Take a look at this!

[Meganne]

I haven't posted in those threads for a bit, I'm just finding it a tad bit comical.  Between the two of them (dasangrael & Hilary), I can't even take it seriously anymore.  Morality? Too funny.  And nonsubjective morality at that, as we all know that every person in the world has the same exact morals.  :roll: I iz steelin, call teh FBI!  Thump thou paysite bible somewhere else.

On top of all, I'm agnostic so that "objective moralism" is one of my pet peeves...

[HawkGirl]

I just spoke to Alex over at EA there are ZERO plans to change the EULA agreement for the Sims 2. The custom content manager has always had a different EULA than BS or Home Crafter, because and he just said the same thing I have said all over the place You cannot create CC with the content manager. They are not giving paysites licensing agreements not Thomas or anyone else and asked where I heard this from. I told him it's obviously Thomas telling people he's in some deal with EA. He said NO we are not in any deal with TSR nor any other paysite.

So now, please I encourage everyone to call and ask to speak to legal. The changes have already been implemented in Spores and the Sims 3 for how CC will be handled. So you can't cause any harm there. It's the lies that are circulating now that are "P"ing me off. Want to see what Will Wright really thinks about paysites go to a Spore show and see how CC will be handled for it, how he's ensuring that CC remains free for his whole community. Then ask him why?

Call and ask if there are plans to change the EULA to support paysites.
650-628-1500
press 0
and just ask to speak to legal or someone in the legal dept

Please would someone post this in SC2 or give me permission to post?

I am not a member there, you are welcome to post it whereever you like. Hopefully others will call as well, and then you'll have some back-up confirmation. I think Nouk is pretty much at the end of her ropes, I nominate her to also call them. If they make her mad she can give them a piece of her mind in her own language, they'd never understand what she was saying. Works for me, she could give a piece of my mind too. Wouldn't work if I did it, I don't speak a foreign language fluently enough to pull it off. They'd just say excuse me, I understood that. Kinda hard to cuss someone out in English when they speak the same language. lol

[Meganne]

Wouldn't work if I did it, I don't speak a foreign language fluently enough to pull it off. They'd just say excuse me, I understood that. Kinda hard to cuss someone out in English when they speak the same language. lol

I still didn't learn out to cuss in English (actually the threads involving Mikey are giving me some insight) but I can speak (and cuss) fluently in other 4 languages so I'll call tomorrow (Pacific).

[Pescado]

Why do you need "permission" to post anything anywhere you please? Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a PIRATE!

[HawkGirl]

Wouldn't work if I did it, I don't speak a foreign language fluently enough to pull it off. They'd just say excuse me, I understood that. Kinda hard to cuss someone out in English when they speak the same language. lol

I still didn't learn out to cuss in English (actually the threads involving Mikey are giving me some insight) but I can speak (and cuss) fluently in other 4 languages so I'll call tomorrow (Pacific).

Good you can give 'em a piece of my mind too. lol Tell them I said crap or get off the pot, there are other's waiting to use it. We'll what else do we think they "paysites" are using to wipe with, if not the EULA? They obviously don't bother to read it. Hmm I just agreed to give them my whole life savings? I did not. Did too. I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one that ever reads what I agree too before I agree. I read and re-read it to make sure I understood it, before I ever agreed and installed the game. I do the same thing with everything I install or agree too by contract. It's called personal responsibility. No way am I going to enter into a contract with someone if I don't understand what I am reading, or the fine print of that contract. I knew right away as soon as everyone started screaming they changed the EULA that the content manager TOS was different then the other's because I had read it when I first downloaded it long ago. Which is also why I questioned the difference on the BBS. And also why I couldn't understand why everyone was getting all bent out of shape on what it says. I also know the TOS for the online EULA/Privacy policy is a lot different than what we agree to for the game. That will be the next one they update since they are making the games for different platforms now, and everyone will be screaming they changed the EULA. No they are changing the terms for the online service to update it to show all the platforms they are making games for. All the games they are discontinuing service for, it needs to be done. But you watch that will be the next one and everyone will be pointing to it saying they changed the EULA.

[Meganne]

I knew right away as soon as everyone started screaming they changed the EULA that the content manager TOS was different then the other's because I had read it when I first downloaded it long ago. Which is also why I questioned the difference on the BBS. And also why I couldn't understand why everyone was getting all bent out of shape on what it says.

Since the whole "EA changed the EULA" drama started I've been scratching my head on total confusion. Basically EA changed the EULA of two items that (to the best of my knowledge) can't be used to create custom content. I was confused mostly by their reference to "content" in the fansite kit until I finally opened the silly thing and found banners. I guess in the sim world we're so used to the word "content" as in "custom content" that we forgot the generic meaning of it

That doesn't mean that I exclude that EA would give up on the copyright of the derivatives since they could be liable for the (adult, copyrighted by other corporations, artists) content of the derivatives if some other Floridian lawyer decides to stop chasing ambulances or whatever they do when unemployed.

Thanks for pointing me to Spore and to the model of distribution of the(custom) content referenced by Wright. EA will need a strong EULA to allow for automatic upload on their servers From some "google-ing" I understood the same should apply to Sims 3 but so far I didn't see any EA-related statement on that matter. Do you've any link?

[Zazazu]

Wouldn't work if I did it, I don't speak a foreign language fluently enough to pull it off. They'd just say excuse me, I understood that. Kinda hard to cuss someone out in English when they speak the same language. lol

I still didn't learn out to cuss in English (actually the threads involving Mikey are giving me some insight) but I can speak (and cuss) fluently in other 4 languages so I'll call tomorrow (Pacific).

Don't use any statements by Mikey as an example. He's really not good at cussing, and many of his phrases just...don't make a bit of sense. Basic rule: Fuck is verb, and noun. Fucking is adverb and adjective. One word covers it all.

Why do you need "permission" to post anything anywhere you please? Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a PIRATE!

This I've never understood, myself. As long as you link to the original quote and give credit, what's the issue with quoting someone on another forum?

[npfiii]

I've been conversing with 'Fenris' again...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the agreement would not be binding and/or legally valid until I or someone downloaded or started using something new. I don't recall any such statement saying EA could change the EULA and we're automatically subjected to the latest EULA.

Hello again,  
   
 Customer Support has been asked to direct all in-depth inquiries about the creation of custom content and the Sims 2 to the Electronic Arts Terms of Service: http://www.ea.com/global/legal/tos.jsp. This document outlines Electronic Arts rights and responsibilities in regards to copyrighted and trademarked content.  
   
 Thank you for your continued interest in The Sims 2.  
   
 Take care,  
   
 EA Rep Fenris  
 Player Relations  
 Electronic Arts  

Now, the only thing I can see on that link is an EULA directly relating to EAOnline, and not third party websites....but let's not let Fenris pointing people to the wrong part of the website cloud our judgement of him/her

One bit caught my eye though.

EA respects the intellectual property rights of others.  You may not upload or post on EA Online any Content protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights (the “Intellectual Property Rights”) unless (i) you are the owner of the Intellectual Property Rights; or (ii) you have the prior written consent of the owner(s) of the Intellectual Property Rights to make such use of the applicable Content.  EA may, without prior notice to you, remove from EA Online any Content that EA in its sole business judgment believes may infringe the Intellectual Property Rights of a third party.  If you are a repeat infringer of a third party’s Intellectual Property Rights, EA may immediately terminate your EA Account without prior notice to you.  If your Account is terminated, no refund will be granted, and you will lose access to everything associated with your Account (such as points, virtual property and tokens).

Is it just me, or does that suggest that I.P. rights are now held by the content creators, and not E.A.?

[Marhis]

Is it just me, or does that suggest that I.P. rights are now held by the content creators, and not E.A.?

No, that part is about real copyrights: you can't use someone else's trademark to make stuff for the game. Or better: technically you can, but EA has the right to remove that content from its site.

In a nutshell, you can't make D&G underware and upload it on the Exchange. EA will pull it away.

[SparklePlenty]

Well, since EA has NOT removed anything from the Exchange including pay files, and the only reference on the BBS to copyrighted material refers to trademarks such as Disney and Coca Cola, it suggests to ME that they do NOT consider user-made Custom Content to be the intellectual property of anyone else. It suggests that they consider all the crap on the Exchange to be EA's intellectual property rather than any third party's.

[Sherry]

Is it just me, or does that suggest that I.P. rights are now held by the content creators, and not E.A.?

That and people actually can have real copyright to models/textures or at least IP they make.  Now if you willingly add that to EA's code, then that's your fault.  Because yes that is your IP, but again no one is holding a gun to your head to put it into EA's property and sell it as something that only really works because of EA's "tools and materials".  If they are, then you have bigger problems than the pirates here.  

However, many creators used models that others have made.  I notice alot are expensive and obviously pirated.  However, some have their own set of clauses, such as you can not distribute them as models, you may only use them in renderings and such.  Well as a .package you are obviously also distributing the model.  It's very clearly in there.  So that being said, the person who has real copyright of the model may wished it to be separated from EA's materials and not distributed with it's .package, and I think they are within some rights there.

[HawkGirl]

EA respects the intellectual property rights of others.  You may not upload or post on EA Online any Content protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights (the “Intellectual Property Rights”) unless (i) you are the owner of the Intellectual Property Rights; or (ii) you have the prior written consent of the owner(s) of the Intellectual Property Rights to make such use of the applicable Content.  EA may, without prior notice to you, remove from EA Online any Content that EA in its sole business judgment believes may infringe the Intellectual Property Rights of a third party.  If you are a repeat infringer of a third party’s Intellectual Property Rights, EA may immediately terminate your EA Account without prior notice to you.  If your Account is terminated, no refund will be granted, and you will lose access to everything associated with your Account (such as points, virtual property and tokens).

This is why I said yesterday I think Thomas instead of winning friends is slowly making enemies. Do you know what they told me yesterday the minute I said TSR?

He said go through the site, any and all copyright infringements you find report them immediately. We need to get this type of stuff off these sites.
Oh ok that's all that's going to happen, right? I'm not stupid. Now you get some teenager on a mission, he's not going to know that what do you think is going to happen if they tell everyone who calls that?

I almost couldn't think of anything to say to that. I was dumbfounded. I'm calling you about the EULA and your telling me to go through TSR's website and report immediately anything that violates anyone's copyright or trademark? They have never suggested such a thing before. So here is the way I saw that comment. Once again back to the we don't want to dirty our hands. If you report all their infringements, think about it. Hint Hint. You can get rid of them, and have them shut down like that! Ok sure thing buddy. then they turn around and do the same thing to freesites. I'm with you on this.

Then we don't have to bother with it. Just like they are discouraging paysites now, by allowing people to slam them on the BBS. The community is doing a fine job of taking care of these things within themselves. Were helping out aren't we? I mean gee were allowing the discussion and links on the BBS, what more do you people want? Shut them down for us. That way we don't have to get in the middle. You all go and do our job then we remain nice and clean and we can claim, "We didn't do it."

Ok if your still with me now, think about it. We add to our online policy that each site is responsible for their own content, not EA. They companies/designers/artists can't sue us because these websites are violating copyright, yes or no? We'll send people on a quest to report them all, anyone that calls recommend they go and report all violations. They get shut down, and our job is done.

We'll I am sorry I would never do that to Thomas and I don't even like the man. Or anyone else for that matter, unless I knew the only thing that would happen is a C&D letter. Which is what would happen with copyright. Some companies with Trademarks/Patents might also do the same depends on if the company is established. Other's holding trademark/patents might go straight for the throat. I have never wanted EA to do anything to harm these paysites, ever. I just wanted them to admit paysites are in violation of their contract with EA.

Why should the rest of us follow the rules and use CC for non-commercial use, when some see themselves as above that rule? I mean either we all agree it's for non-commercial use or we don't...In which case let's all make a little money. What the hell who cares if we rip people off for money on broken things, then deny them a refund. Or if we use copyrighten material, and I'm not talking about EA's copyright. We'll use their things and charge for them, as well. We don't even have to pay for it. We can just google the image and paste it on as clothing, wallpapers, floors, paintings, furniture, objects. Opps now we've violated three copyrights. The photographer, the orignal designer and the company. 4 copyrights if you do want to include EA. On top of that were now selling their work....Or here's another good idea. Let's scope out the cad sites and take their free items and sell them! Who cares how long it too them to make it or that they are sharing them for free? We want money!

Ohhh but were the immoral ones....Ok.

To Meganne I just went to S2C and was reading the posts there. This should help you out.: The federal law concerning SimPe...Federal law always supercedes state law.

V.B.1. The First Fair Use Factor
Section 107 lists the four factors that must be considered in determining whether a particular use is a fair one: “(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


(1) Covers SimPe, because it is indeed teaching people. Not only that it is covered by (4). How many people actually buy the game because of CC. Because people have been able to make mods, to make the game enjoyable? All due to SimPe.

However, if you go back and read that carefully paysites have not only violated EA's copyright. They have violated the federal law for fair usage, because they do harm the potential market for EA.

ETA this only covers reverse-engineering as fair usage. Since they are claiming they only use SimPe they can't use that reverse-engineering to make a profit. Make sense?

[Soup Parrot]

Again reiterating what the US Copyright office answered me:

The 3rd party works may be considered derivative works.

A new work that is based on or incorporates a preexisting work can be considered a derivative work. Only the owner of copyright in the original work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create a derivative work. The owner of the original work is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author. For additional information about derivative works, please read Circular 14 on our website, http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html.


EA owns it all unless they give authorization like a licensing deal.

[Sherry]

That way we don't have to get in the middle.

We didn't talk to legal like yourself, we tried through Customer Support, and we got a similar feeling.  Gone are acknowledgments and clarity, they have provided in the past.  They are basically saying, here is the EULA, if you have a problem with anything, take legal matters into your own hands.

Unfortunately, EA can not provide legal advice in regards to this issue. Customer Support has been asked to direct all questions about custom content and the Sims to the Electronic Arts Terms of Service: http://www.ea.com/global/legal/tos.jsp, and the End User License Agreement for The Sims 2 Body Shop. These document outline Electronic Arts rights and responsibilities in regards to copyrighted and trademarked content. If you have continued concerns about copyright and trademark infringement we recommend you ask your legal counsel.

Thank you for contacting EA Customer Support, and showing your interest in The Sims.

Sincerely,
Spada
Customer Support Supervisor
Electronic Arts

Personally I feel like that is the way it's going to stay until TS3 or Spore.  Though Thomas has mentioned several times he plans on doing both at TSR, I even remember seeing  page for it way back when, so it should be interesting to see how this develops when the time comes.

[HawkGirl]

That way we don't have to get in the middle.

We didn't talk to legal like yourself, we tried through Customer Support, and we got a similar feeling.  Gone are acknowledgments and clarity, they have provided in the past.  They are basically saying, here is the EULA, if you have a problem with anything, take legal matters into your own hands.

Unfortunately, EA can not provide legal advice in regards to this issue. Customer Support has been asked to direct all questions about custom content and the Sims to the Electronic Arts Terms of Service: http://www.ea.com/global/legal/tos.jsp, and the End User License Agreement for The Sims 2 Body Shop. These document outline Electronic Arts rights and responsibilities in regards to copyrighted and trademarked content. If you have continued concerns about copyright and trademark infringement we recommend you ask your legal counsel.

Thank you for contacting EA Customer Support, and showing your interest in The Sims.

Sincerely,
Spada
Customer Support Supervisor
Electronic Arts

Personally I feel like that is the way it's going to stay until TS3 or Spore.  Though Thomas has mentioned several times he plans on doing both at TSR, I even remember seeing  page for it way back when, so it should be interesting to see how this develops when the time comes.

That's what I told Nymphy yesterday, it's like they are trying to take themselves out of the equation and just let the community handle it. But I think if other's are calling and they are telling them what they told me that's a dangerous path to walk on, as well. Especially if you get some teenager hell bent on getting even because someone took his/her money and broke his/her game, or it didn't work in his/her game. Then refused to give them their money back. EA's very smart. They keep the EULA the same for in the game in case "they" decide to do something, then change it all over in other places. That are in public view, so they can't be held responsible. Then! Turn around and tell people to report things on websites...Ok sure we'll all get right on that, so we can sit back and watch every fansite go up in smoke. But, it won't be their fault.