For NeptuneSuzy

[HideTheRum]

I'm really starting to be sick and tired of hearing we are horrible and harsh and disrespectful and evil. What, sometimes, some of us are horrible?? Wow. And here I thought anyone could say the exact same thing about pretty much any place, in real life or on the internet. People are fortunately free to start whatever initiative they will, but it's beyond me why they insist on starting it right at PMBD if it's so fucking unpleasant in here. I'll tell you more, it's actually this kind of attitude that turns me into a harsh, pissed off person.

[Moune]

Okay, first a mistake: I should not have phrased that ’horrible’ thing like that. It would be more correct to say that some of you sometimes come off as pretty horrible. I think I said something like that in a previous post too. I am not afraid of taking a beating and have done so on a few occasions, but I have until now been very wary about opening my mouth here, because in my lurkdom I’ve seen too many examples of reasonably sensible arguments or points of view being met with ‘yeah, fuck off bitch, we’ll just string you up’. There’s a couple of examples in this thread. I’ve also said before that I have no problems with Pescado’s attitude and comments. Most of the time I even agree with him.

JFederated, sorry I couldn’t find your post before. I’ve located it now, and thank you for the respect you show for creators. It is very much appreciated – at least from where I am. I am aware that you can make the argument that paysite and free creators are treated differently and logically I can see and appreciate the difference. But there is still a part of me that feels it’s the same. It’s an emotional thing (yes, I’m a woman). As a principle I somehow still doesn’t like it. I don’t like the fact that you have one Numenor file in the booty, either, although I can understand and appreciate the logic behind it. I guess, it’s just a dilemma.

Armywife, I don’t think I’m trolling you. Is this considered trolling?

[AW]

I didn't mean you as in you - you, you as a general term.  And I probably shouldn't press that submit button until I calm down slightly.  

I guess I have grown tired of how "PMBD is full of a bunch of mean people who just get off on beating fresh meat" (so to speak).  However, a lot of times, if you have had the opportunity to get to know individuals behind the screen names, you will see that some of what you read is in good fun and smartass comments slung back and forth don't bother the majority of us cause we're laughing.  I mean, how many site owners have a thread in their forum like Pes - read "It's All Pescado's Fault" in Sharkbait.  I don't ask you to agree with me or anyone here, and some of your posts have presented very reasonable and well thought-out arguments.  But to make a comment that is general in nature and insulting is not well taken.   I haven't commented on your posts previously because I did see the reasoning in what you were saying.  I too am a woman....duh if wife wasn't a clue.  And I am not usually that emotional except when I am being accused or portrayed in a light that is not true or accurate.   If you feel as if someone is being treated unreasonably, then you should call them on it....right then.  Or you could PM them and discuss it, I have.  I have not always agreed with everyone here and will not, but at least I am able to post my opinions freely without restriction and I take my spankings like a big girl.

[Moune]

I’m glad to know that and I understand what you mean. I made a mistake and you have every reason to be put off about that. (I knew I should have given that bottle of rum to Paden instead of drinking it myself  :oops: ).

And one thing I like very much about this place is that opinions can be expressed freely. What has made me wary is that sometimes those opinions gets slapped with some (IMO) pretty nasty and unnecessary comments. If you’re a newcomer or outsider, who don’t know the people behind those comments very well, it doesn’t really make you want to come back. That was what I was trying to say, but I didn’t put it in a very fortunate way, I admit.

[RedLove]

Peachfish my suggestion is LURK longer. Many of the regs have gotten chewed out for something or another at one point at time. You say you like that opinions can be expressed freely but then you say that we are "TEH EVIL" and should be nicer? Well that's our opinions they maybe mean and/or alcohol induced sometimes but that's what helps people decide if they want to stay or not. We are recruiting Well I was until none of my stalkees noticed I was stalking them so I quit stalking and recruiting! people to the anti-paysite movement not the PMBD movement. So if they don't like us or the site then that's tough. They can just leave. Where I'm going with this: All the people that are "against teh eval pirates" act as though just by occasionally jumping on people and enjoying it that we are scaring them away from the anti paysite movement but in reality we just don't want trolly or annoyingly stupid people at the site.


Anyway...I'm hungry.

[pixelated]

About the PMDB "evilness"... Yes, we bite stupid people, and we live by the honored tradition of insulting people for humor and bonding. I LOVE that this forum isn't one of those cuddly-wuddly places and if you don't like it, just grab the booty and get the hell out of here, because no one will miss you.

I lurked this forum for AGES before I even registered, then I lurked some more before posting. Because... that's how I usually do stuff. And I've never been told to read the stickies, gtfo or anything else mean. ... Now I probably will be, though.

[mando]

I’m glad to know that and I understand what you mean. I made a mistake and you have every reason to be put off about that.
And one thing I like very much about this place is that opinions can be expressed freely. What has made me wary is that sometimes those opinions gets slapped with some (IMO) pretty nasty and unnecessary comments. If you’re a newcomer or outsider, who don’t know the people behind those comments very well, it doesn’t really make you want to come back. That was what I was trying to say, but I didn’t put it in a very fortunate way, I admit.

Thanks for that at least  . Not every forum you come to is going to be your cup of tea and even in a place like this where you may (or may not) agree with the general consensus, it isn't necessarily going to function the way you want it to. This doesn't mean this is the only place that you can put your ideas forward, or that you can't start a group (or site, or forum) that will handle the subject matter and actions in a way that you would like it to be run.

I had no problems with the way the site was run when I first started posting here (of course, I had been lurking for quite a while before my first post), and am more than willing to take my lumps if I screw up. In fact I expect it, because I'm not going to hold back if I see something that someone has written that I think is foolish. People here are very opinionated and don't feel like they should have to baby people through, especially when they haven't bothered to learn anything about the forum culture before posting.

What I've seen here (usually anyway) is that when posts are made intelligently and are well thought out that they are well accepted even if the following posters don't agree with you. I think the "PMBD is so mean!!!" argument is mostly untrue. We are critical (okay, okay, very critical) of most paysites and their actions in general, and can be very harsh with behaviour and arguments that we consider childish or badly reasoned, but I think we are generally very fair. You must admit that (for the most part anyway) people here have answered your posts and concerns in a fairly even and uncruel way.


Please forgive my 8 million run on sentences, heh

[Doursim]

I think a lot of people forget about this little piece of genius.

I mean, that pretty much outlines EXACTLY what this site is about, and exactly the attitude the phorum stands for.  PMBD uses the EULA to simply prove that what it's doing isn't illegal, it's not our battle cry for cripes sake.  
If people are met with rudeness here, it is because of 2 reasons.
1.  n00bish (lol fun to type) behavior.  Making new threads for OLD news, necromancy, or asking for things.  Course, if those people would take half the amount of time they devoted to choosing an avatar and devoted it to reading stickies, those posts would not happen.  The phorum encourages baptism by fire for those who break those simple rules.  If your skin is thick enough to realize that you were an idiot and start playing by the rules, everyone will forget your past transgressions.
2.  n00bish replies.  You've made a good post and some kid who only has 2 post replies to you telling you your stupid and to go to hell.  In which case you can start a drinking game and just take a swig of rum every time a senior member of the phorum tells that person to stfu.  Not that only having 2 posts means your opinion doesn't matter and no one will listen to you

I love the phorum.  I don't post here much anymore, but it's only because I don't have anything to say.  Regarding Suzy, I'm disappointed.  I have always liked her, and still do.  I haven't read through this entire thread because it would be too tedious, but I realize that she's in some sort of mess that I wish she could have stayed out of.  She would have done herself a favor by keeping her mouth shut, then she wouldn't have had to have taken the heat for a bunch of decisions and polices that she doesn't have any control over.

[calalily]

The truth is, nobody ever really has.

I think a certain amount of people do actually give a damn. I can think of several incidents where someone took credit for another creator’s work and at least parts of the community reacted strongly to that. There were probably even people from here among the ‘reactors’.

So what should we do - go back to being silent about it? Suck it up and shut up?  

No, I don’t think you should. PMBD HAS made a difference and I acknowledge that. I was just trying to say that is sad that it has to be that way.  

I agree with PMBD’s mission, but I think there are things that could be done better or differently – which is why I finally opened my mouth.

So tell me - exactly what have you done for freesites, or to bring paysites down - other than not paying for content?

I keep hearing people wringing their hands and saying this isn't the way to do it - but what do you do? Nothing.  And if you'd done something, a drastic solution like PMBD wouldn't be needed, or necessary and wouldn't have such vehement support - would it?

Those who say it must be a "nice" revolution are kidding themselves - "nice" hasn't gotten you jackshit for years - and now that something is actually causing butthurt and making people talk you want nice?

The chance for nice passed about 3 years back - you know, while you were sitting on your hands and saying how nice everyone was and doing fuckall.

Not to mention, what exactly have you done to further the cause in the direction you want - cause I know I've done plenty other than bitch at PMBD, and so have a lot of people here.  You - I've not seen what you've done your way - the "nice" and apparently "right" way.  I venture that it's nothing, but call for niceness from the people actually doing things.

[SnarkyShark]

I LOVE that this forum isn't one of those cuddly-wuddly places and if you don't like it, just grab the booty and get the hell out of here, because no one will miss you.

 My thoughts also. I might add that every forum has it's own flavor, and here it's RUM. Don't like rum? Sorry about that, but it's time to move on.  Expecting an existing forum and it's members to modify their drinking habits to suit your particular tastes is insulting and not a particularly smart idea.

[Moune]

You must admit that (for the most part anyway) people here have answered your posts and concerns in a fairly even and uncruel way.

That is absolutely true, and I appreciate that. That’s why I’m still here.  

I lurked this forum for AGES before I even registered, then I lurked some more before posting

So did I. If you look at the dates, you’ll see that we joined on the same day.  :wink:

In any case, my main purpose in leaving lurkdom wasn’t at all to tell you all how ‘evil’ you are. It was to put in my two cents about what in my opinion is good and/or bad about PMBD/the anti-paysite movement. Then twice Ensign EO asked why pirates always had to be seen as such horrible people. I answered that (not in a very sensible fashion), but I think I should have let you all answer it yourself. If the mission statement that Doursim posted is anything to go by, then that is exactly the way you want to be seen. So no need to wonder.  :lol:

So tell me - exactly what have you done for freesites, or to bring paysites down - other than not paying for content?

Nothing revolutionary I guess. I create and run a site where everything is free and shareable except for pay and donation purposes. I speak out on the subject every time it comes up in any of the forums I go to, or when people email me about it. I’ve tried to dig up some information about TSR, but I don’t have enough base information to go by to find what I want.

Those who say it must be a "nice" revolution are kidding themselves - "nice" hasn't gotten you jackshit for years - and now that something is actually causing butthurt and making people talk you want nice?

No, but I’m saying that there are other and less controversial ways of convincing people to support the cause. Hecubus’ financial stats. The gathering of all available information about paysite scams. Calculations of income etc. A lot of that information is already here, but any newcomer just dropping in to check the place out would be very unlikely to stumble upon it among those pages and pages of (justified) Carla Niven-slamming and off-topic discussions. And this is not to say that the Carla Niven-slamming and off-topic discussions shouldn’t happen, just that it would be good to have the useful, convincing information more easily available.

You - I've not seen what you've done your way - the "nice" and apparently "right" way. I venture that it's nothing, but call for niceness from the people actually doing things.

Let’s just get one thing straight, here. You – you do not know who I am or what I do, so I suggest you be a little more careful with your judgements.

[Bigtruckgirl]

I suspect if you don't expand on this,

Nothing revolutionary I guess. I create and run a site where everything is free and shareable except for pay and donation purposes. I speak out on the subject every time it comes up in any of the forums I go to, or when people email me about it. I’ve tried to dig up some information about TSR, but I don’t have enough base information to go by to find what I want.

you will get a hell of a lot more of this

You - I've not seen what you've done your way - the "nice" and apparently "right" way. I venture that it's nothing, but call for niceness from the people actually doing things.

and a hell of a  lot worse.


The way it reads, is that you have a free site with the exception of having pay and donation items, which is not a free site. I don't think that is how you meant it, so I thought I would warn you.

[Hecubus]

Don't be so sure, BTG. I just got a response from Alice Fashion - who has pay sets - where she said she was a free site.

I think some site owners REALLY don't understnd that 'donation gifts' are pay items.

[redisenchanted]

Peachfish, don't get coy. If you are part of a paysite, you'd better own up, or disappear. It did sound like you run a paysite. If you don't, you'd better clarify.

If you don't like the atmosphere here, don't come. This place has a nasty reputation, but the people here for the most part are intelligent and witty. We're grown ups who don't like blinky avatars and netspeak. A few of us will jump all over racist and unfair comments.

You should ask Fresh Prince how we treated him. We knew he was an intelligent, thoughtful young person, and no one flamed him or gave him grief. We had a very thoughtful discussion about his consideration of becoming a paysite.

I am getting very tired of the "just be nice" song and dance. If you have a different approach, run with it. If you are effective, more power to you. The fact is until PMBD jabbed it's collective finger into everyone's eyes, no one was seriously debating this.

[Moune]

From a previous post

Personally I put a very liberal policy on my creations. They are free, recolorable, clonable, shareable, uploadable, redistributable, whatever-able, as long as I get credit for making them and they aren’t used for pay or donation purposes. I would be very angry and rather disappointed if one of them one day ended up on a paysite - or on a freesite, but with someone else’s name underneath it.

Hope that clears it up.

ETA:
I don't know, but it seems I keep getting myself misunderstood. My main purpose has never been to go crying 'Stop being so mean to everybody. Boo hoo hoo'. More to throw in a contribution, if you wish, as to how the anti-paysite movement could get better and gain more followers. I think PMBD is the best chance and the strongest player in that battle. So why not make it even stronger by making it more than just the booty and the EULA argument?