I smell bullshit

[AnneBonny]

Eloquently put, Pariland.

Oh you know me so well. :roll:

Wouldn't that just make your day if that was actually true? Why then you could have actually something of interest to write into your diary for a change!  

[Marhis]

Yes, TSR sells a service, I agree. Good or bad it's not my business, it's up to customer's choices to pay that service or not.

According to your statements, TSR product is service. I agree again.
What I fail to understand is who is stealing TSR products and where this happens.
You said we are stealing your stuff, but in the same post you also said that PMBD doesn't have the service you (TSR) offer. So... who and where is stealing/copying/whatever your product? Please, clarify.

So far, what I see is a site (this) which offers a different service (bare ftp), for different price (free). Following the same arguments you previously wrote, it's called business competition, at the very end.

So, go on selling your product, why not? This doesn't stops me, however, to support a different and cheaper service for the same files (which is not your products, you said that), assuming that it's legal, as I believe.
In the same way, this doesn't stops me to tell other former and wannabe consumers that there are other choices, and not some sort of mandatory monopoly, and openly spread this informations wherever I want and whenever I want.
This is called, instead, consumer rights defense. And advertisement, as well.

(Edited because I suck and posted the last phrase not complete)

[jfade]

Is there some concerted TSR effort to infiltrate this site today? How come these patsies all signed up today?

Well, there's no effort that I know of. *Shrugs* I've been meaning to sign up for a while anyhow, just because I tend to register at a lot of Sims forums and I don't have any direct objection to this place.

I may be a forum mod for TSR, but I have nothing to do with the downloads part of the site. Additionally, I like to think of myself as an individual and a contributer to the community (My site is http://www.djssims.com/ for anyone who doesn't know) so I hope that the simple fact that I moderate some of the forums at TSR doesn't make everyone here have a horrible impression on me.

[Pescado]

Sure, you have the booty! but PMBD does not even come close to offering what TSR does.  TSR provides a comprehensive database through which anyone can conveniently search for specific downloads.

TSR offers a pain in the neck database that can only be offered manually. We offer a standardized directory listing you can mass-dump with any number of programs and scripts out there. Our layout is highly efficient and allows people to quickly find and get the droids they're looking for. No crappy slow-loading unnecessary front end.

TSR provides a service; they give subscribers the downloading wizard, they update the site frequently, they offer such variety, the fun challenge wizard, the community, etc.  You don't appreciate the censorship, but many parents do (It's called marketing :wink: ).  And sure, I don't know why they don't like for people to try to discuss "business" on their forums.  It's none of our business how they run their company.  Maybe they like to keep that kind of thing private.  Lots of companies do.

I hate marketers, you know that? Bunch of lying bullshit artists, that's all they are.

So I was wondering... could you design, build, maintain, staff, and run a site like TSR for free?  Because that would be amazing.  I'd love to see you do it, Pescado.  Your generosity has always been something to admire.  (I'm not being sarcastic... I love your work)

*LIKE* TSR? Why the hell would I want to do that? TSR is a crappy site. Navigating the place is absolutely and positively Byzantine. Better than TSR? Absolutely.

[liegenschonheit]

I didn't even know you are a mod at TSR, Jfade. I only knew you as the person who makes useful things and pokes around at MATY from time to time.

Personally, I like to deal with everyone who comes here as their own person, regardless of where they choose to spend their time. In several cases, there have been paysite owners who have come here and expressed their opinion coherently, engaged in intelligent debate, and I can honestly say that I have no problems whatsoever with them personally. In previous cases, most of the people who post here can be very civil, even to people they disagree with, if the situation warrants it.

Also, I agree with Pescado. I don't want another TSR! I personally hate the way the database is set up. Yes, I will admit that the abolition of zips-within-zips has improved things greatly, but I honestly prefer Delphy's free services to TSR's for-profit services.

[Captain Feathersword]

BabaJayne if you're not getting any of the profits, why are you helping Thomas? He really does have a good thing going there, most of his "staff" are voluntary and even go out into the bad scary places to defend his right to make as much money as he can from the sheep even though he doesn't share it.
I am unable to admire him for it as I find that sort of behaviour despicable, but I do stare in wonder. How can they not see that he is taking advantage of them?

[sickpuppy]

jfade,

It hasn't been lost on any of us here what you contribute to the sims community and do so for FREE, mod at TSR or not .

I have blown your horn for you in several of these redundant threads. Your programs rock and we love you for them.

If anyone deserves to charge for their content it's you and JM and twojeffs and Quaxi et al etc etc. So many to name....none of the names that belong to those that make CC with Quaxi's 'intellectual property' which he offers for FREE and then gets 'personalized' to suit indivdual tastes easily with your 'intellectual properties' which you offer for FREE.

Paysiteowners/participants should hang their heads in shame for the lies and greed that they display/promote. They should make public apologies to everyone in this community and offer their content for FREE for evermore to make amends. OR they might make some HUGH 'donations' to those that made the very creation of the content possible
[insert everyone's name that gives freely here.]

[neriana]

I smell bullshit. :roll:

Do tell. It's spewing forth from your mouth a mile a minute. Is TSR being threatened by The Site That Must Not Be Named? Will your 'job' be taken away if TSR ceases to bring in more customers? Is that why you are here "Miss Invisible" of TSR fuming and foaming to get into Tom's good graces to finally become noticed? How charming.  

As if that had anything to do with it.  I've never created a damn thing, you're free to check.

It doesn't matter anyway.  The average person is going to use TSR, not come here.  I don't feel threatened by you.  In fact, the people higher than me are laughing at you.

Me, I'm just trying to relate.  I do like to keep an open mind.  But these are some things I thought I'd mention, do you have an open mind?

You have "people higher than you"?! THAT is what is wrong with paysites. They fuck up the community with hierarchical shit. Go away. Then maybe the community for this game will cease being quite so laughably pathetic.

[BlueSoup]

Babajayne - I've merged your posts together.  From what I hear, you're quite the forum nazi at TSR, and double posting apparently warrants a tongue-lashing from you.  See to it that it doesn't happen here, m'kay?

[Surelyfunke]

I smell bullshit. :roll:

Do tell. It's spewing forth from your mouth a mile a minute. Is TSR being threatened by The Site That Must Not Be Named? Will your 'job' be taken away if TSR ceases to bring in more customers? Is that why you are here "Miss Invisible" of TSR fuming and foaming to get into Tom's good graces to finally become noticed? How charming.  

AnneBonny wins the Hit-The-Nail-On-The-Head prize! :lol:

[Pariland]

Is there some concerted TSR effort to infiltrate this site today? How come these patsies all signed up today?

Do you mean like that concerted effort to "eat up the bandwidth" at this site?  Also known as The Festival of Hypocrites and Liars

[toomanyguppys]

Sure, you have the booty! but PMBD does not even come close to offering what TSR does.  TSR provides a comprehensive database through which anyone can conveniently search for specific downloads.

TSR is a slow, ugly, ad-infested mess.  And sometimes the ads are virus invested.  Thank GOD PMBD doesn't offer any of that.

It's all about convenience.

You're joking, right?  The only convenient thing about TSR is how easy it is to not go there.

 No one would download any TSR downloads off your booty without viewing them on TSR first.  Therefore, your site leeches off TSR

Is that what they're telling you, or did you come up with such a blanket statement all by yourself?  It's incorrect. Firstly, it would be easier/quicker/more convenient/less annoying to download something here and view it on my own comp than to fight the ads and try and find it on TSR to view it first.  Secondly, it's not as if the pictures on TSR are any real indication of what something will look like ingame anyway--so why bother looking at them there? Waste of time.

TSR provides a service; they give subscribers the downloading wizard, they update the site frequently, they offer such variety, the fun challenge wizard, the community, etc.

I don't think anyone here cares if TSR charges for that stuff, though I'm not sure why anyone wants most of it.

 You don't appreciate the censorship, but many parents do (It's called marketing :wink: ).

The censorship at TSR is interesting to say the least.  We know that the boards must be kept happy-smiley-pro-tsr, and that ostensibly the content is censored--like no nipples on skintones (which is idiotic, but nm.) Then again, you have the results you get from certain searches of the content, such as the phrase "sexy teen."  Marketing indeed. It's called hypocrisy, among other things.  :wink:  

 And sure, I don't know why they don't like for people to try to discuss "business" on their forums.  It's none of our business how they run their company.  Maybe they like to keep that kind of thing private.  Lots of companies do.

Now here is a case of a sheep pulling the wool over her OWN eyes.  Would you like to know why they don't like "business" being discussed?  I'll bet in your heart of hearts you DON'T want to know why. Ignorance is bliss and you seem really happy.  And yet, you seem to realize that it IS a business, and that they are hiding things purposely, and attempting to control the spread of information. Doesn't this tell you anything?  C'mon, think hard now...

So I was wondering... could you design, build, maintain, staff, and run a site like TSR for free?  Because that would be amazing.

That would be MTS2 and it's been done already--except much better than TSR, because MTS2 isn't full of ads, doesn't have 200 recolors of the same damn thing to wade through, shows actual ingame screenshots in most cases, has larger pictures so that quality (or lack thereof) isn't hidden, and, oh yeah, is free.

To me, this isn't an issue of selling custom content at all.  This is selling a database.  And paysites have every right to charge for it if they put up a good website.

If the features and whatnot that TSR has are as good as you think, then they ought to be able to stay afloat simply by taking freely-given donations and charging subscription for the extra features, while making the downloads free-for-all then, right? Nope, probably not.  So yes, call it what you like, but it's an issue of selling custom content.  Period.

[icedwhitemocha]

Baba-whatever, go back to Thomas, tell him he's a fucking asshole.  M'kay, pumpkin?

There is a general implied understanding when creating game content (and you don't work for a gaming company) that it is a hobby and not a job.  If you want to make it a job, go apply at a gaming company, don't try to illegally sell EA-derived works to poor, unsuspecting players who don't know any better.

Thank you, Blue.  First for making me laugh out loud, and then for saying exactly what I was going to say in my post.  

THIS IS A HOBBY.  YOU DON'T WORK FOR EA.  YOU DIDN'T DESIGN THE CODE EMBEDDED IN EVERY ONE OF YOUR CREATIONS THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THEM TO WORK.  MAXIS DID.

I apologize for shouting.

Also, we keep getting accused of stealing.  Stealing intellectual property (which is what CC amounts to, same as music or artwork or written materials), at least in this community, generally means taking credit for another artist's work.  Who's doing that here???

[NeptuneSuzy]

BlueSoup: And TSR isn't a large corporation?

Hi BlueSoup, no TSR isn't a large corporation. EA, IBM, Citicorp etc are large corporations. EULA's are there in practice to protect a company (such as EA) from it's competitors.... in this case other large gaming corporations. TSR is a tiny tiny company in the corporate world and of no threat to EA. As a matter of fact EA encourages sites like TSR because they help keep the lifespan of Sims2 going longer. I would speculate that EA would also encourage a site such as PMBD to continue since PMBD also helps to keep the lifespan of the game going, and that is EA's only goal.....sell the game and make a profit.

Bottom line is that EA could care less what we're doing with the files as long as CC is keeping the game alive and the game is being talked about etc.

In some ways EA is the enemy here..........  

toomanyguppys: Personally, I don't beleive what this site is doing IS wrong, nor do I believe it's illegal--or, if it is, EA themselves have been committing the same crime with the Exchange. You'd think their lawyers would have already told them to stop it if there was a possible problem, but hey, who knows.

EA knows they can not copy an individual's originally created bitmap, but EA is a large corporationa and well aware that no individual can afford to bring a suit against them. But you can be damn sure that if some very wealthy individual creator made a bitmap that was copied to the exchange, and that wealthy creator threatened to bring a suit to EA then EA would pull that file off the exchange.    

toomanyguppys: On another note, I'm a little confused on the issue of TSR FA's, so maybe someone can help me out here.
If they are NOT making decent money from being TSR FA's, then why ARE they TSR FA's? Doesn't it bother them that certain other people ARE making a good chunk of change off their creations? There's got to be some kind of perks involved somehow that are more than "oh I like the people," because that's just dumb, and the FA's strike me as smarter than that.

It may sound lame (or just dumb) but " I like the people" IS the reason I'm still at TSR. I really enjoy the downloaders over there, and some of the other creators also. OK, I admit it sounds lame.......but it's true.  
And about the money, like I said earlier, it's not big bucks....not even close. Truth is that it wouldn't even pay my phone bill! LOL!  

idtaminger: Is there some concerted TSR effort to infiltrate this site today? How come these patsies all signed up today?

Yikes, I hope I'm not a patsie now! LOL!
I've actually been following this site for quite a while now.....I'm a bit of a lurker!  Earlier today I decided to start posting, frankly it took me until today to get the nerve to post because, being a TSR FA, I was afraid of those potential rocks flying my way, LOL!
Anyway, I'm definately no-one's patsie and my views given so far are completely my own..... I am certainly not speaking for TSR, it's not my company......

[BlueSoup]

Well, thank you, NeptuneSuzy, for being a breath of fresh air in the barrage of hate coming from TSR.  We've just about given up on any intelligent debate from anyone there...

Okay, I see what you mean about the large corporation.  I guess when you're thinking in those giant terms, it's a small company.  The fact is, though, that it is still a company, and they are making a pretty penny off what you create for them.

But you're right, EA doesn't give a damn what is happening with paysites, or this site and others like it, as long as people are buying the game and no one is suing them.  Which is why I said we can debate the issue all we like, but in the end, paysites aren't going away, and neither is this site.  Filesharing sites and groups have been around for a long time, it just happens to be that Pescado was the first one to make it so big, showy and public like this.  But SFV has had its share of drama in the past from irate site owners as well.

I don't necessarily blame you for wanting to stay with people you know, but I do hope you also post all your TSR content on your site for free, if you haven't already.  

You know I was banned from there, and my profile removed, but they kept my content I had uploaded there and I have no way to delete it?  Whatever happened to "creator rights"?  :roll: