More Smutty Than You: TSR's Hall of Shame

[kathy]

Mii that will be addressed by tomorrow night. Jojo go check mod discussion and then hit me on msn.

[Jojoba]

Mmm ok..will be on in a couple of minutes

[Mi-Chii]

God, I don't know what half the goslings are called on here *pokes the jojoba* Who's you?

[Saraswati]

Kathy I for one are glad you are back.. and having struggled through dramas myself (but not on that scale) I can understand you wanting your simming home to have more peace and quiet to it. Everyone needs to give Kathy time to get her head around things because from what I'm picking up there's a lot going on, much of it messy. More than I'd want to deal with personally.

Guys, keep in mind, this site is not really under the rug all that much these days..  When you've got simmers freely sharing the link on the BBS it's become part of common knowledge. Most of the active simming community are likely aware of here by now, or know someone who is.. You'd have more to worry about if the site had a tiny bandwidth and the link wasn't being shared informally, everywhere..

[redisenchanted]

Thanks for coming here and explaining a bit Kathy. I do hope you can achieve real neutrality. Now that paden is a mod, I'm encouraged. I hope you will have an open policy on links, allowing both file-sharing and paysite links. You could stop both, but that would be a pain to enforce. It's your site, you need to run it as you see fit.

Eric should not feel that he has to update insiminator, you should not feel that you have to maintain the site either, but when people don't have any information, speculation runs rampant. None of us needed to know your personal business, still don't.

I hope insim keeps going, I love all the content there. More importantly, I hope your life is calming down a bit now.

[Paden]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys. I wasn't meaning to come off like a bitch or anything, I hope you can accept my apologies if I did. It's gonna be a trip, two pirate mods against a pro-pay site mod, though. Wish me luck, I may just need it...

[glasscigarette]

You'll do great, Paden. We all know you can hold your own. 

And use this whenever necessary. It will protect you.

[Frank]

Paden, to qoute a song title....

LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR

Ladies & Gentlemen.........LETS GET READY TO RUUMMMMBLLLLLEEEE!

Go for the jugular, pal!

And Kathy, nice to have you back, and um, you might have to hose Insim off once the blood stops flying,lol.

[Zazazu]

As I stated above everything isn't set in stone as of yet. Prior to my posting I was already discussing going a certain route and will be finalized by tomorrow night to give everyone on the staff an oppurtunity to give their input. The only reason I posted in this thread is because someone suggested I do so otherwise I wouldn't have seen it.

Just a bit of advice, but in the future you might want to keep potentially controversial new policies that haven't been fully decided on in debate in a private section before posting it where the masses can see it, then saying that you are discussing it when people hem & haw. It makes you look like you don't know your own mind, or you're just backing down under pressure.

The paysite issue is a biggie, and coming up with your own stance takes time. How you are going to handle a site full of simmers coming from different backgrounds should take even more time. Give yourself that time to think, discuss, and make the decision about the public policy you would like to endorse before posting multiple revisions with potentially misleading language.


Paden, I think you're reading a lot stronger tone into everyone's messages since Kathy's a friend. Only natural. I don't think anyone's attacking Kathy or trying to bring InSim down.

[Quinctia]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to attack Kathy, either.  But more pointing out that I think some of the drama of the issue is with a few people currently on the site who can't agree to disagree.  I personally think the best compromise is letting people link to content anywhere it's available.  Including paysites, the booty, the graveyard, some mediafire link a person uploaded things to because you have to prove you're a Korean citizen to access the original forum the content is on, etc.  "I have that file, it's by ____, if you can't find it on their site, let me send it to you!" is just what the CC thing should be about.

Sharing is caring, after all!  And I just think having a laissez-faire attitude about that sort of thing is the best.

Though, I will say this--we're in the TSR Smuttiness thread, and it exists for a reason.  There is a hell of a lot of bad shit going down behind the scenes at TSR, and I think it would be a damn shame if any place that wants to try and keep the members of its community happy and educated would censor any discussion of the sort.  I understand wanting to keep drama and gossip down to a minimum.  But it is a fact that TSR is not particularly kid-safe (no biggie, they just claim to be is the issue), treats its creators like dirt, inserts crappy file-tracking spyware of a sort into its downloads, and...I know you've got at least one person in power over there that makes for one big conflict of interest, and all the downloaders out there honestly deserve to be informed instead of just happily sent there to waste money and get borked files.

[Saraswati]

Quincita I think the trouble is, it's Kathy's site to run as she likes.. it's not that she's not sympathetic.. but she's tired and we're lucky to have her at all right now.

It's like a soldier metaphor, and it's actually a really apt metaphor in this situation. Very few people stay on the front lines of a fight forever.. they need to go back to the rear area, or go on some leave, have some r and r. The paysite debate is like that. People do get worn out of it and want to back away sometimes but they're going to be much more receptive about coming back and discussing it again if they feel like they're going to get a warm welcome when they come back.

[Quinctia]

You can say that you don't want to hear the arguments and still be fair to both sides.  Look at S2C.  It can work.  And it breeds a lot less resentment.  You can be appreciative of someone's presence and not have an issue with them personally, and still disagree with their approach and offer suggestions.  However, it's hard to be all rainbows and sunshine to someone who comes storming over here, saying this site hasn't accomplished anything in one sentence, while claiming you want to avoid drama in the next.  That's not avoiding drama, that's actively courting it.

And I think it's seriously excessive to compare a debate on the internet to actually fighting in a war.  Or any debate, for that matter.  It's not impossible to agree to disagree, but when you do that, you have to also agree to live and let live.  If I'm posting on S2C, and someone mentions a paysite, I don't scream about paysites being evil.  I may offer an alternative link, but there's no harm in that.

(Finally, the issues with TSR now go way beyond them charging for content, and it would be terrible for any discussion or criticism as such to be lost in the "paysite debate."  TSR would be kinda sucky and creepy behind the scenes if it were free, let's all be honest here. )

[calalily]

Guys, keep in mind, this site is not really under the rug all that much these days.

That doesn't mean that we say "all done" and stop bothering. PMBD got where it did because many of us *didn't give up* and say okay, fair enough.

I stand by what I said.  I don't see neutrality - no matter who is mod vs. mod.  If it's "welcome to the new site, same as the old site" there is really no place for pirates there at all - just like there wasn't before. I don't expect change, but don't expect me to dance in the streets either.

[Anouk]

You can forbid pay/free debate like any other unwanted debate. Moderate it like any other unwanted thing. Then leave people to decide for themselves if they link to freesites, paysites, filesharing sites. That is fair to everyone on the site and not just a group.

[Saraswati]

Quincita, it's about the fact that people in most cases can't go on forever in the middle of a fight.. and most people don't. Usually they just go fade away from this site and you'll never see them again. But they're not a big siteowner like Kathy. People get tired and want their life to move on.. and it's her site and it's her right.. same as it's Pescado's right to host in Malaysia or that FF siteowner's right to close her site because she's having a tanty. The truth is, most free siteowners are more like Kathy and they keep the topic off their site.. not because they're not sympathetic, they are. It's just they get tired and they don't want to fight anymore.

Cala, I think the key would probably be to give Kathy some time to sort stuff out, then we can talk about it again.. That way she doesn't end up feeling defensive and when she's done sorting out what's going on at Insim, maybe we can discuss it with her again? People usually don't have constructive discussions about this issue when emotions run high.