Shino&KCR, or "wait.....what?"

[AW]

Shino,
First, I already paid the appropriate, copyrighted, licensed entity that owns the Sims 2.  Second, I never asked you for anything.  Third, donations are given because a community wants to support the artist/site.  I don't know what kind of community you live in, but mine is heavily military.  I do things all the time for those in my community that involve my time and my money and never, ever ask nor expect anything in return.

You continue to be childishly condescending and I won't be manipulated by it.  I don't believe that everyone who donates to TSR in an idiot.  There are many creators with huge amounts of talent that are at TSR, make no mistake that I have said this in previous posts.  The problem with a site such as TSR is that instead of having a true community spirit, you must pay to enjoy the entire community within the site.  There are many who play Sims from foreign countries that simply cannot afford to pay for content.  Especially when there is no guarantee, when items are photoshopped, when items do not animate to game specifications, and so on.  

I really don't understand your purpose at coming here to just bait us to watch us react to you.  Get a life, already.  Go have your friends pay to be a part of your world.  We, however, prefer that noone pays to be a part of ours.  We may not handle everything the way someone else might, we may be brash and rude, but we're not fake, we don't lie, we don't say we're one thing and then act another - we're not posers.  So, best of luck to you in your pursuits at TSR.   Ciao!

[FightingRose]

As some of you may have noticed, i didn't take the our Site off and i never intended to. I posted the way i did for 2 main reason.
1. To give you a big target that feeds your expectation of us.
This part should provoke reaction and worked out pretty well i think.
2. To raise the question "Why is it bad move to keep your old content free even if you go pay?"
That part didn't work as i expected cause, i guess i made the target to preeminent.
So i ask the questions now more direct. Yes we did go to TSR for selfish reasons, but how do you think keeping our free site up is selfish too. I really don't get it, we don't get money out of it, we don't get praised for it, and we have to pay money for it. On top of we restrict the download potential of our sets at TSR and giving you an easy way to get them in your booty. So how is this a selfish and evil move from our side?

My reasons for being here and talk to you despite the fact that expect you to just flame me. I want to know if there is more reason to your actions then just greed, jealousy and the i hate everything attitude that comes naturally with the puberty.
I mean you speak so low of the people the sims community is build on and i don't talk about us in particular. The way i understand you everyone that donates something or subscribes to TSR is an idiot cause he could get it for free. I mean without people donating there would be no MTS2 for example.
And you think creators are your peons who work all day for you.
You talk about the community, hide behind sentences like, we want to protect the community from the evil that paysites are, don't make me laugh. All that drives you is greed. The thing that drives a community is the give and take of its members. You take and take and take and the second somebody stops giving it to you turn into a little child running in circles crying "i want i want i want".
I hope my words weren't too insulting, but i wanted to show you the 2d picture i have of you. I hope you can prove me wrong but i don't expect it.

There are only a few people in this thread i want exclude out of this picture and i want to address some good point made.
First of all the all time favorite you learned it on MTS2 for free and now you want money for it. Of course we took something namely knowledge out of the MTS2 community, but i think we gave something back too, in form of the sets we uploaded and donations.
Then there is you should be willing to spend a little money on your hobbies. As i understand it, one of your hobbies is playing sims, so why aren't you willing to spend some money on it? And if you do something you like and someone gives you money for it why shouldn't you take it.
And last but not least "You don't win friends when you go pay". You don't win friends by paying for them.

ps: to all the flamers posting that you don't bother to post is just stupid and was the entertainment i wanted to get out of my last ps

Pot, meet kettle.

There's is a major difference between us and the paysite owners/creators. We don't get anything of value out of what we do. Nothing. Nada. Zip. (And don't say that these creations are worth something. They aren't)

Greedy? Perhaps. But is it wrong to desire something that should be free anyway? The point we have here is that paying for content is not only complete and utter shit, but it's also illegal. We're finally taking a stand and saying we're tired of it.

If you don't have the money to run a site, then don't do it. Simple as that. If you like to create stuff for the sims, that's awesome, create away. It's your choice. No one is forcing you do it. This isn't a job where you MUST do it. This is something everyone should simply be doing for fun. Not for a quick buck. And that's what even you now said you are doing. Again, pot meet kettle.

The reason it's bad to keep your content free somewhere else? I believe someone here answered that by saying something to the effect of, wanting to eat the cake and keep it too. You're making some people PAY for a creation that's also free elsewhere. Which is cheating people out of their money. That's craptastic.

Oh, and I'm sure many, if not all, of these people are well past puberty.

 :wink:

[Pooki]

I don't see how we take, as you call it when the booty is paid for and then shared that is called giving.  We have already paid for our hobby when we bought the game.  The whole point of this site is that you shouldn't have to pay for custom content for the game.  No one here thinks that creators are peons to work for us all day yes there are people like that but that is everywhere.  I honestly don't see how this site is being greedy when it is actually sharing.

[littlemisspirate]

Yes we did go to TSR for selfish reasons, but how do you think keeping our free site up is selfish too. I really don't get it, we don't get money out of it, we don't get praised for it, and we have to pay money for it. On top of we restrict the download potential of our sets at TSR and giving you an easy way to get them in your booty. So how is this a selfish and evil move from our side?

WHERE did anyone say that keeping your original free items up was selfish or evil?  Hecubus initially expressed confusion that Thomas permitted the items to be hosted for free elsewhere while they were pay on TSR.  Hecubus LOVED YOU, MAN.  *emotear*  And your items went into the booty because if someone charges for it, it goes in the booty.  Plain and simple.

I want to know if there is more reason to your actions then just greed, jealousy and the i hate everything attitude that comes naturally with the puberty.

Either you're a hypocrite or an idiot, take your pick.  

The way i understand you everyone that donates something or subscribes to TSR is an idiot cause he could get it for free. I mean without people donating there would be no MTS2 for example.

And yet, magically, MTS2 has never held content hostage in order to generate donations!  Why is this such a difficult distinction for paysite creators to make?  Please explain this, I'm genuinely curious.

And you think creators are your peons who work all day for you.

*snort*

Yes, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally consider Nouk, Dour, Ren, Berg, HP, and any other of the many major (and totally fabulous) free creators to be my personal slaves.  GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND FIX ME A SAMMICH, BITCHES!

I actually expect *more* of a pay creator than a free creator.  A free creator asks for nothing in return.  My way of compensating them, I respect their TOSes, offer feedback, etc.

On the other hand, if I plunk money down for an item, I expect to be able to do anything I wish with it.  If I want to lend my new jeans to my little sister, I will, and the same goes for pay content.  I also expect those items to be lower-poly, well-made, and non-game borking, as if those same jeans, say, became ripped, you can bet they'd be going back to Nordstrom's in a heartbeat.  There is no consumer protection for payees in this community, which only heaps insult onto injury.

All that drives you is greed. The thing that drives a community is the give and take of its members. You take and take and take and the second somebody stops giving it to you turn into a little child running in circles crying "i want i want i want".

Yeah, we were sooooo taking when we offered the Main Street Sims crazies free hosting and enough donations to cover their costs.  We just ripped the cash out of poor Jessica's hands when generous donators made sure she'd be able to pay for Wicked Sims' new server.  God help you had you thought maybe to ask us for assistance.  We might have, I don't know, HELPED YOU.  Heaven forbid!

Good Lord.  You sound like my ex.

First of all the all time favorite you learned it on MTS2 for free and now you want money for it. Of course we took something namely knowledge out of the MTS2 community, but i think we gave something back too, in form of the sets we uploaded and donations.

You did give back.  And now you've stopped giving, by demanding financial compensation and taking your toys and going home.  No one's saying that paysites = sources of all evil in the universe here.  But you've knocked out all that previous good karma you earned from being part of the free community by shaking down your fans.

Then there is you should be willing to spend a little money on your hobbies. As i understand it, one of your hobbies is playing sims, so why aren't you willing to spend some money on it? And if you do something you like and someone gives you money for it why shouldn't you take it.

If I like smoking crack, and my friend offers me $50 for a rock, I should like, OMG, totally take their money!  Because I like smoking crack and someone's offering me money for it!  Never mind that the difference between possession and possession with intent to sell is at least 5 extra years in jail!

Okay, that example might be a bit extreme, but crack must be involved if you still don't realize that selling content is in direct violation of EA's TOU.  And yes, darlin', you signed that contract too.

And last but not least "You don't win friends when you go pay". You don't win friends by paying for them.

There are two essential problems with this statement.

A)  If that isn't true, then explain Paris Hilton.
B)  NO ONE IS PAYING FOR FRIENDS HERE.  One of the principles that guides PMDB is developing community through a level playing field and a free exchange of items and information.  That's one obscenely healthy principle.  (Pescado is excluded, of course.  His only motive for being here is MOAR FIGHT!)

ps: to all the flamers posting that you don't bother to post is just stupid and was the entertainment i wanted to get out of my last ps

You entertain far too easily.  Here's a ball of yarn.

[Bliss]

Again the same thing is true the other way around
a creator doesn't owe you any of its work.
And you didn't answer the question we need to pay for the game to you know. The point is not that you have to give me money, it's why am i evil if i don't give you something?

Untrue.  You do not "need" to buy the game.  You "choose" to buy the game.  There is a large difference there.  Your grammar is a little off, so English may not be your first language so forgive me if it is a matter of translation rather than semantics.


The reason there is the Booty, is that for the longest time people would cry that they needed to be a paysite because of their bandwidth bills.  So these fine folks (ignore their tempers) go out, purchase the files (they pay for every single one, no stealing!) and save you the bandwidth by uploading them to this site, with full credit given.  You won't find one single thing in the Booty that is misrepresented.  (Unless it was done so by the original, credited creator.)

When more and more paysites started finding out about the Booty, they got mad.  It turns out that it WASN'T the bandwidth they needed.  The argument turned from "We need it to pay bandwidth!" to "But, as a creator, it's my right to charge".  You see the difference there?  

There really isn't any point in either side getting heated up anymore.  The issue is out there, more and more forums aren't blocking the PMBD website.  You will either follow the contract you agreed to, or you won't.

[Feverish]

As some of you may have noticed, i didn't take the our Site off and i never intended to. I posted the way i did for 2 main reason.
1. To give you a big target that feeds your expectation of us.
This part should provoke reaction and worked out pretty well i think.
2. To raise the question "Why is it bad move to keep your old content free even if you go pay?"
That part didn't work as i expected cause, i guess i made the target to preeminent.

It's wrong to offer the set as pay at TSR when it is free elsewhere. You are tricking people into subscribing for something that they may not know is already free.

So i ask the questions now more direct. Yes we did go to TSR for selfish reasons, but how do you think keeping our free site up is selfish too. I really don't get it, we don't get money out of it, we don't get praised for it, and we have to pay money for it. On top of we restrict the download potential of our sets at TSR and giving you an easy way to get them in your booty. So how is this a selfish and evil move from our side?
My reasons for being here and talk to you despite the fact that expect you to just flame me. I want to know if there is more reason to your actions then just greed, jealousy and the i hate everything attitude that comes naturally with the puberty.

The kind people here spend their time donating, sorting, and updating the booty without any incentives other than a thanks so that people, some who can't afford to pay Thomass and his greedy minions, can download content that should be free to them.
The fact that you still have your donation button on your site makes laugh at your hypocrisy. You want people to pay at both places for the same content?
And what does "the puberty" have to do with the anything?

I mean you speak so low of the people the sims community is build on and i don't talk about us in particular. The way i understand you everyone that donates something or subscribes to TSR is an idiot cause he could get it for free. I mean without people donating there would be no MTS2 for example.

No offense to any creators, but I think the game is built mostly on fans who play the game or in my case, people who download for the game. The game is still playable without any custom content. It might not be as fun, but it's still playable.

And you think creators are your peons who work all day for you.
You talk about the community, hide behind sentences like, we want to protect the community from the evil that paysites are, don't make me laugh. All that drives you is greed. The thing that drives a community is the give and take of its members. You take and take and take and the second somebody stops giving it to you turn into a little child running in circles crying "i want i want i want".
I hope my words weren't too insulting, but i wanted to show you the 2d picture i have of you. I hope you can prove me wrong but i don't expect it.

I work Monday through Friday at a job I don't really like for a paycheck that isn't enough. I give some of that money to EA for the game and expansions. They are the only ones that should make profit from sims. If you think so highly of yourself maybe you should put in a job application with them. Someone mentioned they were hiring. The address was even posted. I don't owe you or TSR a damn thing. And speaking of owe, how much do you pay in taxes? I work, and I have to pay them. Shouldn't you have to pay taxes as well?

There are only a few people in this thread i want exclude out of this picture and i want to address some good point made.
First of all the all time favorite you learned it on MTS2 for free and now you want money for it. Of course we took something namely knowledge out of the MTS2 community, but i think we gave something back too, in form of the sets we uploaded and donations.
Then there is you should be willing to spend a little money on your hobbies. As i understand it, one of your hobbies is playing sims, so why aren't you willing to spend some money on it? And if you do something you like and someone gives you money for it why shouldn't you take it.
And last but not least "You don't win friends when you go pay". You don't win friends by paying for them.

ps: to all the flamers posting that you don't bother to post is just stupid and was the entertainment i wanted to get out of my last ps

I am willing to spend some money on sims when I but it from the EA, and if they don't clear this shit up by sims 3, I'm not giving them any more damn money either. I'd rather not play at all if I'm expected to pay for the game and custom content too.

ps: Will you shut up about flaming/flamers already?

[shino]

You miss understand what i am saying i have not that big of a problem understanding why you sharing the content of the game. I did never say we did go to TSR because we didn't get our bandwith paid for. That fact played only a little towards the decision to go there.
The thing i'm curios about and find a bit strange, is that you justify your greed with the greater good.
For example say something like there are people in poor foreign country we are trying protect from you. I mean come on give me break. I am sure they way bigger problems then getting all content there is for sims 2.
You shouldn't have to pay for the custom of a game. Nobody force you to do so. There tons of free content for sims 2 more then for any other game i know of.  Even your "enemy" namely TSR has 21418 sets free for download. And we to have free content on our site. But you gotta have it all, sry but thats just greed plain and simple. No one force you to have 50 gb download folder.

Why MTS2 never holds sets hostage?
The question on it's own is hilarious. You can't take something hostage that belongs to you. If i make a set i think i am entitle to choose which persons i want to share it with.
And the answer is cause such nice people that they carry such a big weight for you and me too of course. They have big problems raisin enough money for the server costs every month and put loads of their own into it so you can appreciate it for free. And did give them something back for it.

And last but not least it's untrue, you need buy the game in order to make content for it.

[Apsalar]

You guys have managed to make my day again *chuckle* I sure know where to go to get some serious entertainment.  :lol:

I agree with MizzKitty; every time I make a thing for sims2 (maybe 5 things in total, so not that much) , and I happen to get one download and one person gives me a good comment, I am happy for an entire week, and that is more than enough for me! So every time someone is complaining about downloads and donations and whatever excuses they create in their heads for pure greed, I almost want to throw up. I say almost because honestly, it's not worth even that. :wink:

*smiles sweetly* Sheesh, Shino! You've made a choice! Now live with it!  :roll:

[Shotgun Mary]

They have big problems raisin enough money for the server costs every month and put loads of their own into it so you can appreciate it for free.

Oh no. Someone is doing something selflessly! At the same time, when MTS2 announced the last donation drive, they were over their goal within 72 hours. Nobody had to be given an incentive. The community was simply asked "hey, people, we need money, little help?" and because they are so loved everyone banded together to pay for the new server. My best example of a wonderful free-site is http://all-about-style.com/ Judie always has beautiful content FOR FREE and she never asks for anything from us. She could use the bandwidth excuse or succumb to the greed of TSR but she doesn't. The Sims 2 community is unique in that there is a large portion of us that have rejected the commercializm of other venues.


*edit* I just had an amazing idea! We should make an award for those sites that are examplary community members. They should be everything that a free-site should be. By posting them here we could effectively advertise those that are good and by giving them a graphic award for their site to display *if they wanted to* we could bring more people into the fold. It would also serve to show that we do love legitimate, free sims site and drive home the point that we do not redistribute free files.

[Jojoba]

<snip>
They have big problems raisin enough money for the server costs every month and put loads of their own into it so you can appreciate it for free. <snip>

<snip>At the same time, when MTS2 announced the last donation drive, they were over their goal within 72 hours. Nobody had to be given an incentive. The community was simply asked "hey, people, we need money, little help?" and because they are so loved everyone banded together to pay for the new server. <snip>

Insimenator.net is also in need of donations at the moment, and they are a fantastic site with great free content, so hopefully the community will group together and help them

Sorry off topic!

[AW]

Ok, just so I completely understand your points, they are:  You understand why we share, you shouldn't have to pay for it if you don't want to p - get free stuff shithead, anyone who downloads cc is "plain greedy", people who can't afford subs or donations are just shit out of luck, when you create you have the entitlement to the content you created based on a game and coding platform you don't own, MTS2 is nice and the rest you lost me on.  Justify our greed for the greater good?  You are talking nonsense.  I have no files from the booty in my game.  Why?  A lot of it doesn't even work or looks nothing like the pictures from the originating site.  How about the false advertising done on paysites?  

You know what I think, I think that we are a place that you can come and say whatever you want, to flame or not to flame, is determined on the posts.  I think paysites come here to be abused, they expect it, hell they ask for it - you did.  Is that why you are still coming here?  We have for the most part laughed you off and have not torn at you as we could.   Go to TSR with my blessings.  If you attitude is I can make it, show it, but I only choose who can have it - why create in the first place?  Creators - don't you create for the fun and love of it - the appreciation?  The satisfaction of knowing that you did something that people all over the world are using in their game because they admired what you created?  So, Shino, do whatever you want with your creations, ok?  Just know this, when someone thanks you are they thanking you because they feel obligated to or because they want to?  Maybe you don't care, it would seem that unless you are paid for it, you just could care less whether or not anyone wants your objects in the first place.  I don't want to be a part of your type of community, self-serving as it is.

EDIT:  Thanks CJ, I will up my monthly donation now.  Appreciate the info.

[FightingRose]

You miss understand what i am saying i have not that big of a problem understanding why you sharing the content of the game. I did never say we did go to TSR because we didn't get our bandwith paid for. That fact played only a little towards the decision to go there.
The thing i'm curios about and find a bit strange, is that you justify your greed with the greater good.
For example say something like there are people in poor foreign country we are trying protect from you. I mean come on give me break. I am sure they way bigger problems then getting all content there is for sims 2.
You shouldn't have to pay for the custom of a game. Nobody force you to do so. There tons of free content for sims 2 more then for any other game i know of.  Even your "enemy" namely TSR has 21418 sets free for download. And we to have free content on our site. But you gotta have it all, sry but thats just greed plain and simple. No one force you to have 50 gb download folder.

Why MTS2 never holds sets hostage?
The question on it's own is hilarious. You can't take something hostage that belongs to you. If i make a set i think i am entitle to choose which persons i want to share it with.
And the answer is cause such nice people that they carry such a big weight for you and me too of course. They have big problems raisin enough money for the server costs every month and put loads of their own into it so you can appreciate it for free. And did give them something back for it.

And last but not least it's untrue, you need buy the game in order to make content for it.

I giggle at how much you show your own greed every time you post. You say that the fact you had to pay for bandwith but that was only part of the reason you went to TSR. So tell me, does your greed somehow magically become less of an issue than our alleged greed? Because you keep speaking about our 'greed' as though it is something vile and nasty. Yet for the most part ignore anything about your own greed, as if it is not as important. Double standard? I think so.

Can't take something hostage that doesn't belong to you, you say? Tell that to TSR. They missed the memo.

I don't need it all. In fact, I don't want it all. I just want what should be available to me for free. It's not about the objects in my mind, it's the fact that these items aren't available to me because someone is being a greedy bastard. That to me is the bigger issue. I would like the option to download them just like I can download things from MTS2. But no, I'm denied access to these items because I'm not willing to pay a greedy person.

[Yaardarm Monkey]

still waiting for Shino to answer the question:

"And speaking of owe, how much do you pay in taxes?"


cuz guess what?  you know that $$$ you are taking in?

it's called......income

 :wink:

[Quinctia]

TSR holds items hostage, because it won't delete the items of people who have chosen to leave or have been forced to leave.  TSR makes a practice of offering money to free sites to shut them down and lock their content away.  TSR sucks, basically.

I'm not entitled to anything you make, but you're not entitled to money for Sims content, either.

[littlemisspirate]

And last but not least it's untrue, you need buy the game in order to make content for it.

Oh HELL NO.  Don't even try and use that as an excuse.  If you enjoy creating content for the game, then buy the game.  If you don't, then don't.  But do NOT try and pass off your copies of the game and the expansion packs as a business expense onto your fans.  That's just petty.