is one thing to play down and dirty when it is information relevant to the cause lie personal financials and where the money from your paysite is going   but who /Rose/Peggy/Openhouse Jack/Atwa/Thomas/DOT/Johan/Steve is yoinking- is not  relevant to the paysite debate and those comments have been made here before by people 

It is one thing to say stuff like that if you are in a personal chat but - sorry to be blunt here but that is something I don't even want to think about in regards to anyone in the Sims Community or any other community, friend or foe. I don't give a damn who is sleeping with who- if I want to know that I will read People Magazine or watch a soap opera.

[ShanOw]

The issue is that not many people are going to be able to stick by the "all business" approach to fighting paysites. PMBD is infamous for nitpicking, fighting and namecalling and there are thousands of threads full of it - a fresh start will be near impossible for many of the veterans (not that many are still around)

[Krumpet]

I just registered in order to offer my perspective on the stupid secrets issue.  First off, I've been lurking here for years.  I arrived via a booty reference at MTS, and was initially enticed by the booty until discovering that paysite crap is crap.  I've played the Sims since its first inception, and was registered during that primitive era at TSR, but was turned off by the endless iterations of recolored doodads.  From lurking at PMBD I learned of MATY and also SimSecrets.  I hated MATY at first, but in time, as I got used to Pescado here, I grokked MATY, and now I'm mostly okay with it.  SimSecrets, however, is a waste of time, and I have never understood anyone's fascination with it.  It's like junior high.

As far as 12s go, 12s do what they will, and it's not going to be worthwhile trying to figure out how best to deal with them.  Most will not actually read the phorum, and the ones who do will either stop or continue.  It's not really your problem. 

On the matter of selling free sites, free sites sell themselves, duh.  Honestly.  Perhaps the most useful thing to direct traffic to free sites would be a simple list page listing all free sites, and then to ensure that it will come up high in searches.  There's no need to be nice, to woo, to look pretty, etc.

The issue raised at StupidSecrets concerning ARRing is dumb, and was obviously written by a geezer.  12s and their slightly elder counterparts download bootleg movies like nobody's business, and they obviously do not give a whit about honest to goodness piracy.  To suppose that it is a negative attribute for PMBDers to ARR softwares is mistaken. 

This whole, but-how-do-the-community-leaders-think-of-us issue is a red herring.  Who cares?  They think what they think.  You do what you do.  If there is worth, there will be overlap.  Fretting about image is some corporate, manipulative, excess of time issue.  You don't want a perky image, you want hits.  If TSR Atrocities! and More TSR Atrocities! doesn't convince someone of the badness of TSR, then that person is not going to be convinced by perky pirate parrots.

I admit to being completely pulled in by descriptions of the evil TSR dramas here at PMBD--so soap-operatic, you know--and the PMBD/coconut vitriol concerning the matter hardened my own resolve (not that I ever "donated" to paysites, mind you).  In other words: more jokes about Dot's shape and more treating Johan like a stooge, please.

If this had been a nicey-nice happy flower place, I would not have lurked happily for so long.  Rather, I would have quit reading.

Keep on keepin' on, pirates.

[ShanOw]

Krumpet; the thing you are missing is that this site is not supposed to be a "soap-operatic... vitriol;" It is meant to be about destroying paysites - hence the name: PAYSITES MUST BE DESTROYED (.org)

[Krumpet]

Shanow: what I meant by being pulled in by the soap-operatic vitriol was that it keep me paying attention, more so than happy shiny bangles, kindness and butterflies.  As in, I don't think there's a need to nice-ify the peeps because there is something already attractive about their existing personalities.  Does that make more sense?

EDIT: Keeping people reading assists in destroying the paysites by building free site sympathies.  Obvs.

[ShanOw]

I admit that the balance of fun that you describe is extremely beneficial to the cause but the lack of balance between entertainment and intellegence is what has caused all of the stirring that is happening. Many people here have very poor judgement as to when to be serious or when to be a drama whore... Building freesite sympathies is the same as building an image - which is again, the whole damn problem.

[dstar]

One,  the site is not about the drama it is about closing down paysites or getting them to go free. The issue itself should keep you following shit here because it effects you, your personal accounts, and how you play your game.


Free Sites actually do not promote themselves- they are essentially banned at pay forums like TSR and on the official EA Sims Sites because  of " Non Pg-13 Content and Hacks" or rather because EA reps are buddy buddy with paysite owners. Have you been to any of the Sims Finds sites like Spring4Sims, Daily Finds, Sims 3 Standard, or My Sims 3 Blog lately- 3:4 finds on those sites are pay content- from pay sites- or free content- from paysites (it doesn't really matter paysite content is paysite content cause they can make it pay or donation at any point). When the main finds sites- the finds sites that are supported on the official forums are promoting pay content, and the official forums are promoting pay content- Free Sites don't get promoted period.

 A 12 year old whose first experience is the fansite (paysite) listing on the Sims 1, 2, or 3 official EA sites is not going to go to free sites because essentially the only free content sites  on there are Parsimonious and Simply Styling both of whom have content that plays to tastes not held by the average 12 year old BBS member. They will join TSR and continue to pay Peggy and Rose for utterly craptastic shit - unless they are made aware that there is good free stuff from truly free sites out there and they are not getting that message.


As per why we should not promote Arring content from EA on this site,  it is wrong, it is illegal we should not be Arring content  and  12's should not be either, just like they shouldn't be drinking, drugging, or having sex. As adults or nearly so - we should be setting a good example for younger community members by not discussing illegally obtained software and content. We don't tell them to go out and buy six ounces of pot here- we shouldn't tell them to Arr their Sims 3 game cause the game is shit, or to go to MATY to get their Store shit either.
Yes this is an adult site where they should not be- but many of them are here- which means being careful what we say around here. For another thing- paysite trolls hang out here all the time and in the past they have taken shit that people on this site have said including some of the petty arguments between community members and used it against us. Hence the statement made by a Maxoid   on the BBS or TSR FA on their forum  (forgot which one) that all Pirates must arr their games- even though the " Show us yer Games" thread in Sharkbait demonstrates otherwise. They got that idea because someone talked about Arring a Game on here and a troll just happened to be here. That is why shit like that should not be promoted here period- i don't care if every 12 year old on the planet has a Pirate Bay Account and 12,000 illegal CD's downloaded into their ITunes accounts.


If we hate TS3 that much as a group - we should tell them to not get it at all or to buy it used on EBay or at Gamestop or at any one of the half dozen outlets that sell used videogames legally - not telling them to steal shit from the people that have the right to charge for it. This way EA still doesn't get their money for a crap game- and people are not encouraging illegal activity.

It has nothing to do with being an old fogie- it has to do with not promoting behavior that will land anyone in jail.. It means being better than the asshats at TSR who have openly admitted stealing programs like Photoshop, Milkshape, and their Sims Games. If we don't want to fucking be compared to the enemy we should not act like them. Which means not being fake or hypocritical- and it is hypocritical to say well you can't steal shit from the free community, or arr your games- but we're going to go download a torrented Sims game right now which some people have done.

If people weren't doing that shit so openly in the Sim Community as a whole than the 12's probably would not view it as acceptable - there is a difference between sharing content created with EA's tools that EA says DO NOT SELL and File Share is okay  and stealing the software and content sold by EA themselves -  A big fuckin difference like jail time and a 3 million dollar fine (at least that is the going average for music piracy )

[ShanOw]

Dstar; well said

I also see that if someone here hates Sims 3 or EA so much that they want to promote illegal activities to steal their pixels, then why the hell are you a member of a site designed to support their legal rights!?

Quickly back to the freesite comment about promoting themselves; creating a list is simply not feasable. A good friend of mine attempted to create an alphabetized wiki of every single free Sims site. She got to about 'M' when she gave up; having listed only around 1400 sites. The idea of a directory for the Sims is good, but the amount of work in making it content searchable and filterable is astronomical. The closest thing I have ever been able to get is SimSearch.

[mustluvcatz]

Well said, dee.  

Since dee already said most of what I would've said (what I was trying to say in between kids interrupting me and pushing buttons on the phone) the only thing I have to say now is this:
Krumpet, while I applaud you for posting an intelligent and fairly well thought out post, I'm left wondering how old you are. The whole "geezer" thing, and the way you seem to think there's nothing wrong with pirating software. It IS wrong and getting caught has serious consequences- your way of thinking is rather 12.
If you really think that pirating software is alright- check out the "Show us your games" thread here. You'll see that most (if not all) of the established members here have paid for their games. The most "pirated" thing asked about is a no-cd crack. And that's only to protect one's computer since EA thinks it's alright to put undisclosed programs on their discs. I use a no-cd crack. I don't want SuckyROM on my computer.
This site isn't about pirating software at all. It's not even about the booty. (Meh. Sucky pay-site stuff is still sucky no matter where or how you get it.) And being known for pirating software IS a negative attribute.

[SnarkyShark]

Thanks for an excellent post, Krumpet.

Perhaps the most useful thing to direct traffic to free sites would be a simple list page listing all free sites, and then to ensure that it will come up high in searches.

Why don't we have one of these?

If TSR Atrocities! and More TSR Atrocities! doesn't convince someone of the badness of TSR, then that person is not going to be convinced by perky pirate parrots.

I'd guess we would have the consolation of politely directing all those Chaz fans to his Lady GaGa. (unless we take kenmtl up on his offer and give him the job).


ShanOw, if a more civil, business like phorum is what you're after, how are these statements -

PMBD is infamous for nitpicking, fighting and namecalling and there are thousands of threads full of it - a fresh start will be near impossible for many of the veterans (not that many are still around)

Many people here have very poor judgement as to when to be serious or when to be a drama whore.

- going to help the cause?

[dstar]

We do it is my Freesite Links Thread in Sharkbait- which I have not updated because I have been a little busy getting my Free Finds site going - and learning to mesh, and finding a real job, and creating stuff, and doing my moderator duties at Sailfinsims, and moderating my LJ communities, and playing my games and having a life outside my computer and applying for graduate school, and sleep and eating, and bathing, and feeding my cat- did I get everything. Oh yeah  and dealing with family shit to. I will get right on updating the links list ASAP

[SnarkyShark]

What page? Because I can't find it.

[ShanOw]

ShanOw, if a more civil, business like phorum is what you're after, how are these statements -
*insert quotes*
- going to help the cause?

Possibly in the same way my quotes are; by keeping things interesting (Ok, fine: I admit that this is a stupid justification to stupid comments, but I'm not in the mood)

Perhaps the most useful thing to direct traffic to free sites would be a simple list page listing all free sites, and then to ensure that it will come up high in searches.

Why don't we have one of these?

We have dozens of these; but as Dstar has stated they can be time consuming - other things come up, people lose interest etc. and they remain unfinished or never updated.

_________
Edit for Snarky: http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2515.0.html