I think I've figured something out...

[dietofworms]

You can yell at me all you want for starting a new thread.  But I just had a nasty thought that makes a lot of sense.

Here's my hypothesis and prediction:  Thomas knows something we don't know.  He's recruited Birgit, Marilu, Steffor, Sasilia, Teko, and now KC and Shino (who were just made SA's) in a short period of time.  What impetus do all these people have to move to TSR at a time when paysites are threatened with legal action?

I think Thomas, or Steve, has  made a deal with EA, something like a one-off licensing system.  TSR is allowed to charge money for "operating costs" or something vague like that.  In turn TSR pays EA a fee, and is permitted to maintain the status quo (=remaining a paysite).  I have absolutely no inside knowledge.  But we know that Steve/Maxis/EA are very close, and the relationship hasn't deteriorated in all this fuss about paysites.  Thomas seems alarmingly able to recruit some of the most prominent creators, even more so than in the past.  They all must feel real secure that TSR won't be touched in a purge of paysites.

And see, this is a vicious cycle.  Thomas recruits "big" creators, persuading EA to allow it to remain pay.  EA thinks that Thomas has sucked up the "good ones", motivating it to make an exclusive agreement with TSR which can be easily regulated (because it's only one site as opposed to dozens of paysites).  Then Thomas is all the more able to recruit more people, and on and on.

I don't like the sound of this.  Please argue that I'm wrong. :cry:

[Paleoanth]

I am not going to argue that you are wrong, it is something I have also thought of.  There might be another or additional reason, though.  I think that when TSR went from all things going through the pay/free rotation to everything free but FA the paid subscriptions went way down.  I think the loss of subscriptions hit them hard, as I don't think they expected that to happen.  So, in order to get subscription levels back up, they went recruiting paysite people who had a following in hopes that people who subscribed to Birgit, Sasilla, et al. would be willing to come to TSR and subscribe there too.  If they get all the major paysites under their umbrella, all that money that was spread on all those sites would come to TSR.

[HawkGirl]

Don't let the wool be pulled over your eyes into thinking Thomas and Steve are cozy with EA they are not. Just call EA legal and talk to them...don't email tech support, ask the Maxoids. Call EA at their corporate offices and ask to speak to legal. I don't understand why more people don't do that? It does no good to email tech support. They have no idea what is the law what is not. They are not EA's lawyers and the lawyers need this information. You have to call corporate. You won't get conflicting stories from them. It takes time to supeona paypal records/credit card records. Judges just don't order a company to give them up if they think you do not have a case, or sign off on them just like that. They are taking their time at collecting evidence and reviewing the financial records, etc...to determine what will be done, if anything. I'm calling them today to update the new list of sites that have gone pay.

[calalily]

I'm definately going to argue you are wrong.

1. If EA had made a deal with TSR, you don't think that there would be an EA approved seal on the site do you?

2. If Thomas has spies here, and he probably does - then this would be the first place that EA would focus.  Or at the very least, TSR would threaten.

3. We wouldn't get emails from EA stating that selling custom content is wrong.

That may well be the future - but I won't be buying EA anymore - and so it won't be my problem.  If EA makes stupid deals with paysites to sucker more money out of me they'll end up with none of my money.

As for the recent recruitment - lots of well known artists have been asked to TSR - including Nouk.  If she had a brain aneurism tomorrow, she might consider taking up that offer and TSR would welcome her with open arms.

Perhaps the recent changes in the community mean that these owners, who are just after heaps of money after all, are looking for sure money with no output to make their own sites - and they take up the offer to TSR.  I would say that the freesite movement and information available has either put a dent in their sales, or made them fear a dent in sales.  

Not to mention that if EA does get off its arse and actually do something, it will be Thomas - owner of the company that takes the fall - not some measley little paysite owner with his $300 of ill-gotten gains.

Some of these paysite owners seem to have an almost psychic connection - and doubtless talk about things somewhere or other - so they all decide to let Thomas deal with it, and run away with their pockets fuller, and that's it - that's the grand plan.

[Minolia]

While I'm glad to hear EA's legal department are taking this seriously and getting details I find the lack of joined up policy and the fence sitting by the EAxis as a whole frustrating.

And when they start acting in such a wishy washy manner such as contradicting themselves over their reply to HP when they decided to change their minds after having given a very definative statement.:roll:  Well, I can see why people would speculate that deals are being done behind the scenes.

I just wish they'd start to get their act together by getting all arms of the corporation to act in the same manner and read from the same rule book.

In a similar vein I noticed this at s2c:

Originally Posted by corvidophile2
Lol that's true many free sites upload their content using models with all pay hair.


As for EA they don't care it's simple and since they find it so hard to give a final clear answer i wouldnt be surprised if they were "behind" some paysites as well.

Oh the scandal!

It's funny you mention this because at TSR there is a thread about a conference call between Steve Bonham and 2 execs at EA concerning TSR FA custom content being uploaded to the Exchange. It is evidently under investigation by EA and they have removed some of the custom sims due to this investigation. I will try to find it, someone else may know where it is. I looked yesterday and couldn't come across it again.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? I really hope that the EA boards aren't attempting to protect paysites interests, and again see the mixed messages it's sending out.

[Anouk]

There ws one, one of the outcomes was that all TSR content will be removed from the Exchange.

[Alphess]

There ws one, one of the outcomes was that all TSR content will be removed from the Exchange.

Well, my goodness. That certainly seems like more of a definite statement about EAs take on paysites than any answer they send  in e-mails.  I mean doesn't that show absolutely that EA is planning to defend paysites? Otherwise wouldn't they have said "Fuck you, we're not removing anything, it all technically belongs to us."

I dunno, this whole paysite stuff has never really concerned me. It's always been more important to me that I can find stuff that the creators allow to be used in uploaded lots than anything else. But if EA aligns itself with a mess like TSR, I think they are making a big mistake. It's such a shame. Can we not flood the BBS with "boycott TSR" posts so that EA realizes that if they expect to get a cut of $ from the big bad TSR, that they might not be able count on such a big take....

[Anouk]

Well, if TSR can offer them something they want, they'll have the same interrests.

[AW]

I actually am the one that posted that message.  I believe that the issue was that noone was being credited appropriately for their work.  I don't believe it was a stand for/against it was mainly that others were taking credit for someone else's work.  And if I understand that whole package thing correctly, the way the Season's changed it caused a lot of issues as well.

Someone with more/better knowledge can give more detail.

[Alphess]

If I was in charge of this thing... I'd

1) Start a letter writing campaign to EA telling them the things we find wrong with TSR. Everything from the hideously confusing layout, to creators works being held after they leave, to the structure of subscrip vs free items and the way said structure changes, in an effort to help them understand that backing TSR is not the way to go.

2) Start a campaign on the BBS. Using accounts sparingly, as we will most likely get banned, so that everyday for as long as is possible there would be at least one "Boycott TSR and here's why" thread. Hopefully the threads would be phrased in a way so that EA understands that we are it's customers, and we choose NOT to do business with TSR. This would do to get EA's attention, as well as to alert any noobies to the community about what is going on.


ok end of list and now just a few thoughts....

EA siding up with TSR also seems to be a bad thing for all of those smaller paysites. If EA sends down the command that only sites with EA's stamp of approval may charge money, that's going to fuck all the smaller paysite owners. Paysite owners would be wise to turn free (ad-based or donation based) now more than ever, before they are squashed by their own kind.


edit to add after reading armywife's post....

I can see that as being an issue... but damn.... when I was at sky sterlings (sterlingDT) forum, the simposium, there was a letter writing campaign about a year or so ago, where we pleaded with them about people having uncredited items on the exchange and we were pretty much ignored. Maybe EA doesn't mind people uploading uncredited free items, but they will stick up for those who upload pay items...  that's fucked up if that's the case. We free creators are willing to share, we only wanted our names preserved in the CC lists as the original creator. Though I haven't uploaded any of my own CC to the exchange in a while so maybe this has changed...

In any event, I've pretty much been waiting to see what EA will do in this whole situation, and if this TSR/EA phone call amounts to nothing I will fall back into the shadows....  If it turns out that EA is teaming up with TSR, I will be mad, and vocal, as hell.

[Hecubus]

We already have done a letter campaign to EA. I estimate nearly 200 letters were sent, based on downloads and notes to me.

I believe much of EA's case will be financial - how much are these sites making on the back of the corporation's product.

Even if EA does NOT make a decision, we're seeing the community take care of itself here. The free-the-sims movement is growing, major players are making their stand loud and clear, and let's face it - all the whining and machinations haven't kept us from "sharing user-created content on our non-commerical site."

I think we'll see some interesting resolution.

[Alphess]

We already have done a letter campaign to EA. I estimate nearly 200 letters were sent, based on downloads and notes to me.

I sent a letter myself, as part of that campaign, but here I was more specifically meaning one directed to EA's possible hooking up with TSR.... not so much as a plea to do away with Paysites, but as a plea to not hook up with the worst of all the paysites....  Jeez, I personally would rather EA endorsed tiny paysites than the biggest fucker on the block.

But I agree it will definitely be interesting

[Paleoanth]

EA siding up with TSR also seems to be a bad thing for all of those smaller paysites. If EA sends down the command that only sites with EA's stamp of approval may charge money, that's going to fuck all the smaller paysite owners. Paysite owners would be wise to turn free (ad-based or donation based) now more than ever, before they are squashed by their own kind.

Nah, all they would have to do at that point is move to TSR.  

Actually, it makes sense for smaller pays sites to move there anyway.  If EA does go against paysites, then TSR would be affected/sued/whatever and you would be safe.   Out of your money, but safe while TSR takes the brunt of the decision.

[redisenchanted]

Interesting theory...it's possible.

I find it rather hilarious that they're complaining about people using their content when they hold on to anything on their site with an iron fist.

I also wonder why EA would intervene on behalf of people who wanted their stuff taken off if they were planning a deal with TSR.

[dietofworms]

Tomato, I'm not sure that's true.  First off, EULA's or copyrights or trademarks can be enforced selectively.  If TSR gets monstrously big, it might be in EA's interests--if a financial deal has been swung--to let TSR off the hook. It's far easier to negotiate with one big paysite than with many small ones.

Second, for all that I dislike THomas and his SOP, he's not totally stupid and he must be aware of the paysite controversy and EA's imminent :roll: ruling.  Why go to the trouble of fattening up the cash cow now?  I don't think he'd do that for short term gain alone--i.e., if he thought EA would go after him.  Nah, I think they're in cahoots.

This irks me no end, because beyond the pay issue is the idea of a Sims download hegemony (lol) . You think the commercialization of the game and the community is bad now?  Everything that Thomas has done since he made his grand entrance has been to systematize the site so that it's more like a business.  Remember the old days at TSR?  Even after it left MGON?    Remember the loose organization of, for example, the forum?  Not good for the bottom line, so that's gone.  If TSR gets the EA imprimatur, things are going to get a lot worse.

ETA:  Why would EA intervene?  Because the number of downloads taken off the site is (are?) small potatoes.  Not worth the trouble of the email exchanges they caused.  Or something like that.