TSR Sharing your infomation!

[calalily]

We clearly have different opinions on who's responsible for sharing the information. Agree to disagree?

Nope. I'm definately right.

See when i read "TSR is sharing your PayPal information" i thought you meant they were sharing their own members information, obtained from their own paypal account.
Is that just me then? Anyway, that was what i objected to. If you don't mean that then i will drop this, i will even let you set the final score

Both - they shared details in a reciprocal manner - otherwise what would be the point of publishing information if the person had already been banned from TSR? To gloat - is this their higher motive?

They're not among friends - they're at work among fellow employees.

Call it whatever you want, my point still stands.[/quote]

No - because if they're not among friends then gossiping at work is uncalled for. This is my hobby - but it is their job.

So you're seriously calling that a crime now? Go ahead

Didn't say crime, but breaking a contract is illegality - the word I used.  Under the laws of contracts, you're not actually supposed to break them. And seeing as there are various privacy laws, BlackGarden has broken a law.

[macaque]

Some of this is already addressed in my previous reply and we don't seem to like monkeys repeating things here so i'll skip those.

I will admit that the phone call crack on the jassims.com thread could be interpreted as a joke.  The stuff about banning was not.  The stuff in the paypal thread was not, except for some really bad renditions of Another one bites the dust.

I can't sit here pretending to know exactly what they really meant or not meant. Surely bad things have been said, stupid ideas have been discussed.
But if you take it out of context and you don't know the people it's not so obvious what they really mean, if they were serious or not.

"New Whois Discovery" , this is beyond silly and the fact i'm the one having to tell you that says a lot about the mentality here. 
Someone here posted a real name found with whois (searched on thesimsresource.com) in the insim thread not so long ago, wouldn't that also be illegal?

why is it silly? Because BG got caught doing something wrong and you don't like it?

Linky please.

Why silly? Let's take a couple of steps back and get some perspective.
Can you imagine any place other than here where someone would call it a crime to copypaste the result of a whois lookup and be serious about it?
Here's the link:
http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2228.msg125423.html#msg125423

Here we have some more copypasted whois data by the way, right here on your own backyard
http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2228.msg125426.html#msg125426

[original_sim]

I don't see anybody's phone number in that thread.

[HeartOFire]

Actually, what I do see in the thread is an outright refusal to post the address or phone number, despite the fact it is public information.  Reading, its fundamental!  Try it.

[ValancySterling]

Why silly? Let's take a couple of steps back and get some perspective.
Can you imagine any place other than here where someone would call it a crime to copypaste the result of a whois lookup and be serious about it?
Here's the link:
http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2228.msg125423.html#msg125423

Here we have some more copypasted whois data by the way, right here on your own backyard
http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2228.msg125426.html#msg125426

In both of those cases the information is dealing with websites and website owner ship.  There are no personal details such as phone numbers, addresses, etc.  And in both of those cases, those names had been posted publically at the websites in question.  Find an instance where someone has posted personal details that weren't previously posted by the person in question from whois and wasn't bitchslapped afterwards at this site and then you may talk

Seriously, stop trying to sugar coat this.  It looks bad.  Get over it.

[Jonesi]

Quote from: macaque on Today at 12:41:40

Did it ever occur to you that coconut's interpretation on what's really going on might be a little biased?

Do you think we're getting the whole picture from coconut or could coconut just be showing us stuff that suits the agenda?

Looks like Macaque is doing what he said Coconut was doing eh.

[original_sim]

Actually, what I do see in the thread is an outright refusal to post the address or phone number, despite the fact it is public information.  Reading, its fundamental!  Try it.

Exactamundo! That's what I was getting at. What TSR did was lower than low. There was no need to post anybody's address or phone numbers because there was no intent to do anything malicious. Seems like you guys were just trying to figure out who owned something.

[Darqstar]

Darqstar owes me $10. It's quite obvious you will never see illegality as illegality. Your argument is fail if you refuse to acknowledge they ever did anything wrong.

I never agreed to the bet, I was at work!  Besides, I never would have been stupid enough to take the bet.  People like Macaque never learn.  They just keep saying the same thing over and over again, and think that because they mix the words up a bit, that we'll never figure it out and eventually go over to their side.   

However, should the ten dollars be that important to you, you are welcome to come to my place to collect it.  I'll even take you out for a beer or two! 

TSR shares personal information of it's members. The people there do this in both forum and PM.   Whether it was gotten from paypal or from it's member roster, I DO NOT CARE.  It is wrong.  It is immoral.  It is unethical.

You so rock my socks off, Palemato.   

TSR holds creations hostage. I don't want my stuff associated with that place any more.  DIRECTLY due to the personal information sharing.  Thomas told me to forget it.

That got me to thinking, so I went over to TSR and did some poking.  When you sign up for an account, they ask for some pretty personal information.   Stuff that no one would put without some assurance.  They give you an assurance too:

requested information. Please note, however, that none of the information will be transfered to other parties than TSR. The purpose of TSR having the address information is to be able to send prizes from our many upcoming competitions.

(Bolding was added by me)

TSR can't even follow their own rules.  No, I don't consider their FA's to be "TSR."  They could be considered employees of TSR, but that's different.  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see it saying, "To be able to send prizes and post in our FA forum, if we suspect you of being a pirate." 

Now it looks like the EA EULA is not the only thing the idiots at TSR are breaking.  The whois TOU is also broken.  Nice job Blackgarden.  You are a world class moron. 

I really believe that most of the FA's truly believe that their money is being unfairly taken, and thus have the right to do whatever is necessary to protect them. 

This type of devotion is usually reserved for ones family, friends, or pets.  It's hard to swallow the depths these folks will sink to in order to protect a few hundred dollars a month.   It makes me wonder what they would do if they really were making a living at this.    I'm just glad they are selling pixels and not crack. 

* We're not getting anywhere with this are we?

That's the most brilliant thing you've said so far. 

If coconut decides to forward the information to the public then coconut is responsible for that.

Were you born this stupid, or did you have to take special lessons?  Or, have you never checked out Coconut's journal?  Coconut blanked out the parts with the information.  If coconut hadn't done that, we'd be yelling at her.  She blurred it.   She did NOT share personal information. What she has done was shown us proof that TSR was sharing personal information. 

Yeah i'm saying it's out of context even if it's the full post. Things posted in private among friends is a whole other context than the coconut blog no matter how you twist it.
In private among friends you can say things without being serious and your friends would know that.

That statement is so full of fail I hardly know where to begin. First of all, there are quite a few FA's, and as former FA's have told us, they aren't all close personal friends.  And, even if they are, what's wrong is wrong.  If I share personal information about someone with my friends, that doesn't make it right.

The fact that this information has made it into the public eye shows how this was not just a conversation among friends.  And, now that they know that their information is leaking, they continue doing it. 

And wrong is wrong.  I don't care who you're with.  If I say, "God, that person pissed me off,  stealing my meshes, I'd like to smack her upside the head" with my friends, that's one thing.  If they are close friends, they will know that the threat is empty.  On the other hand, if I say, "That person stole my meshes and here is her address and phone number, we're not going to let her get away with it," that's quite another.    And you know what?  I know my friends well enough and trust them enough that were I to do such a thing, they would say, "Okay Darqstar, you crossed the line.  I understand you being upset, but what you're asking is just wrong." 

What they were doing was taking the law into their own hands.  Why? Because they know they really have no legal recourse of any kind. If they had a legal leg to stand on, you bet BlackGarden would be consulting a lawyer and preparing to sue the crap out of that woman.  If they had a legal leg to stand on, Thomas would be suing the hell out of Pescado and anyone he caught "stealing" one of his precious payfiles. But, since they don't have a legal leg to stand on, they have decided that they will be the law.  It's vigilante justice. 

And if it's all in innocent fun, then why are they posting personal information? If it was just a bunch of "good friends" having a bit of a bitch session, why all the bother with paypal information?  Why not just keep it to screen names?   The fact that they gave out personal information shows that they were doing more than just having a bitch session.  The fact that people spoke about DOS attacks and other things says it wasn't just a gripe session.  NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON came forward and said, "Okay, I understand that we're all upset, and we have a right to be, but what some folks are suggesting here goes above and beyond what is right for us to do."  Nope, all of them were all gun-ho about serving their own brand of justice.

Oh and Palemato: Thanks for reaching out, i appreciate the gesture and i believe you're a genuinely nice person.

She is a nice person and the fact that you can recognize that, gives me hope that you're faking some of this stupidity.   

I don't need to be rescued though.

We'll see.  I hope TSR is giving you something for all your troubles and again, I hope your loyalty to them doesn't come back to bite you on the ass.

[Paden]

If it does, I hope Macaque has had their rabies shots...

[giggy]

If it does, I hope Macaque has had their rabies shots...

I'm worried if he's getting raped by TSR, and actually loving it.

Syphillus is nasty

[Paden]

What can I say to that, except for, "Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!"

[disgruntledmuse]

I've said this before, but I think it's worth saying again.  In my business, we have (legitimately) used a name -- just a name -- to find someone's address, telephone number, date of birth, and SSN, as well as information about their relatives and their relatives' private information.  So someone who doesn't choose to share that information over the internet has reason to be upset if that choice is taken away from them.

Also, I know this was a few pages back, but macaque don't throw around terms you don't understand.  You seem to be making an effort to portray yourself as smart and everyone else here as stupid, but, just so you know -- defamation means publishing information that is false.  It doesn't mean posting truthful information, particularly when evidenced by actual pictures.      

[deelink]

I didn't think it was possible to roll my eyes ANY MORE than I already had, but for fucksake.     

Macaque, since you are such a Stepford wife, who thinks a little gossip between girlfriends online is a-okay, care to broaden your mind a little and realise, it's the fucking internet? So you have your knickers in a knot because your girlfriends over at TSR are being picked on by pirates, all for what you would say "a little gossip"?
Oh You don't know them like I do! They didn't mean any harm!

Don't you realise we are at war with TSR? We obtain evidence and fling it to the community through ethical discussions, and you come in here all hands a' wringing because your precious friends got busted? All of your excuses and good intentions to cover their ass is MASSIVE FAIL. Calalily handed you, Blackgarden's arse on a silver platter and you are so dense you cannot see that every argument you have given in defence, is coloured by your belief that "They are good people" while Calalily says "Doesn't fucking FLY in the world of the LAW dipshit". Do you understand the objective viewpoint from where we come from? We rely on TRUTH to educate, your little club does not withstand that since they are two bit hustlers who constantly jerk each other off in some sort of fantasy land.

I am not delusional enough to cover my friends ass if she was busted entertaining the idea of harassing someone from the community in RL. Where do you get off doing this? What are you getting out of it? TSRbot?

Your friends are liars, thieves, hypocrites and malicious assholes. And they WILL stab you in the back. And I know you won't read this post, since you are a snob who has warped ideas about this board, but hopefully you can take this and shove it up your propriety's ass.

[calalily]

Darqstar owes me $10. It's quite obvious you will never see illegality as illegality. Your argument is fail if you refuse to acknowledge they ever did anything wrong.

I never agreed to the bet, I was at work!  Besides, I never would have been stupid enough to take the bet.  People like Macaque never learn.  They just keep saying the same thing over and over again, and think that because they mix the words up a bit, that we'll never figure it out and eventually go over to their side.   

However, should the ten dollars be that important to you, you are welcome to come to my place to collect it.  I'll even take you out for a beer or two! 

If I come to your house I'm taking it out in trade.

If coconut decides to forward the information to the public then coconut is responsible for that.

Were you born this stupid, or did you have to take special lessons?  Or, have you never checked out Coconut's journal?  Coconut blanked out the parts with the information.  If coconut hadn't done that, we'd be yelling at her.  She blurred it.   She did NOT share personal information. What she has done was shown us proof that TSR was sharing personal information. 

Yep - heavily blurred so as not to do the same thing TSR did to jassims.

I've said this before, but I think it's worth saying again.  In my business, we have (legitimately) used a name -- just a name -- to find someone's address, telephone number, date of birth, and SSN, as well as information about their relatives and their relatives' private information.  So someone who doesn't choose to share that information over the internet has reason to be upset if that choice is taken away from them.

Also, I know this was a few pages back, but macaque don't throw around terms you don't understand.  You seem to be making an effort to portray yourself as smart and everyone else here as stupid, but, just so you know -- defamation means publishing information that is false.  It doesn't mean posting truthful information, particularly when evidenced by actual pictures.      

Agreed - defamation is not something that is just "Whoops - people found out I did bad things" - it has to be defamatory - ie. it has to be lies intended to make it look like you did something wrong.  That's why an employer can find out negative things from your old job, criminal records can be disclosed and all other things. If there's proof, macaque, then it's not defamatory. That's what we call "truth".

I didn't think it was possible to roll my eyes ANY MORE than I already had, but for fucksake.     

I agree - the eye rolling smilies just do not communicate the amount of eye rolling felt.  Should have something more Linda Blair style.

[Elphaba]

I really should have mentioned this before but it just occured to me. What information ahve we been given? A full name and an address. There's a lot of things can be done with a full name and an address.

I used to work for medical records for the NHS (the national health system in England). Say I recognise that address to be a local one (I don't care if the actual address isn't an english one and therefore this wouldn't work for me - this is an example, Coconut was good enough to blur out the address so I don't know it, therefore for all I know I COULD have done it and so could someone else in the relevant country). As long as the full name isn't 'John Smith' it would be easy to type it into my medical records search engine and get up their record. A name may not be unique in a world sense but narrowed down by area it would be easy to find. Thanks to your good friends at TSR I now have access to Jass' medical records. I can change anything. I now have the power to declare her dead (no honestly I do, it used to be my job to declare people dead and we always had to be very careful and certain that it was the right person)

But the FAs wouldn't do that, would they? Okay that's a bit extreme, but this is just an example of the things you can do with the information given. And they just handed that information out to people who had just been given a reason to go on a self righteous revenge trip. After all what had this person just done to their 'friend'  - you said it, Macaque they're all close friends.

It may have been doen all in good fun, but our point is that their conversation was DANGEROUS and should have been stopped.