Working on solution

[Lizard]

Hello all

I have been here before but since then have been thinking little about all .
Although I am not too happy with some things that are said here , but that is matter of personal taste , I can understand better what is meaning of all .

Now I guess many of you know there is many talk about pay-sites and in a way the initiative of Pirateforum and SimsVault made it easier for many people to speak more honest in this pay-site matter .
So that is all good .

But I see also some kind of statusquo , so there are 2 oposit sites/sides with different aproach , the people that share payitems on internet so like Pirateforum and SimsVault , the people who download from you , in secret or out in the open .

And on other side/site is paysites  who are of course not too happy with this cause it will lower their income .

But maybe both sides so Pirateforum and SimsVault ánd paysites can come to some kind of agreement .

For me is this . I think there is room for both and I hope that you and paysites who is reading this will read with open mind and think about it a little .
It would be a good thing if all people , so also kids with no visacard and people on budget who can't afford to buy could be included in all downloads .
And it can but then both must do effort and be real in this .

If we allow paysites to make money ( even if you don't agree ) and leave the payobject be so not share for the first period of time and give room then for site to make money .
Then , after this period of time ( I was thinking of  half year , that can be discussed) this paysite put this payobject up for free download for all so all can enjoy and make recolors , and stuff like that . And if paysite agree he will put all paystuff that is older then 1 year already up for free download and in so giving message he agree and also start dating his new paystuff . For paysites that are reading this :
You make free use of tools and promotion in this community and this is a way to include all and give something back to community and you are still able to make money .

Paysites that agree know then that their stuff is safe for that period of time and all know that they can acces this download but only little later .
The paysite could date all paystuff so it easy to see for all when it will be up for free download .

Now for you safes maybe time also cause I think this take many time now , this forum . In this you can then focus on paysites that don't agree and share only from then , safes money too .
I know this not an ideal solution for both sides but it can work if both sides could take 1 step back .

To include all people is not what is in Real Life cause there many people are excluded from nicer things but in here , if we could come to such arangement that would be cool cause then all can enjoy .

Well maybe both sides can think about this a little , and paysites could vissit here and start to talk with people here .

I hope so , anyway .

Thank you for reading , Lizard

[anoramic]

This is like asking God for world peace every night before you go to bed.

It's not going to happen. Hence why 'Paysites must be destroyed'.

[rubberdubdub]

yer cause that A gunna happen

[Anouk]

I think you're missing the point that selling sims 2 files is not really allowed, just tolerated by some and not by others. This forum contains the 'others'... It's just another way of selling payfiles in the end.

[lookatmytreasurechest]

Hello all

I have been here before but since then have been thinking little about all .
Although I am not too happy with some things that are said here , but that is matter of personal taste , I can understand better what is meaning of all .

Now I guess many of you know there is many talk about pay-sites and in a way the initiative of Pirateforum and SimsVault made it easier for many people to speak more honest in this pay-site matter .
So that is all good .

But I see also some kind of statusquo , so there are 2 oposit sites/sides with different aproach , the people that share payitems on internet so like Pirateforum and SimsVault , the people who download from you , in secret or out in the open .

And on other side/site is paysites  who are of course not too happy with this cause it will lower their income .

But maybe both sides so Pirateforum and SimsVault ánd paysites can come to some kind of agreement .

For me is this . I think there is room for both and I hope that you and paysites who is reading this will read with open mind and think about it a little .
It would be a good thing if all people , so also kids with no visacard and people on budget who can't afford to buy could be included in all downloads .
And it can but then both must do effort and be real in this .

If we allow paysites to make money ( even if you don't agree ) and leave the payobject be so not share for the first period of time and give room then for site to make money .
Then , after this period of time ( I was thinking of  half year , that can be discussed) this paysite put this payobject up for free download for all so all can enjoy and make recolors , and stuff like that . And if paysite agree he will put all paystuff that is older then 1 year already up for free download and in so giving message he agree and also start dating his new paystuff . For paysites that are reading this :
You make free use of tools and promotion in this community and this is a way to include all and give something back to community and you are still able to make money .

Paysites that agree know then that their stuff is safe for that period of time and all know that they can acces this download but only little later .
The paysite could date all paystuff so it easy to see for all when it will be up for free download .

Now for you safes maybe time also cause I think this take many time now , this forum . In this you can then focus on paysites that don't agree and share only from then , safes money too .
I know this not an ideal solution for both sides but it can work if both sides could take 1 step back .

To include all people is not what is in Real Life cause there many people are excluded from nicer things but in here , if we could come to such arangement that would be cool cause then all can enjoy .

Well maybe both sides can think about this a little , and paysites could vissit here and start to talk with people here .

I hope so , anyway .

Thank you for reading , Lizard

Paysite owners would just argue that people wouldn't donate cause they'd rather wait the 6 mos to get it for free......

[Randomness]

And Lizard, you're completely ignoring the whole reason that the files are hosted here in the first place (as was mentioned by Nouk): Sims 2 files aren't permitted to be sold at all under any circumstance. Breaking the law is still breaking the law, regardless if you try to "compromise" with people or not.

It's nice that you're at least trying to be civil this time around, but I'm afraid that there's really no middle ground in this issue that I can see.

[Noodles]

If it was legal to sell such items you would have a very good arguement.  I would agree with you that such a compromise would be an excellent idea however it is not the case.  

Another arguement that is not confronted by your comment was the fact that after you purchase something, it's your choice what you do with that item because at that point it's yours.  You OWN said item.  A great example was when Chrysler designed the new 300M.  People started putting "ragtops" on their vehicles, much to the chagrin of the designers.  As much as they wanted to ban people from doing such things (and yes, they looked terrible imho), it wasn't their choice to force them not to.  Same thing applies here. If Blue and others want to share THEIR items, then it's their option to do so regardless of whether the creators agree with their choice or not.

[yippee]

I agree with replies above to your idea Lizard, but it's gonna be ugly no matter how we cut it.  As said by Denimjo, there's really no middle ground in this issue.

[Lizard]

Well , I know the idea sounds little like Sound of Music tune and I am not missing your point , I just ad another view .

The way I see is this .
People who make stuff ánd want to make money with this,  are most of time more stimulated to make good stuff cause well , it has to be so atractive that people give money for this .
I think you can see logic in this , it is just like in Real Life .

So , if they could open up to this idea so still make some money , make use of free tools and promotion provided by the rest of community ( like it is already happening now) ánd after some time put up for free download then it will bennefit whole community .
Because people can make recolors of that , put up for download , so like that .
Paysites that are willing to do that can come in here and talk about this .

If you could open up to this idea or at least considder to open up , hehehe ( I am being careful here ) then both sides can maybe make step to eachother .

Because I see like this also . I can understand about this sharing but in long run it will discourage people to make cool stuff .
Not all paysites will go for this of course but like I said before then you can focus more on those sites and maybe whole community can help then to ignore updates from those sites .

Some updatesites are doing updates now for free sites only or give more atention so I guess this means , more people are now more in understanding all of this .

You can go the hard way , of course but then more and more sites will close or let themselves be bought .

I know is not ideal solution and both sides have to do 1 step back but I really think in long run it will bennefit more people then now.
Cause this would also mean that kids and people on low budget can have free acces to all downloads , only little later then the paying crowd .
Paysites keep motivated cause their products are more protected and this could safe all lot of money .

I think it can be done  

Julie Andrews

[Max_The_Repairman]

<long crazy rant>
Well, it would be nice if people didn't occasionally come to the point where they realize that they can get away with selling things they make to people for far more than they're worth, whether because they feel they need the money, or need to recoup on that $250+ in cash given to EA for the Sims games, or because the flashing blinking site of death they've made is now taking up too much space for Geocities.

The problem is, the idea of 'wait six months and it'll be free' has been tried by The Sims Resource. Their original business model promised that 3% of the site content would be free at any given time, and the free 3% would rotate on a weekly basis. So, in theory, in 34 weeks, you could get everything! Right?

Wrong. As many people have noted, the 'rotation' was erratic, poorly managed, and often would unlock items without required parts. Furthermore, the only thing this really caused was the "Bandwidth Bitchslap"; when a smart user DID get in, they'd immediately download EVERY object, regardless of quality, so that their investment wouldn't go to waste. Imagine a few dozen users downloading the entire site on the same day.

Actually, you don't have to imagine. Prior to TSR's declaration that they were making everything but their FA content free-access, they had a period where 100,000 items (or something like that) were free at the same time. The entire site bogged heavily. Why? I'd guess because people made mad runs to grab as much of this content as they could before the ivory tower doors slammed closed again.  I'm willing to bet that in the first week or two after their 'everything but the FA is free' announcement, another massive spike occurred as users rushed to grab it under the assumption that TSR's limited generosity wasn't likely to last long.

I think that as a general rule, this scheme HAS been tried. And failed. People won't make an object free while selling it is still incurring revenue, and some people won't pay for an object ever if they can get the same or a similar object for free.

As a side note, I think that if people have to make a business out of Simming, they should be receiving a fair share of the profits. I've never heard of a Sim site that went like this:

"Okay, we earned $555 from our subscribers, and $320 from our advertisements. Each of our creators gets a share of whatever money doesn't go towards keeping the site running."

Instead, it's shadow conspiracies, behind-the-scenes wrangling, and currying favor. And that shit just ain't kosher, and puts everyone off the concept. You show me a pay site that's actually worth more money than the next Sims expansion pack, though, and I'll show you a group of modders that should be applying for a job at EA instead of trying to bilk people into buying the modified game code they've come up with.

And then there's the argument that once a person realizes they can make money for selling ANYTHING, they stop putting effort into making good objects, and start focusing on quantity instead of quality, thus making paysites responsible for degradation of quality and lack of community improvement.

Honestly, I'd love nothing more than to explain the following to site creators: "People are going to prefer free objects. No, this doesn't mean that you can order people to click the ads. That's against most ad sites' terms of service. People expect quality in pay objects. This doesn't mean that you should charge more for a single object than a single object in a Stuff Pack costs, unless your object is truly Greater-Than-Maxis-Quality. If it breaks the game, you definitely can't make money from it. And just because Maxis sometimes releases broken content doesn't mean people are going to be just as content to pay for yours!" And so on.

Pay sites could work in theory. In practice, the Sims is one of the few games where people have actually gone out of their way to embrace the concept. Most people settle for donations, or if they can't make ends meet and can't afford to spend money on their hobby, they host at a free site or go find something better to do with their time. And with people quite used to being able to download custom content for their other games for free, sites like this will continue to proliferate to handle those who choose to sell game modifications.

</end long crazy rant>

[Captain Feathersword]

I've got a suggestion.
How about your paysite making a goodwill gesture and offering their own old payfiles free, just to prove you mean it.

[Quinctia]

All money does is encourage quantity over quality, so I hope no one makes any money.  

(Breaking even is fine. )

[dorquemada]

Because I see like this also . I can understand about this sharing but in long run it will discourage people to make cool stuff .

Indeedy? Well, as far as I know, all cool stuff has been and still is totally free. SimPE? Free. CEP? Why, free. MATY's hacks? Free! Insim, Squinge's hacks? Free like a freest thing under the free blue sky!

...or perhaps by cool stuff you meant clothes, furniturses, houses? Then   looks like our logicses come from different galaxies, because I don't see anything cool about stuff, of which you can find free substitutes that are mostly of the same quality and quite often way better.


You don't have to capitalize real life, you know. Last time I checked it, it's not a game.

[calalily]

The reality is that paysites will find ways to worm out of their promises to the community, just as TSR did. They're not really interested in keeping this sort of thing out of the way, but rather keeping it quiet - that's how they co-opt Delphy and others into banning links to this site.

I agree about the indispensable things - the things people need being free - and they are indispensable because they are brilliant.  

Paysites would just find a way to say - oh no - these files are the real money spinners, and therefore will be locked behind the golden curtain. And if you proposed this to TSR, they would just say Oh - the kudos system - contribute to the evil and you can have one free day in 2009.

[anelca]

in addition to the legalities and the greed...

the game is primarily aimed at young people, just the player who generally doesn't have the wherewithall to pay for items they might like to have in their game. Equally there are people who plain cannot afford to pay for a subscription and even paying for a few single items soon mounts up.

why should these players be deprived of custom content? (quality aside)

and yes they could make their own but it requires some degree of talent, something not everyone possesses