Take a look at this!

[Saraswati]

Solander

What I have noticed about these guys, and I've been watching this board for six months before I decided to join, is that they're very careful to leave free sites well alone. Hecubus has even yelled about it on more than one occasion. The way that I interprit it is more that they seem to have decided that if the paysites have decided to withdraw from community spirit that they then will not treat them with any respect in return..

So this is not a war against people wanting to have some control over their files so much as a war against people who turn a hobby into a business..

Angha

[scribble]

Angha Tyl, in this case your view arn´t  different than mine. Im also a creator, (featured and moomoo awarded at mts). People here arn´t created in the total same shape.

[Solander]

This didn't apply to pay sites in specific. It was more a general posting regarding respect within a community. And the "threat" to focus on "filesharing is the king, attack anyone, that does not allow it". If this would be the case and anything of our content would be uploaded to the booty, i would be really, really pissed. As this would show, that it's not a community thing but a personal war against anyone, that does not like to accept the rules of a single group within that community.

Solander, this is "Paysites must be destroyed" and not "Filesharing is good" Doesn't that answer your question?

It does. But if i do read phrases like "it's just not funny enough" as reason, why our stuff is not also uploaded to the booty, i do ask myself, what saves me from being the next, if someone gets bored and is looking for 2nd class fun.

[Saraswati]

Scribble, so you know what I mean about the respect thing? It just comes from the place that if it's my hobby, I want to feel like it's a nice place to be and that I'm doing the right thing by those around me..  I beleive in the respect thing or my hobby isn't worth doing.

 But if i do read phrases like "it's just not funny enough" as reason, why our stuff is not also uploaded to the booty, i do ask myself, what saves me from being the next, if someone gets bored and is looking for 2nd class fun.

Solander I think technically there's never a hundred percent ironclad guaruntee that it would never happen, because there are a whole variety of people in the community, and some on the exchange who have interesting morals indeed.. however..

It took something like three years and a massive argument on MTS to bring the community to the point where Pescado took this step. People had to be really annoyed with the paysites to make them want to do this, they didn't do it just because they felt like sharing the files. They did it because they were angry at hurt at a specific bit of the community.

I don't see you generating that kind of ire just from being concerned with your files.. I've seen HP go through the same concern on here, and she seems to have settled in knowing that these guys admire and respect her. These guys actually admire and respect free creators a great deal.. And anyone who is actively involved in the community will generally respect someone who goes out their way to share their stuff just because they love the hobby and it's the right thing to do..

And I have also seen these guys for one, get really angry when they've seen people share free files from people like Enyela.. These guys are actually the last people who will do the wrong thing by the free creators.

What I'm saying is, if you're sharing your files for free and you're a good creator, most people will want to look after you just because it feels like the right thing to do.

Angha

[Saraswati]

*edited to fix double post cos it was too late to delete it*

[scribble]

Angha Tyl, I think excactly the same way as you do.

[Bigtruckgirl]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd also place my views in this one...

I think EA is just back peddled. Trying to get out of the pissing match between Paysites and places like PMBD. I really think they don't want to be in it and are trying to give paysites something, and yet not take anything from us. If they had wanted it 100% iron clad, they would have said no filesharing. Until they do, I plan on staying the course. All they have done with this change is muddied the water even more. It is a shame really, they had the opportunity to make everything crystal clear and they didn't.

I'm not going to go back and quote everything I want to comment on, but I will this one because I agree with it. I very much agree

So this is not a war against people wanting to have some control over their files so much as a war against people who turn a hobby into a business.

In the grand scheme of things, this is where I stand. I find it appalling that paysites take a hobby, and some make a living off of it, really selling nothing tangible. This is as bad as my kid begging me for Runscape money and expecting that I pay for that Runescape money with real money. When I purchase something, I want to see it, be able to hold it on my hand and know that it is real. I also expect when I purchase something to get customer service, not a run around if there is a problem or a "tough luck. we don't guarantee anything." You do me like that and you are going to get burned in real life. I'm not very nice when I get mad. I can be a real bitch and I know how to get a refund, I usually don't loose either.


Mikey, I will agree that Cala's figures are off a bit. I'd say 50% know for sure that paysites are the biggest scam that ever hit a video game, 20% have their heads up a paysite owner's ass and thinks that it is OK, and the other 30% simply are not informed and are clueless. I know a few short months ago, I was one of that 30%. I had no idea that there was free CC. I thought I had to pay for it, unless you got it off the exchange or MTS2.

See, I am usually a console gamer, and still am in a big way. We have 2 of the major 3 consoles right now. Sims 2 is the first PC game I have had in quite a few years, and I only got that this past Christmas (now I have all the expansions and stuffs packs). I have never, ever in my gaming experience thought about paying for custom content until I hit the Sims. I know other games provide it, but the logic of paying for pixels just escapes me when I now know that there are free sites out there and the Booty. I honestly think that the 30% lost in this argument would side with that reasoning vs. the Paysite reasoning.


and one last comment, well really a question because maybe I am not understanding Solander. Solander, why would anyone need to file share something that is already shared, for free on a free site? That makes not sense. Am I understanding your statement?

[Saraswati]

Scribble, ah thank you.. I feel like less of a voice in the wilderness.. In some of the yelling in the last few months I'd started to think that I was an out of place moderate.

[Solander]

and one last comment, well really a question because maybe I am not understanding Solander. Solander, why would anyone need to file share something that is already shared, for free on a free site? That makes not sense. Am I understanding your statement?

it's the definition of filesharing in combination with the strictness of you guys, that disturbs me.

As i have read and seen, the donation gift, which is offered by numenor, is included in the booty just for being pay. despite the really, really HUGE amount of work, that he donated to the community and the fact, that everyone can choose, how much he would like to donate on his site.

As someone did post, it's because it is not free available to all and therefor has to be included in the botty. A shame in my eyes, but it follows the logic behind it.

If some people now do focus on "nobody did say, we are not allowed to fileshare" and if this new rule is exactly as strict as the old, this means, that everyone, that does not allow filesharing (and i HATE filesharing for the reasons pointed out above) becomes a candidate for the booty.

[MizzKitty]

Mikey, I will agree that Cala's figures are off a bit. I'd say 50% know for sure that paysites are the biggest scam that ever hit a video game, 20% have their heads up a paysite owner's ass and thinks that it is OK, and the other 30% simply are not informed and are clueless. I know a few short months ago, I was one of that 30%. I had no idea that there was free CC. I thought I had to pay for it, unless you got it off the exchange or MTS2.

Uhm, I think you are talking about numbers within the TS2 community, which is all very well, but the original estimates were for the entire gaming community. See, there are other games than Sims out there

*ducks before BTG takes a swing at her*

Generally, Solander and everyone else being confused about what we stand for, PMBD has a goal, but the reasoning varies a great deal from person to person. Legal, moral, "we just want booty"... There's all kinds here.

Pescado being Pescado shouldn't concern you so much. He's just covering his own ass so he won't get a reputation of trying to do the right thing. Even if he should get bored and look for new people to bug, free sites simply aren't worth the effort as everything is already out in the open and he wouldn't actually be likely to get the attention he'd want from his efforts. He'd likely just find a new cause to annoy people with instead.

[Bigtruckgirl]

Uhm, I think you are talking about numbers within the TS2 community, which is all very well, but the original estimates were for the entire gaming community. See, there are other games than Sims out there

*ducks before BTG takes a swing at her*

OK, OK so I was posting before I had enough coffee in me. :lol:

Please don't make me have to spank you. You have to be careful with this, you never know when I might be on that side of the water.



I'd never take a swing at you... silly. LOL

[redisenchanted]

I'm too lazy to go back and quote everything.

I agree that EA did this because they believe it will remove them from the fight and they don't want to alienate either side. Meh, big surprise. It's not an endorsement of paysites or a condemnation of file-sharing. In all honesty, I've never thought involving them was a great idea. This is their statement, they don't care. They don't want to clarify, they want to ride the fence. I can't imagine that they'll make a marketing deal with TSR. Can you imagine the grief that the borked items and bannings would make for them? I don't think they're that stupid, but it's possible.

PMBD predates the S2C discussions, and quiet file-sharing has been around for even longer. The aggressive in-your-face stance brought things out in the open, thus pushing Delphy and S2C to take the stand they have. I'm sure the anti-Delphy commandos had a part in that too.

There is nothing stopping the sharing of freely available files but respect. It is perfectly legal to do so, but many of us think it is wrong and don't do it.

[dietofworms]

I see this differently from most, if not all, of you.  If EA has changed its EULA specifically not to rule out paysites--which seems to have been their intent--then I feel I have to abide by the new EULA.  I don't and never have considered it a moral issue, but instead a legal one, and at least that portion of the dispute seems to be settled.  I am sorry this has happened, for reasons already posted--it will give TSR (who I'm sure has managed to get some kind of exclusive agreement from EA) much more power and incentive to go about its shitty way.   :cry:   That's what's going to ruin the game, not the small average paysite.

And as for filesharing, I think it's a similar issue to downloading bootlegged MP3's off sites like Hype Machine.  Or photocopying a book so that you don't have to buy another copy.  Have I done these things?  Of course I have.  But I have a hard time justifying it to myself.

Solander, I have enormous respect for you and the way you're running your site.  If you haven't realized this already, Pescado is always an outlier.  Don't pay him any mind.

[Bigtruckgirl]

I see this differently from most, if not all, of you.  If EA has changed its EULA specifically not to rule out paysites--which seems to have been their intent--then I feel I have to abide by the new EULA.  I don't and never have considered it a moral issue, but instead a legal one, and at least that portion of the dispute seems to be settled.  I am sorry this has happened, for reasons already posted--it will give TSR (who I'm sure has managed to get some kind of exclusive agreement from EA) much more power and incentive to go about its shitty way.   :cry:   That's what's going to ruin the game, not the small average paysite.

And as for filesharing, I think it's a similar issue to downloading bootlegged MP3's off sites like Hype Machine.  Or photocopying a book so that you don't have to buy another copy.  Have I done these things?  Of course I have.  But I have a hard time justifying it to myself.

dietofworms everyone is going to have to decide for themselves what kind of a fight this was for them, and make their decisions about their own game play based on those decisions. I for one won't fault you a bit if you go back to paying for content, if that is what you decide is right for you. Each one of us has our own reasons for fighting this battle, personally until EA says file sharing is illegal or Pes tells me to stop, I will keep on doing what I do. I wish you good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[Solander]

Solander, I have enormous respect for you and the way you're running your site.  If you haven't realized this already, Pescado is always an outlier.  Don't pay him any mind.

Thank you

But maybe i should explain, why i pay him lots of mind. As he does represent this forum as well as the booty. It's not Hecubus's site, it's not bigtruckgirl's site, it's Pescado's site, if anyone would be asked. And if he does say something, I can't ignore is without taking notice of it.

He's not an every day angry user, who want's to harrass someone to get some relief.

Edit: Maybe he just want's to harrass someone to get some relief from time to time, but he is definetely not a normal user