For NeptuneSuzy

[MIKEY]

But what I don't agree with is scalping people who legally buy files, and share them with others. What I don't agree with is the disparate standards that paysite owners seem to employ - that their time/effort/talent/bandwidth are worth more.  What I don't agree with is the fallacious argument that sims websites are only for rich people - which is ludicrous seeing as I have spent $3000+ on playing this game so far - and so none of us are in the gutter.

Now, now.  I never, ever said they were for rich people.  All I ever tendered to you folks was that we make no money off of it, we don't think we are better than thou, we only charge to cover the service we provide for our members, who have agreed with our methods.  I see no disparate standards at MY site, yet you damn me for what other sites do.

[calalily]

Now, now.  I never, ever said they were for rich people.

I wasn't referring just to your arguments - but rather to the general arguments I've seen around.  I don't think you've ever used the talent argument either - so I wasn't referring to you solely.

I see no disparate standards at MY site, yet you damn me for what other sites do.

It's not just about what is at your site.  By saying that you need payment for bandwidth shits all over sites like Parsimonious - who has to have at least one dedicated server.  It hurts them for donations because simmers are used to seeing people with their hands out for content, and they take donation run sites for granted.

[MIKEY]

I wasn't referring just to your arguments - but rather to the general arguments I've seen around.  I don't think you've ever used the talent argument either - so I wasn't referring to you solely.

It's not just about what is at your site.  By saying that you need payment for bandwidth shits all over sites like Parsimonious - who has to have at least one dedicated server.  It hurts them for donations because simmers are used to seeing people with their hands out for content, and they take donation run sites for granted.

  Okay, besides the fact that one can't say it is 'my' fault if folks don't see a difference, be there one...But what if we narrow this down to my site alone?  Then what might be your arguments?

  We charge a minimal fee for access to a portion of the site, yes.  But some donation sites, and even charities that offer you a free gift, only give you the free gift IF you donate, right.  So besides trying to ensure, the best way we can, that minors don't have easy access to the adult stuff, if someone pays for access to the exclusive section, the adult stuff is their 'free gift'.  We don't only allow them to download each one time only.  They are granted access for a term, and can download as many times as they like.  Thus, they are paying for a service.

Yes, the Adult content is locked until they gain access. But would it be better to just put it up on a freely accessible page and let jr. go at it to their hearts content?  We've been told to use age check buttons; Sorry, doesn't come any where near as 'secure' as the way we have it.  Faxing us a copy of the driver's license; How do you reasonably ensure Jr. didn't just fax or scan us a copy of his older siblings or parents license?  Etc, etc...

Advertisements?  Not happening on my site.  It slows it down for our members.  No one wants to read them, and they use up some of the cost they are supposed to be covering.  Donation?  We tried it, and were lucky if we had 2 per month.  We polled our folks, and they chose the format we now follow.

Believe me, I've covered the angles.

[Ry]

Mikey, I would just like to say that on the subject of donations...
Maybe it has something to do with the way you represent your site.
People are more willing to donate to a site that has owners who aren't as...shall we say...hard to get along with?

If you were more personable, you just might be surprised at what the community would do for you.

[MIKEY]

Mikey, I would just like to say that on the subject of donations...
Maybe it has something to do with the way you represent your site.
People are more willing to donate to a site that has owners who aren't as...shall we say...hard to get along with?

If you were more personable, you just might be surprised at what the community would do for you.

Personable?  LOL.  MMNT is a FAMILY, my friend.  My folks love me and I love them.  There isn't anything we would do for each other.

Like I told ya, I only went on the attack because I felt I was under attack or going to be under attack anyway.  You welcome to come to our site and join in on chat one evening. Or just lurk and check out the threads...

Also like I said, my peeps preferred that we charge a small fee to protect the adult content from minors, as many of our members have children themselves.

[Ry]

Family and only 2 donations?
 :shock:

Maybe I will stop by sometime.  

[MIKEY]

Family and only 2 donations?
 :shock:

Maybe I will stop by sometime.  

LOL.  Yeah, that looks funny.  But really, considering, at least from what I can tell you of the most active members, that most of our people are folks like me that don't have much materially or financially, but they are great people.  Which is why we also have a point system where-by folks, by being active on the forum, can earn points towards getting access to the Exclusive Areas.  SO no one HAS to pay anything...And what we do have for 'paying' members really isn't very many, and barely covers our costs.  In fact, 6 out of 12 months, we probably pay some of the costs out of pocket.

Now granted, our costs aren't really that much in the grand scheme of things, but we I am a 4 person-1 income family, that barely gets by some months as it is.  Not to make anyone feel sorry for us, because we are quite happy already, but rather just so you know I ain't gettin rich of this shit...LOL

[simminggramma]

You have adult content that is freely accessible by anyone, 18 or not.  Your site states on the very first page that you must be 18 to enter--but where are the safeguards that that person is 18.  I clicked through and registered a while back--even registering, all I was asked for was my username and email.  Then I had access to the free part of the site.  I looked around.  I'm sorry, but a naked sim in nothing but nipple rings is definitely content of an adult nature.

[MIKEY]

You have adult content that is freely accessible by anyone, 18 or not.  Your site states on the very first page that you must be 18 to enter--but where are the safeguards that that person is 18.  I clicked through and registered a while back--even registering, all I was asked for was my username and email.  Then I had access to the free part of the site.  I looked around.  I'm sorry, but a naked sim in nothing but nipple rings is definitely content of an adult nature.

Which is why we have both the 'You must be 18 to enter" disclaimer and the locked content.  The locked content being the actual sex animations nd such.  The pics and skins you are talking about would be akin to a 15 yr old looking at Playboy vs going at it with a real girl.  LOL.

Anyway, we do have creators and skinners who do not want their stuff to be in the Exclusive content, thus we honor their wishes and it goes in the open forum.

[Ry]

But there really is no way to ensure that the people who are getting the animations are truly adults, no matter what. Just like the pics and the playboy comments. *which I agree with*
I fully believe that it is the Parents responsibility to watch their children on the internet.
And although I commend you for trying to safegaurd your adult items, it really isn't doing any good, is it?
As someone pointed out, you can click a button that says you are 18, but no one really knows for sure.
So the idea of saying you are sub simply because adult content makes no sense to me because you can't control who lies or tells the truth.
I do want to say thank you, though, for coming around and answering questions. It shows that you really want to get your voice out there in the right way.

[MIKEY]

But there really is no way to ensure that the people who are getting the animations are truly adults, no matter what. Just like the pics and the playboy comments. *which I agree with*
I fully believe that it is the Parents responsibility to watch their children on the internet.
And although I commend you for trying to safegaurd your adult items, it really isn't doing any good, is it?
As someone pointed out, you can click a button that says you are 18, but no one really knows for sure.
So the idea of saying you are sub simply because adult content makes no sense to me because you can't control who lies or tells the truth.
I do want to say thank you, though, for coming around and answering questions. It shows that you really want to get your voice out there in the right way.

Your welcome.

Now let me add this;

Just because I can't apply a 100% guaranteed no minors decal over it, doesn't mean I shouldn't do my best to at least try to ensure as few minors get thru as possible, in my mind.  I'm not trying to d othe bare minimum legal requirements here, folks. I have a stake in this too.  My daughter is 8 and is starting to play the SIMs and surf the web...think about it a moment...

[Ry]

No, I should ahve better clarified.
I agree with you 1000% about keeping the stuff away from the children and all that. I think it's commendable and wise for you to make them register as 18.
What I'm saying, not very well, I guess...lol. Is that doing those things still cannot be your only reason for subs. If it is, that's silly because you can do all the things you already do to ensure adults are only getting to the nastsies....and still be free.
Can't you even use credit card as a way of ensuring age without charging them? I know there are a few sites out there that make you register a cc number to make sure you are 18, but then they don't charge anything at all. zip. zilch.
couldn't you do things that way?

[MIKEY]

No, I should ahve better clarified.
I agree with you 1000% about keeping the stuff away from the children and all that. I think it's commendable and wise for you to make them register as 18.
What I'm saying, not very well, I guess...lol. Is that doing those things still cannot be your only reason for subs. If it is, that's silly because you can do all the things you already do to ensure adults are only getting to the nastsies....and still be free.
Can't you even use credit card as a way of ensuring age without charging them? I know there are a few sites out there that make you register a cc number to make sure you are 18, but then they don't charge anything at all. zip. zilch.
couldn't you do things that way?

As I stated prior, it is also about covering the costs, as well.  While we are not doing it for profit, or fame for that matter (LOL), we are still trying to cover the costs of running the site and forum, as well as providing what we do to the folks.

[Ry]

Okay.
But as I said earlier, too...lol...why not just free-will donation?
If your members knew that your site needed help, they would donate willingly. As would others who were just happy to help.
I know you've said you only received 2 donations prior, but if the words is really out there...and posting all about it here would do that...there would be much more attention for you.
Hecubus even has free-sites linked at Money Better Spent, advertising that they are sites run on donation-only. I don't *know*, but I'll wager that that has been good for them in bringing in their site costs.
I guess, to save myself some finger strength, I'll just ask a straightforward question that would answer all my others.
Would you even be willing to try to go free?
If people could help you find ways to protect your content from minors, would you atleast give it a try?
Put up a donation button, spread the word that you are now running on donation only status...and just see what happens?

ETA
Where'd he go? Hm.

[Paden]

Had I a credit card, I would do the free will donation and help free sites out. Thing is, my stance is that if you don't have a contract to work for EA Games, you don't need to make money from them, even if it is just to cover the cost of your site. And, to say free gift is kind of redundant. When you give someone a gift, you don't charge for it, do you? No strings or benefits attatched. But if you give them something when they give you money, that can and most often is regarded as a sale. If you guaranteed your game content, that it wouldn't bork my game, then I would think again about paying for content. But first, you would have to ink a contract with the company that makes the game. I know you make enough to keep your site open, you aren't the issue. It's the thing that many sites, such as TSR, are making cash hand over fist and being such assholes. That tends to bother me. They show all of these great looking recolours but you have to pay to get the mesh. Sorry, ain't gonna pay them when they don't have a contract with EA to sell that content. No other gaming community tolerates paying for consumer made content, why should we? And don't tell me that Sims 2 is one of the largest communities on the net, I know of some that are most likely larger. I don't have a problem with you as a person, MIKEY, in fact, I've kind of enjoyed some of your posts and statements. But, I'm not brain-washed, the pay aspect of this has bothered me for some time now and this is my way of making a stand. If some sites had a way to send in donations for bandwidth, and stayed free, I'd juggle my budget around to be able to. We're a family of three and I do know that living is expensive, but we are able to do things when we watch what we spend. I've got a three year old and God, are they expensive little critters to raise! I do my best by him because one of these days, he's gonna pick out the nursing home that I wind up in. Anyways, many sites have stuff that screws up your game and you have to pay for it. That bugs the hell outta me. As for the adult content, surely you remember the video game Leisure Suit Larry and the Lounge Lizards? You had to answer a series of questions to verify your age so that you could even play. Maybe something like that would keep the stuff out of the hands of the underaged? Seriously, my problem with paysites is that they don't have a contract to sell the stuff with the makers of the game and they expect to get paid. I have no problem with most of the people. It's the ideas that some have tried to ram down my throat. There is such a thing as a gag reflex, you know, and most of them trigger it with their credo and creations...