I read about the copyright with EA and Paysites

[Godess_Satinka]

Not everyone here thinks that creators' wishes should be ignored.

In the last weeks I have the feeling, that more and more people are thinkin it. Thats why I asked EA about the copyright.

 It's not about trying to alienate the creators

( I think most of us don't what the hell you do :lol: so long as you keep it free )

I think most of us are tired of the crap we have been through or put up with from quite a few of paysites

And I'm even pretty sure a small few of us don't even believe that all paysites are evil

[Marhis]

Creator's ownership (and credits) are - I think - a slightly different issue, that pertain any creator, free or pay.
It matters, of course, in this free vs. pay debate, but it's not the core issue. It's not easy to explain, but I'll try.

Let's say you make a skintone in BodyShop; it turns out very good. That skintone, with some adaptations, may be used by other artists/users/whatever. You decide to sell that texture on Renderosity (or whatever may apply).

An EA's lawyer may object that according to EULA you can't, because you made it with their tools.
The antipaysites guys do not give the issue a damn. It does not pertain your behavior toward community members, we are not advocating EA (or someone else's) legal rights, but unwritten rules of fellowship between members of the same community.
EULAs, laws and such are not the issue, but only the tools we have (and may use) to judge behaviors.

Not only. There's a high probability that in case of legal debate (between you and EA, so to speak) you may have support by your fellow community members, just because you are part of this community. That's the community spirit, nothing more, nothing less; and everything pertains the antipaysites movement is centered on community spirit: all the rest (laws, copyrights, EULAs, whatever) is only data, not issues.

I hope it makes sense.

[derMarcel]

It's not so much the objects, but the file fomat ( Made by Ea games ) that you put them in. The meshes, and the texteus are yours
( provied that you made them ) but a lot of codeing goes in that package file to make it acttury work,

I prefer comparing it with the wma format. When you write & sing a song and convert it into the wma-format you still have the copyright on it - not microsoft or someone else  :wink: Don't matter what any eula says. Well, all I say is based on german laws - can't say how it is handled in other countrys.

@Marhis
Sorry, I really could not understand what you meant  :oops:

[missangelica]

derMarcel, obviously someone needs to explain this all to you in your mother tongue because you are not understanding at all.

[Rissa]

I could help, but I don't think this should be done in this thread.

Marcel, wenn du Hilfe beim Übersetzen brauchst, dann sag mir bitte, was ich übersetzen soll, damit hier die Missverständnisse nicht Überhand nehmen.


About the Wikipedia article:
Endbenutzer-Lizenzverträge werden meist zu Beginn der Installation der Software angezeigt und müssen vom Benutzer akzeptiert werden, um die Installation fortzuführen. Diese EULAs sollen den Benutzer neben den üblichen Klauseln zur Wahrung des Urheberrechts oft auch zu mehr verpflichten: Bestimmte Hersteller versuchen damit z. B. zu verhindern, dass der Kunde, der das Produkt verwendet, Negatives über ihn verbreitet.

Translation:
EULAs are mostly shown at the beginning of the installation and have to be accepted by the user to proceed with the installation. These EULAs should bind the users not only to the usual clauses about the copyrightlaw but to more, too: Certain producers try e.g. to avoid that customers, who use this product, spread negative things about them.

Obwohl diese Verträge auf Laien oft sehr „offiziell“ wirken, haben sie in Europa meist keine Gültigkeit: Der Kaufvertrag ist die Grundlage für den Eigentumserwerb am Datenträger, so dass der Erwerber bereits über ein Nutzungsrecht (aus Eigentum) verfügt; zu diesem Zeitpunkt ist das EULA für den Kunden jedoch noch nicht einsehbar. Gesetzliche Regelungen, wie z. B. das Urheberrecht gelten auch ohne Erwähnung in einem EULA, darüber hinausgehende Klauseln sind ungültig.

Translation: Although these Licenses look very "officially" to the layman they most times aren't valid : the ageement for sale is the basement for the ownership of the data medium, so that the purchaser already has the right to use it as his own property; at this time the EULA isn't visible for the purchaser. Legal rights like the copyright are valid even without being mentioned in the EULA, things beyond that are invalid.

[Hecubus]

And Wikis are notoriously inaccurate.

[mando]

And Wikis are notoriously inaccurate.

Yep, using Wikipedia as the end word on anything is a foolish move. You can use it as a base for an argument, but only if you have checked out all of the sources and information listed and read through them to understand exactly what each source was getting at. I have a feeling that the "EULA is invalid in my country" argument being used here is a misunderstanding of what was originally intended.

[simminggramma]

derMarcel

I do know your work and have quite a bit of it in my game.  What I have I got from MTS2 a while back.  I don't understand any language but English, so I can't register on your site to download anything else, although I would really like more of your items.

I think you should follow the advice of all the others in this thread.  Even if you make an item in Simpe, you still have to clone a maxis object to make your item.  Without that code from the cloned item, your object is useless and that code does belong to EAMaxis.

I make dresses for little girls.  I use a pattern I purchased at a store.  There is a disclaimer that I can only use the pattern for non-commercial purposes.  Now if someone wants me to make a dress for them, they purchase the fabric (the texture, if you will).  I make the dress for them and sometimes, but not always, I receive a tip for my efforts.  I don't charge for my labor because then it would violate the commercial-use clause on the pattern.  This is my hobby and I do it for the joy that it brings to those who do not or cannot sew.

So, sell your textures, sell your meshes, but once you put it in a .package format, it becomes something you cannot sell.

[simminggramma]

sorry, double post

[Godess_Satinka]

It's not so much the objects, but the file format ( Made by Ea games ) that you put them in. The meshes, and the textures are yours
( provided that you made them ) but a lot of coding goes in that package file to make it actually work,

I prefer comparing it with the wma format. When you write & sing a song and convert it into the wma-format you still have the copyright on it - not microsoft or someone else  :wink: Don't matter what any eula says. Well, all I say is based on german laws - can't say how it is handled in other countrys.

@Marhis
Sorry, I really could not understand what you meant  :oops:

To the song, yes. With that, I completely agree. But not to the actual wma format.

Lets say I was to create a music player, and few completely new music formats including on called .putt

I state in my eula that you cannot use any file format that I made for profit. If you were to create a song and saved it as a .putt file, you wouldn't be able to sell the song. the song is yours, but the file format is not. if you were to create your own formant, or find one that allows you sell, then have at it. but as long as it's in the format .putt,  which I made, my eula and copyrights still apply

Another way I can put it is I have an empty vase.
I'll tell you what, you can have my vase, so long as you don't sell it. you can fill it with gold or water or whatever you need to fill it with. whatever is inside the vase is yours. but the vase self isn't. That's mine. and as long as your using my vase, you can't sell it.

even if you were to add to the vase or paint it or anything like that, you still cannot sell my vase, as selling the vase would be a breach of contract, and the contract is what allows you to use my vase is the first place :wink:

[Pescado]

Ultimately, the fundamental truth is that EULAe are legally dodgy documents at best and have not really had their day on court, but at the same time, what we're doing isn't prohibited by any *OTHER* laws, and nobody has managed to find an actual lawyer willing to formulate a legal C&D. As no real lawyer is willing to consider this matter seriously, nothing is done on the legal front and paysite-people primarily resort to threats and intimidation unbacked by any legal force whatsoever in an attempt to get their way. EULAe are ultimately little more than bits of sophistry and who's right or wrong is ultimately determined by those with the biggest guns.

[Randomness]

I need to say, that the fact that the eula does not mean that the software would be completely free to use/change. It only means that german laws count - not what EA says.

  :?:  I can't quite understand what you mean

I think what he's saying here is that if the EULA (or ENLA, whichever)  happens to contradict German Law that addresses the same situation,  German Law would take precedence over the EULA/ENLA. Does that make a bit more sense?

[Quinctia]

Basically, even if it's legal, you're still an asshole.  Is that clear enough now?

Want to call me an asshole? Fine - you're free to do it. But not for selling simscontent - becouse I'm actually not doing it. Start reading the posts you're answering to.

In English, "you" is both the singular and plural second person pronoun.  When I stated "you're an asshole," I was referring to people selling custom content using tools by the community meant for sharing and distributing them for a game where the publisher and company meant content to be shared.  Not you specifically, unless you personally are in that category.

There is no reason to take it personally if you are not actually doing that.  However, my statement still stands.  Even if it's legal (in Germany), if you do it, then you are an asshole (in Germany).  And it seems like you are the one having reading issues (in Germany?).  I can give a bit of allowance for not knowing all the inner bits and pieces of English, but not if you're going to get all uppity with ME because you MISREAD something I said.

[derMarcel]

Okay, I think before I make myself a complete idiot, I should probably step out of the discussion.  :wink:

If you want I can inform you what EA answered me to my question about the copyright - if they ever answer  :roll:

In English, "you" is both the singular and plural second person pronoun.  When I stated "you're an asshole," I was referring to people selling custom content using tools by the community meant for sharing and distributing them for a game where the publisher and company meant content to be shared.  Not you specifically, unless you personally are in that category.

Sorry, but I really didn't knew that. My mistake and I take back everything I said to you. :oops:

[Dr Pixel]

There are a few major flaws in the whole EULA argument which everyone seems to overlook

First, and most important, is the fact that almost ALL Sims2 sites are in violation of the EULA.  
I don't mean the part about charging for content - everyone likes to throw that one around, because it suits your purposes.

I mean thae part that says you can not "reverse engineer" or "disassemble" the software.  This means that you can not examine the game itself or it's file formats to find out how they are put together.  So, programs such as SimPE and anything made using such programs also violates the EULA.

In short, if you think paysites are doing something "illegal" because of the EULA violation, then it also follows that any site using content made using SimPE or other modding tools is also doing something "illegal"

If you are against paysites for some other reason, fine.  But all this talk about the EULA is pure BS as far as I am concerned, because you don't really care about it at all.

Oh, the other things about the EULA that are never mentioned:

Here in the US anyway, a pesron under 18 can not legally agree to a "contract" which is what the EULA is.  If I am under 18, I can click the EULA and install the game, but legally the EULA is now void.

Not to ment the fact that even if I am over 18, there is no way to prove WHO agreed to the EULA - maybe my sister installed the game, or my dad?  In that case, am I still bound by it?  Certainly not, because I could say that I never even saw it.

In case you are wondering, I do NOT run a paysite, all my stuff is available for free at various places.  But this whole EULA nonsense really puts this site in a bad light, and by extension free sites in general, and turns a lot of people away from your campaign.