Poor Atwat....

[De]

Not saying that I am an atwa expert or anything close to that.I did spend every night for 6 months talking to her.How that came about was a slick move on her part.And a dumb move on mine.But anyway,she is a very miserable person.She is suicidal at times (atleast she claimed to be). She is completely obsessed with Thomas.You guys have no idea how deep it goes. Well, he is the only man she has had since she was 27, she is now 53.You can tell by her pictures that she has issues with recreational beverages. She has no friends (surprise), no kids, no close family. All she has is Thomas, TSR, and here. Her life is so empty. Does that mean that I feel sorry for her and I think she should be excused for her actions. Hell no. As Paleo said we all have issues that we have to deal with.

[Tabby]

 She had Thoma$$?   

[De]

She had Thoma$$?   

That is what she claims.But then she would turn around and call him her son.As you guys have seen.YUK!

[Paleoanth]

Not saying that I am an atwa expert or anything close to that. I did spend every night for 6 months talking to her.

You realize you are going to need therapy now, right? 

[Devilfish]

Some people are mentally ill.

Off topic-but I would go so far as to say most if not all people have some form of mental illness, depending on how you define mental illness.  I have not found anyone that didn't have something wrong with them.  With some people that 'something' is worse than other people's 'something'.  I have a theory on why this is so, but the point is that we all have some kind of mental issue-whether it be depression, addiction, bi-polar, etc.

While I agree that everyone seems to have something wrong with them, not everyone who is slightly off-kilter is actually ill. I've spent quite a few years fighting of a nice depression/psychosis two-fer and I can garantee you: if you manage to function without anyone noticing you're not all there, you're not ill in my book. I'm not talking I'm-having-a-bleh-day-depression either. I'm talking full-fledged hallucinations, bathwater turning into spiders and blood, night terrors, suicidal rage, straight jackets, 'visits' from thing that were not human at all... the works. If you meet someone truly psychotic like I was, you'll know. It's horrifying and I'm glad most people never even get to see what true mental illness looks like and only know it from stereotypical images. I'm one of the lucky few who managed to put it behind me, thanks to copious amounts of medication and a loving, understanding family. Very few have been so lucky. That's how I choose to define mentally ill. I'm not having a go at you or anything I respect your opinion, but not everyone who has some bad days is actually clinically depressed.

I have to admit I would just hate the idea of her being actually ill. It would make her seem just a bit less responsible for her actions.

Nah.  Especially once you know what is wrong with you, you are still responsible for what you do.  My 'something' wrong with me does not preclude me not being responsible for what I do.  No one gives a crap what is wrong with you, what they care about is what you do and how you act.

Continuing on what I said before, it depends on how ill you are. If you are seriously convinced that the night terrors are real and that they will suffocate and eat you, if you see your loved ones faces turn into monstrous abominations and receive calls from things saying they will rape you and drag you to hell, if you need two burly male nurses and straps to put you down for the night... No, you're not responsible for your actions. I hurt a lot of people while I was... out, physically as well as emotionally. I'll have to live with that the rest of my life. Doctors telling me the monsters under the bed weren't real did not actually make the monsters go away. And my food still turned into insect and snot.

It's all horribly off-topic and I won't blame anyone for thinking I'm overreacting (or lying my ass off), but that's what actual mental illness looks like. People behaving like childish jerks doesn't even come close to that level of horror.

But anyway, I'm done whining now. Please continue with the actual topic. 

[Paleoanth]

Well, Devilfish, what you are describing is certainly an extreme form of mental illness and I will agree with you that you are not responsible for your actions when dealing with the results from having that type of psychosis.  That is some seriously bad brain chemistry.  I am glad you have recovered from that as it sounds like you lived in hell-literally.  I cannot even imagine dealing with something like that. 

If you compare your experiences with what most people deal with in their 'something' wrong with them, then, no, most people will not even come close to what you think of as mentally ill.  That is why I made the whole 'depending on how you define it' statement.  Using your definition, I am most certainly mind numbingly normal, for example.  However, most mental illness as not as serious as what you dealt with, but they are still defined as mental illnesses.  The definition has changed and been expanded in the last couple of decade to include things that were not considered mental illnesses before.  With those, I guess, less serious forms of mental disorders/illness people are still responsible for their actions, even if they are not at fault for having that issue. 

I wasn't really thinking of something as serious as you describe when I made my statement.  I hope you were not offended. 

[Devilfish]

A little, but not by what you said. More by the whole 'I'm feeling bad today, I must have a depression' mentality that seems to be all the rage, espacially among very young people. It's just a little awkward for me to hear people complain about their horrible depression when they're actually just having a rough month. I'd never say all the stuff I said here in real life (because nobody would talk to me if I did and honestly, who gives a crap?) and most of my former fellow inmates wouldn't either. So very little people know what it's actually like.

However, most mental illness as not as serious as what you dealt with, but they are still defined as mental illnesses.

You'd be surprised. I spent some time in hospitals, made friends there, met their friends... all of them ill, because 'normal' people just don't make friends with them and I can certainly see why. I tell you, once you realise just how goddamn many sick people there are, you'll never be able to look at mental illness the same way again. (Although I do suppose we live in very different countries, so maybe it's different somewhere else? Wouldn't know)

But, like I said, I certainly agree that it's not a clear-cut, black-and-white, sick-or-healthy kind of deal. There are shades of grey and some people are just more 'insane' than others, or have their insanity manifest differently. That being said, I really don't think I've seen any people in this community that are 'insane' enough to actually be classified as mentally ill. A lot of ill people can function perfectly without medication or even therapy, so if it's there, it really is very mild and mostly harmless. (Apart from evi. S/he/it really has me worried for other people's safety)

I do want to thank you for being so nice about this, I know I can get carried away when this topic comes up. I should really learn to keep my big mouth shut sometimes. 

[SoggyFox]

Man - now I feel normal too, and I've been a diagnosed manic depressive for almost 20 years now.

I will say that I do pity Atwa/Anita/whatever.

Of topic, I'll say that I think treating anyone who's mind works differently as if they are broken is a mistake - it maddens me when they talk about aspberger's and autism as being so horrid illness - yes, those people do not socialize well without a lot of training and work on the part of those around them and themselves.  But I've known autistic children - sweet, really brilliant and very easy to get along with - maybe its just how I am myself - I know they can be a real handful too, but so can spoiled children.

What I'm trying to say is - maybe we need more understanding and less 'That's another illness' slapped onto things.

[Paleoanth]

I do want to thank you for being so nice about this, I know I can get carried away when this topic comes up. I should really learn to keep my big mouth shut sometimes. 

Nice, shmice.  I am learning something and that is always valuable.  Plus a good discussion is a good discussion.  I do agree that there are bandwagons people jump on without really thinking about what it means.  For myself, I am a recovering alcoholic and have been diagnosed with clinical depression.  Although, that was only a brain chemistry thing and didn't require any therapy-just drugs.  It wasn't that I was having a bad day, it was more that I was nonfunctional when there was nothing wrong with my life.  It was weird.   Anyway, it used to just piss me off when every other celebrity went into rehab because they drank too much one weekend and then blabbed about AA.  Most of them had no idea what being an alkie was all about or what it truly did to you, they just wanted in on the "disease of the month." It became a freaking status symbol. 

And you are right, most people's issues are of the functional variety, including mine.  I guess what we are talking about is how ill do you have to be to be considered insane at any point?  I have no idea.  I don't consider myself insane, but alcoholism is classified by some references and doctors as a mental illness.  Maybe we are just having a word choice problem.  That is the problem with some of these shades of gray issues.  We are talking using different definitions of terms.  What I consider a mental illness, you do not because of your somewhat unique viewpoint.  Which is understandable.  I am using mental disorder and illness as interchangeable terms.  Perhaps I should not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_mental_disorders

[Lilith]

Not saying that I am an atwa expert or anything close to that.I did spend every night for 6 months talking to her.How that came about was a slick move on her part.And a dumb move on mine.But anyway,she is a very miserable person.She is suicidal at times (atleast she claimed to be). She is completely obsessed with Thomas.You guys have no idea how deep it goes. Well, he is the only man she has had since she was 27, she is now 53.You can tell by her pictures that she has issues with recreational beverages. She has no friends (surprise), no kids, no close family. All she has is Thomas, TSR, and here. Her life is so empty. Does that mean that I feel sorry for her and I think she should be excused for her actions. Hell no. As Paleo said we all have issues that we have to deal with.

That's scary.  Perhaps being alone for so long drove her to her Thomas obsession.  Not that being without a man excuses her.  She could have found a healthier outlet for at least making friends with other people. And ugh the idea of her and him *together* makes me feel a little sick. If they really were I wonder if his wife has any idea or if it's just a delusion on Atwa's part.

[Yaardarm Monkey II]

And my food still turned into insect and snot.

    why the hell is my wife cooking your dinner?   

[EmilyTwitch]

And my food still turned into insect and snot.

    why the hell is my wife cooking your dinner?   

Dad?

[Astonished lemons]

And my food still turned into insect and snot.

    why the hell is my wife cooking your dinner?   

Dad?

*Que Maury show audience going 'OHHH!'*

I do pity  Atwat in a way, nothing excuses that sort of behavior, but she's about ten years younger than my grandma and ten years older older than my mother, why couldnt she have taken up knitting instead of Thomass/TSR/the sims? Why couldnt she get some cats and join a cat lovers club? Join a church with social activities? Just something that would get her out into the sun and around other people for a few hours a week. It might even clear her head of all the things she claims to have wrong with her.

[ChaosInAMinor]

Man - now I feel normal too, and I've been a diagnosed manic depressive for almost 20 years now.

I will say that I do pity Atwa/Anita/whatever.

Of topic, I'll say that I think treating anyone who's mind works differently as if they are broken is a mistake - it maddens me when they talk about aspberger's and autism as being so horrid illness - yes, those people do not socialize well without a lot of training and work on the part of those around them and themselves.  But I've known autistic children - sweet, really brilliant and very easy to get along with - maybe its just how I am myself - I know they can be a real handful too, but so can spoiled children.

What I'm trying to say is - maybe we need more understanding and less 'That's another illness' slapped onto things.

My older brother, who is 22, I mean...18... has Aspergers and is schizophrenic. He was hell to deal with as a teenager, but when he's on meds and stabilized, he is the sweetest guy in the world. And his gift for music and history is amazing. He can play back anything he hears on the piano and he's had no piano lessons in his life, and he could probably tell you how many moles Mussolini had on his left arm. He has an anger issue, but when people are willing to work with him, he's great.

[calalily]

I demand MOAR TWAT MUGS! 

If you insist...

I await your votive.  

Honestly, some people just don't know how to accept a gift graciously. Calalily, it's good to know that you, on the other hand, would never look a gift TWAT mug in the mouth. But, since I don't have one to send you, would a pissed off looking Garfield mug suffice?

I take any abusive mug messages with grace and aplomb.   It must be a personal insult though - otherwise I'll think you don't care.

I don't think there's anything seriously wrong with Atwat - she's just in a loop she won't break out of.  If all the people I've met in my life who didn't stop and do an internal check to okay their actions were mentally ill, then I know a lot of mentally ill people.  

Of topic, I'll say that I think treating anyone who's mind works differently as if they are broken is a mistake - it maddens me when they talk about aspberger's and autism as being so horrid illness - yes, those people do not socialize well without a lot of training and work on the part of those around them and themselves. 

Well my son has Asperger's - I wouldn't say that it's a horrid illness.  It's more that I have to modify how I explain things to him - logic wins over any kind of emotional plea.  You have to logically explain why it's not good to treat people carelessly, which means that it is lucky I am quick on my toes.  Of course, it's then good that he doesn't stick with his argument for why it's a good idea to do whatever it is - he's not emotionally attached to his point of view so I mostly know I've won because he says "....good point".