For NeptuneSuzy

[Ry]

Paden I love you.

 :lol:
You always say things perfectly. I wish I had the ability to do that. It's probably something to do with my lack of patience.  :wink:
Anyway.
Yeah, I love reading your posts.

[MIKEY]

Okay.
But as I said earlier, too...lol...why not just free-will donation?
If your members knew that your site needed help, they would donate willingly. As would others who were just happy to help.
I know you've said you only received 2 donations prior, but if the words is really out there...and posting all about it here would do that...there would be much more attention for you.
Hecubus even has free-sites linked at Money Better Spent, advertising that they are sites run on donation-only. I don't *know*, but I'll wager that that has been good for them in bringing in their site costs.
I guess, to save myself some finger strength, I'll just ask a straightforward question that would answer all my others.
Would you even be willing to try to go free?
If people could help you find ways to protect your content from minors, would you atleast give it a try?
Put up a donation button, spread the word that you are now running on donation only status...and just see what happens?

ETA
Where'd he go? Hm.

Sorry, have some RL stuff to do today...but before I take off, let me answer you this...We have been considering ways to go 'free' as your definition defines 'free'.  And we may have found a way,but we are doing some research and sampling to get the best test results.

However, whether our site goes 'free' or not, is not why I debate with thee, fair lady.  I debate with thee, as I do not condone your methods or approach, in some instances.  Not 'you' specifically, but in the general sense of the word 'you'.  LOL

[MizzKitty]

Ack, now Paden made me want to go get the old dusty LSL games once again. Those were the days.

I really have nothing else to add.  :oops:

[Ry]

Nice to know. Thank you for answering.

And it's the Booty, eh?

What are your thoughts on that, Mikey?
I won't be so impatient this time since you're busy.  
You can answer whenever.

[liegenschonheit]

I run a small sims site with a decent amount of normal traffic, and also a fairly well populated forum from my domain. My hosting, which I recently had to bump up because the el-cheapo basic package was causing a few issues, isn't totally expensive, but I can usually get enough donations in a given month to cover it. If I get a bit over what I need, I set it aside for those rainy-day months where I don't get donations. So far, I've only had to pay out of pocket a few times over the course of this last year.

Now, some months ago, Paypal ate a big one and made an error that caused them to charge my real bank account over and over for the cost of my hosting. I don't know what happened, but though Paypal was good enough to refund whatever was taken, my bank wouldn't reverse the NSF fees, which had racked up considerably. I was able to eat a little less than half of those fees with a paycheck I had coming, and I panicked and posted a 'please help!' message on my site. Within probably four days, fans and friends had contributed enough to cover the whole thing, and I can't begin to tell you how humble, grateful and relieved I was, and astounded by the generosity of people in this community.

Another good example is Nouk, who wanted to move to a new, less expensive host but needed $60 to do it. She posted it on her site, and it was a mere matter of days before the community had donated enough to make the move. The examples of people helping site owners can go on and on, nearly everyone who runs a free site with at-will donations probably has a story of their own.

The point of all of this is that I've really never known a group of people more generous and willing to help than the people we have right here in this community. If you have a site and are genuinely in trouble financially, you'll probably be amazed to see how many people will jump in to help you out. The whole paysite thing even started because site owners realized that people were willing to help pay to keep a site running, and jumped in to make movey on that generosity. It's shameful, and it's even more of a miracle that people are still willing to help as much as they do.

So yeah, I don't really want to hear from paysite owners saying that they can't afford to cover their costs and stay free. You can, easily, by accepting donations, asking for help when new costs arise, and being honest about how much you really need. You might have to cover your own end every great now and then, but think of it as a donation to your own cause.

[MIKEY]

Had I a credit card, I would do the free will donation and help free sites out. Thing is, my stance is that if you don't have a contract to work for EA Games, you don't need to make money from them, even if it is just to cover the cost of your site. And, to say free gift is kind of redundant. When you give someone a gift, you don't charge for it, do you? No strings or benefits attatched. But if you give them something when they give you money, that can and most often is regarded as a sale. If you guaranteed your game content, that it wouldn't bork my game, then I would think again about paying for content. But first, you would have to ink a contract with the company that makes the game. I know you make enough to keep your site open, you aren't the issue. It's the thing that many sites, such as TSR, are making cash hand over fist and being such assholes. That tends to bother me. They show all of these great looking recolours but you have to pay to get the mesh. Sorry, ain't gonna pay them when they don't have a contract with EA to sell that content. No other gaming community tolerates paying for consumer made content, why should we? And don't tell me that Sims 2 is one of the largest communities on the net, I know of some that are most likely larger. I don't have a problem with you as a person, MIKEY, in fact, I've kind of enjoyed some of your posts and statements. But, I'm not brain-washed, the pay aspect of this has bothered me for some time now and this is my way of making a stand. If some sites had a way to send in donations for bandwidth, and stayed free, I'd juggle my budget around to be able to. We're a family of three and I do know that living is expensive, but we are able to do things when we watch what we spend. I've got a three year old and God, are they expensive little critters to raise! I do my best by him because one of these days, he's gonna pick out the nursing home that I wind up in. Anyways, many sites have stuff that screws up your game and you have to pay for it. That bugs the hell outta me. As for the adult content, surely you remember the video game Leisure Suit Larry and the Lounge Lizards? You had to answer a series of questions to verify your age so that you could even play. Maybe something like that would keep the stuff out of the hands of the underaged? Seriously, my problem with paysites is that they don't have a contract to sell the stuff with the makers of the game and they expect to get paid. I have no problem with most of the people. It's the ideas that some have tried to ram down my throat. There is such a thing as a gag reflex, you know, and most of them trigger it with their credo and creations...

Ah, but (for example only) MTS2 'gives' access to a faster and better download server/service, IF you are a monthly contributor.  Thus, you are paying for a service.  WHich, don't get me wrong, I am not against, but in all fairness, let's call a spade a spade, if you will.

And unless you can say my site's credo & creations trigger your "gag reflex", I will not be lumped in with everyone else.  As of this day, the very few problems we have been advised of with our stuff, we have fixed posthaste, and to their satisfaction.  We refund sub fees if someone complains and demands their money back (for posterity's sake, this has only happened a couple of times over the years), no questions asked.

Also important to note, My wife makes and sells her own candles.  If anyone buys any amount of candles she will toss in a month's access free if they wish it.  This way we keep the balance so that we are only reaping enough to cover the costs.  Yes, we need money, but we do not want to make profit off of our friends.  We only wish to keep the service we have provided for them up and running, as well as have a way to enjoy what we  have in common.

Does that make me evil?  

[MIKEY]

Had I a credit card, I would do the free will donation and help free sites out. Thing is, my stance is that if you don't have a contract to work for EA Games, you don't need to make money from them, even if it is just to cover the cost of your site. And, to say free gift is kind of redundant. When you give someone a gift, you don't charge for it, do you? No strings or benefits attatched. But if you give them something when they give you money, that can and most often is regarded as a sale. If you guaranteed your game content, that it wouldn't bork my game, then I would think again about paying for content. But first, you would have to ink a contract with the company that makes the game. I know you make enough to keep your site open, you aren't the issue. It's the thing that many sites, such as TSR, are making cash hand over fist and being such assholes. That tends to bother me. They show all of these great looking recolours but you have to pay to get the mesh. Sorry, ain't gonna pay them when they don't have a contract with EA to sell that content. No other gaming community tolerates paying for consumer made content, why should we? And don't tell me that Sims 2 is one of the largest communities on the net, I know of some that are most likely larger. I don't have a problem with you as a person, MIKEY, in fact, I've kind of enjoyed some of your posts and statements. But, I'm not brain-washed, the pay aspect of this has bothered me for some time now and this is my way of making a stand. If some sites had a way to send in donations for bandwidth, and stayed free, I'd juggle my budget around to be able to. We're a family of three and I do know that living is expensive, but we are able to do things when we watch what we spend. I've got a three year old and God, are they expensive little critters to raise! I do my best by him because one of these days, he's gonna pick out the nursing home that I wind up in. Anyways, many sites have stuff that screws up your game and you have to pay for it. That bugs the hell outta me. As for the adult content, surely you remember the video game Leisure Suit Larry and the Lounge Lizards? You had to answer a series of questions to verify your age so that you could even play. Maybe something like that would keep the stuff out of the hands of the underaged? Seriously, my problem with paysites is that they don't have a contract to sell the stuff with the makers of the game and they expect to get paid. I have no problem with most of the people. It's the ideas that some have tried to ram down my throat. There is such a thing as a gag reflex, you know, and most of them trigger it with their credo and creations...

Ah, but (for example only) MTS2 'gives' access to a faster and better download server/service, IF you are a monthly contributor.  Thus, you are paying for a service.  WHich, don't get me wrong, I am not against, but in all fairness, let's call a spade a spade, if you will.

And unless you can say my site's credo & creations trigger your "gag reflex", I will not be lumped in with everyone else.  As of this day, the very few problems we have been advised of with our stuff, we have fixed posthaste, and to their satisfaction.  We refund sub fees if someone complains and demands their money back (for posterity's sake, this has only happened a couple of times over the years), no questions asked.

Also important to note, My wife makes and sells her own candles.  If anyone buys any amount of candles she will toss in a month's access free if they wish it.  This way we keep the balance so that we are only reaping enough to cover the costs.  Yes, we need money, but we do not want to make profit off of our friends.  We only wish to keep the service we have provided for them up and running, as well as have a way to enjoy what we  have in common.

Does that make me evil?  

[AW]

Ry - What was the problem with our booty again?  He doesn't like it?  I thought everyone loved booty!

OOOPS!  Double post Mikey - You must go to the brig!

[liegenschonheit]

Mickey, no, that doesn't make you evil. In the hierarchy of evil paysites, sites that are making just enough to cover costs barely register with me. I have known and liked site owners that had donation packages, and those aren't the fish I set out to fry when I want to bring down paysites. I want the big ones that are making money hand over fist as fast as they can.

However, there are alternatives, and I am always very glad to see sites with donation sets go totally free. In fact, a lot of the people here are extremely willing to lend real help whenever they can to sites that want to go free, some people can help out with free hosting, or donate enough to get the ball rolling. For pirates, people here really do a hell of a lot of giving stuff away.

[MIKEY]

For example;

Inge Jones was big Creator & Hacker who was a huge 'free' supporter.  She would offer suggestion and help to those that wished to go free.

However, due to the 'bad press' she is receiving, due to groups who support the types of tactics you folks use (no slight intended, just an observation), she has since retracted her support to going 'free'

2 things are brought to mind in this instance; 1-see what happens when one is lumped in to a single group because of the majority rule? 2-see how you also can be doing harm to the community?

[liegenschonheit]

edit button issues

[liegenschonheit]

1. Inge is a bad example. The matter of Inge vs the pirates has nothing to do with our 'tactics' or anything like that. There is a lot of bad blood there related to FFFSS, and the fact that a lot of people here didn't support what it eventually became. Most of what you are seeing is in fact fall out from an old argument.

2. Our 'tactics' aren't coordinated beyond purchasing an item and then posting it here for people to share. Most of us don't want to cause personal distress to anyone. Things like excessive harassment (trolling) and posting of personal information are frowned on by most members. If we are hurting people by asking them to consider going free, then perhaps people need to get thicker skins. Also, you would be surprised how many people come here to stir up shit. If you don't want to get your feelings hurt, don't go to a place where people are extremely outspoken and guaranteed to disagree with you.

I really don't see debate on the topic as being detrimental to the community. People need to be aware of the issue and decide what they want to do. The problem that most paysite owners are having is the fact that a large quantity are picking the side that doesn't require them to pay for anything.

[Ry]

Honestly, I see your point, Mikey, about the booty.
I disagree with it, though.
Yes, it may hurt the creators of these objects, but on equal terms they are hurting the community by making them pay for these objects anyways.
I'm on a personal call. Best friend in trouble. I gotta go, I'll discuss this more later, guys, K?

RL calls..da da da dum da dum!

[Paden]

MIKEY, I didn't lump you in with the others, now did I? I said that I had no problem with you. I said I had a problem with sites like TSR, didn't I? That wasn't fair to assume that I had lumped you in with the idiots and assholes league, when in fact that I stated that I had no problem with you. Although, I may if that keeps up. So far, I like you. I enjoy your postings. But if you're gonna make statements that indicate that what I say means less to you than a pimple on a flea's ass, I will proceed to ignore you. No cookies from my oven for you.

[MIKEY]

Ry - What was the problem with our booty again?  He doesn't like it?  I thought everyone loved booty!

OOOPS!  Double post Mikey - You must go to the brig!

HEY!  I call foul and request exception!  I am being asked questions from more than one at a time.

Brig?  Is THAT what we're calling 'it' now?  LOL