For NeptuneSuzy

[MIKEY]

 
You are not always right.  

If you are truly as 'enlightened' as you believe yourself to be, allow for the possibility, at least, that you can be wrong about something.  

In other words, don't be so freaking close-minded.  

Or the fact that you say you are willing to debate the issue is a farce, and your motives are other than that.

Perhaps you may realise that you are not always right; especially about having a paysite.

Perhaps you will allow for the possibility that you are wrong.

Perhaps you are the one that shouldnt be so "freaking close-minded".

Perhaps you will realise that you are really not interested in a "debate", with the implied understanding that the opposition may be correct.

Perhaps the one with "motives other than that" lies not with people here, but within yourself.


People have stated on numerous occasions the reasons why they think paysites must be destroyed, starting with the EULA.  You have given contrary opinions.   Frankly, I see nothing more to say: you hold a contrary position after looking at the same evidence, and reading the reasons why...what more needs to be said?

As to a 'debate', each may give his/her position based on factual reasoning, but at the end of the day that's all that's left.  I really dont see anyone here slapping their foreheads and exclaiming 'gee, Mikey was right and I was wrong, paysites are good'.....at the same time, I dont see you admitting paysites break the EULA, are harmful to the community, and are more concerned with greed than goodness.

Actually, then your memory is flawed, because I recall seeing an actual screenshot of an email, or PM between someone and EA stating that they should not compound the issue by uploading/sharing others creations on the Exchange...I'll see if I kept it...

And the personal opinion of a simmaster or even a maxoid simply cannot void an ongoing point of the EULA: "EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials."  The moment EA says that what Mikey made belongs to Mikey, then that is the moment they surrender the rights to their own creations, and that isnt gunna happen.

Perhaps you need to read the posts I have placed in here over the last few days in order to better gauge what I am here to talk about before you continue to question or challenge me.

Maybe it will make it easier for you to understand what I am here to debate if I tell you this; "I MAKE NOTHING FOR THE SIMS, I DON'T PLAY THE SIMS.", and the rest I will not repeat, yet again.

And maybe all you need is some more of that Rum you all love so much?

[MIKEY]

Very well said, Yaardarm Monkey.

Mikey, I think you're too stubborn...lol.

Instead of going on the defensive, I want you to answer me some questions, once again...lol.

1. Considering one maxoid says EA has/will retract...balh blah blah...and EA itself still has not changed their EULA, why do you still think that that one person is worth believing over the EULA?

2. If EA comes out and says, look people! We've answered all these questions you've been asking us in the EULA and NO you cannot make profit off of the items you make for our game *which it clearly states in the EULA anayway*...what would you do? What would your stance be then?

3. Do you really believe that simply because the law is murky in this area, according to some, that that small grey area makes it okay? I feel that taking advantage of that grey area shows an utter disrespect for both EA and the community. How do you feel about that?

There are more Q's I have, but the baby isn't napping yet, so I'll be back again at you later. Beware.  :twisted:
 :lol:

*is so scary, right?*

And hey, maybe if you answer my questions I'll bring more boobehs.

ha.

First, sorry if I double post.
Second, one should never play with the promise of boobies...LOL
I'll hold you to the boobies...or something like that


Oh, how can I answer your questions...Hmmmmm?  Wait!  I know...

Please read what I have said prior...But in the interest of possible boobies, let me summarize;

I believe we charge for the service. (Yes there is special content as a reward, but it is in the name or 'minor security')

I don't believe a group of folks that operate in the 'grey area' have the where-with-all to question whether I think I am operating in the 'grey area'(and yes, I spell grey with an 'e'.  I'm Canadian, Damnit!!!)  LOL
Really, folks.  Morality is subjective to the individual(s) using it.  We both believe ourselves to be 'right' therefore our morality reflects our respective beliefs.  In your mind you're heroes, in my mind you've stolen from my people.  So for this question we are going to have to agree to disagree...at least until the interpretation becomes more standard or EA grows some balls...

IF EA ever comes out and officially states clearly what their standing is, I will immediately cease charging for access to the adult content.  And at that time the adult content would become unavailable to the community until such a time that I could find a way that appeals to me to reasonably safeguard it from availability to minors.  At that time, I would also hope that PMBD has enough honor in them to also remove our files, specifically the adult ones, from 'the booty', in order to comply with our wish to keep them out of children's hands.

[Yaardarm Monkey]

Perhaps you need to read the posts I have placed in here over the last few days in order to better gauge what I am here to talk about before you continue to question or challenge me.

Maybe it will make it easier for you to understand what I am here to debate if I tell you this; "I MAKE NOTHING FOR THE SIMS, I DON'T PLAY THE SIMS.", and the rest I will not repeat, yet again.

And maybe all you need is some more of that Rum you all love so much?

1. "continue to question or challenge me"  
= What the heck?  Maybe that Ceasar shtick works on your forum...
If you noticed, I was using your own words, so yes, I did read your posts.

2. You may not make anything, you may not play the sims...
 but you sell things for the sims.

3. No more rum, I have enough thank you.

4. I find that a perfectly reasoned and considered post is tossed aside by you in a flippant and puerile manner.  Again.

Dont bother with another one of your less than witty retorts; I shall not bother to read any more of your trollish and invective missives.

[calalily]

Yup.  Right up until the community screamed that having an "I agree that I am 18..." disclaimer wasn't good enough to try to keep minors out of our adult content...

Sure - got a screenshot or reference?

'Warranty'; Will accept return in the eventuality that there is something wrong with the product. And I have actually tried to return software to both WalMart, Future Shop, and The Source, and were told that once the package was opened, they were not liable to accept returns; "Well you could have copied it already", was the usual reasoning...

Actually, I've returned a Playstation game - based on flawed coding in the game where you could fall through the walls and end up passing a new level - so it can be done - you're just not persistent enough - or rather you're not interested.

Actually, then your memory is flawed, because I recall seeing an actual screenshot of an email, or PM between someone and EA stating that they should not compound the issue by uploading/sharing others creations on the Exchange...I'll see if I kept it...

Until I see proof - Nouk's letter stands.  And I doubt I'll see proof, so I won't hold my breath.

Sorry. Your too late.  Rum has already been availed upon my person by your esteemed colleagues...

Rum privileges hereby revoked - from one of the long time members.

Still does not take away from my argument.  "the lay-person" has all the same rights, if not more, to question as they see fit, if they do not agree, or see fault with a legal interpretation or law.

They might question, but that doesn't mean they're right.  Many a lawyer shakes his head at the foolishness of plaintiffs who reckon they're right, and persist long after they're told they're wrong.  

I was in no way insulting his spelling ability, so my apologies if that was the context it was taken in.  I was merely pointing out that we are all flawed, or have erred, thus he cannot say 'I am a retired judge so do not question me'.

Don't try and back away from that - you've spent a great deal of time insulting other people's intelligence, and trying to make out we are all idiots.  I'm not fooled by you trying to dodge your shabby behaviour.

As for the "Lawyer I pulled out of my arse"; (and I say this as nicely as possible) Don't question my sources and opinions if you won't let me question yours. You are not the end-all-be-all of information.  You are not always right.  If you are truly as 'enlightened' as you believe yourself to be, allow for the possibility, at least, that you can be wrong about something.  In other words, don't be so freaking close-minded.  Or the fact that you say you are willing to debate the issue is a farce, and your motives are other than that.

You have troubles paying for bandwidth, but can afford the $1000 retainer to a lawyer for consultation?

As for my sources, if I was willing to reveal my real name, you could check on my sources - and the classes I've done.  You'd definately find my name as a presenter at criminology conferences.  I'm not willing to reveal my real name because from there, it's a hop, skip and a jump to my phone number, my workplace and all kinds of information.

As for being wrong, well, not one of the people I've debated with have ever given any proof that they are right - and I'm willing to give ground if they are right.  Rather they talk of nebulous screenshots that no one else has seen, proof from EA they don't have, and neglect.  My point of view, however, contains actual screenshots from EA.

[Apsalar]

mikey, after your two last posts, I completely confused. I am a fairly intelligent person, and I don't understand why you are trying to achieve by coming here and 'debate' as you call it.  You need to change your wording and explain, because I am completely confused. It's common courtesy to try to explain when someone don't understand what you are saying, so don't tell me to re-read your posts. I am being completely honest here.


1. Why are you here in the first place?
2. What's your goal with your site?
3. Why are you being so stubborn?

These are reasonable questions. Now, if you could answer them in a short, direct and pedagogical manner...

[watergirl]

Interesting reading in here  

I don't think MIKEY!!! is really arguing over EULA or what he thinks is every one's own interpretation of it is.

He said he doesn't like our methodology, how PMBD does things.  I think he is here because PMBD is sharing files from his site which were bought and paid for by a PMBD member. Who do have the right to share it after that paid for it.

So MIKEY!!! why don't you think we have the right to share what was paid for?

[Jaida]

Mikey how about having each downloader make an account with your site? I think that'd be much more effective because it hasn't let Decorgal, inSimenator, or MTS2 down. You can also prevent file leeching by banning members that steal files from you.

[ratfink]

Read it again, it does not specify the 'game' at all...Sorry, but implications are not statement of fact, and are self defined by each who reads it.  There is more than one way to interpret that EULA, and it is exactly the problem.

I am sorry if this has been said before but... The very cornerstone of contract law is that is to legally articulate an agreement between two parties.  If there is not an agreement or meeting of the minds then there isn't a contract.  Usually the two sides come together though negotiation; however a usage contract is something quite different.  Since EA doesn't leave the door open for negotiation, the contract really is a take it or leave it one, and since EA is setting the terms of the contract it is their and their only interpretation that sets the meaning of the contract.   If you do however make a good faith effort to understand the contract but for whatever reason what you think the contract means is far different then what the writer (EA) believes it is, all a judge can do (barring parts of the contract being illegal) is declare that there was no meeting of the minds and rule the contract invalid.  This only requires the writer of the contract to refund your money and you to return the software and destroy derivative works.   Never would EA be bound to your interpretation of the contract ever.

[MIKEY]

Sorry, folks.  But this Head/Chest cold is kicking the shit outta me.  Hopefully I feel better tomorrow and can answer your questions.  At most I'm hoping I feel better in a couple of days.  I've had it since Sasturday already, thought it would go away...

Ah'll be bahk!!!

MIKEY!!!

[FrenchOnion]

Mikey,

Before you end up banned for necromancy and trolling I thought I would try to help you see the light. The whole thing seems completely obvious to me but here goes my attempt at over simplification:

For some reason reason paysite owners want to cling to this notion that their precious art is ALL that is being sold and that just isn't the case. Your 'product' is a .package file and it belongs to EA. If you want to sell .jpgs and wire models (the 'art') go right ahead, but you cannot OWN a .package file and therefore cannot SELL one.

Additonally, EA HAS stated that all .package files are shareable. So, while you MIGHT be able to get by on some "I sell access" BS to justify your charging people, once the packages are taken from your site they are in the world to be shared.(Because you don't own them  :wink: )  Selling access and not a 'product' forfeits any claim of 'ownership' of any .package files you have in members only areas. You CAN NOT have it both ways.

(To everyone: God, can you imagine the horrific customer service end of selling the raw files for sheeple to assemble themselves?!  :shock: )

P.S. Mikey, You do REALIZE that while it may be true that you don't use or play The Sims but that SimPE use for profit is also techically illegal? Reverse Engineering and all. Besides, are you suggesting that NO ONE in your organization uses The Sims Body Shop? And if so are you also telling us that none of your 'products' have been tested in game?!

[Zazazu]

Besides, are you suggesting that NO ONE in your organization uses The Sims Body Shop? And if so are you also telling us that none of your 'products' have been tested in game?!

If he is attempting to do so, a quick glance at the home page http://www.mandmneedfulthings.ca/S2_Entrance.htm prooves that to be inaccurate. The very first photo was taken in BodyShop.

Mikey, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, partially because you've been waffling a lot on whether you think it's ok to charge for .package files. You haven't waffled on whether it's right to charge for access to adult material in the general sense. On this we agree, in theory. However, you cannot separate the two, and using the fact that you are only charging for access to adult material to justify charging for .package files just doesn't cut it.

For a child to get a credit card is ridiculously easy. I know many parents who give their children gift cards, usable exactly like a Mastercard or Visa, for Christmas or birthday. They can then use these to go to a store and buy some yummies, or can go online and buy virtual goodies. Using these types of cards for virtual goodies is quite common...why do you think all these MMORPGs can be "free"? They rake it in at the cash shop, where kiddies buy points with mom & dad's paypal account, mom & dad's credit card, or the $50 limit Mastercard gift card they got for their 14th.

Can we agree that charging for access does not prevent access by under 18's?

[Ry]

There's your boobehs for answering.

But, Mikey. I have to say, that people wouldn't be asking you the same questions over and over if you were able to better explain the answers. It's the same stuff with no real details that you keep giving us.
All of the *unspecific* answers you give, are basically the same stuff everyone else says, and people want to know what Mikey thinks, not the sheeple.  
Unless those are really all you've got, then I guess you're a sheeple too.


Hope you feel better soon, and your family as well!!

[AW]

As I have stated before, where we live is rather affluent.  There are kids (not mine) who at 14 have credit cards or the debit/credit cards, not to mention retail as well.  (I get flack because my kids have cell phones).  I had an Amex at 17 and a gas card in my name under my social.  

However, Mikey has said that the site he owns voted to keep some content pay.  I don't know if this was an underage issue or not, I don't remember.

Hope you and your family feel better soon.  And don't come back all pissey either, you got boobehs didn't ya?

[MIKEY]

There's your boobehs for answering.

But, Mikey. I have to say, that people wouldn't be asking you the same questions over and over if you were able to better explain the answers. It's the same stuff with no real details that you keep giving us.
All of the *unspecific* answers you give, are basically the same stuff everyone else says, and people want to know what Mikey thinks, not the sheeple.  
Unless those are really all you've got, then I guess you're a sheeple too.


Hope you feel better soon, and your family as well!!

Ok, here it is in a nutshell;

We used to have 100% free content.  Adult stuff as well.  We did have the "I am 18 yrs or older' disclaimer button, but apparently at that time it was not enough.  We were regularly raked over the coals by members,  prospective members, and members parents.  Numerous emails from parents; wish we had kept them now, but didn't see a need then.

Anyhoo, at that time, we polled our members and mods, and the access sub for the Adult content was born, by consensus.  All the while we were looking for ways to make the stuff 'free' and still maintain the level of success at keeping minors at bay, that we were now experiencing.

So...So far we have found nothing that measures up, BTW...

Anyhoo...we decided that as we did not want to profit off the folks, and because our site was growing pretty good and we could not really afford the costs associated, we would apply the sub fees to the costs.  This worked out well, and kept us from having to close the sites, and continue to make the friends we were.

Now that all being said, I wish to add something that I really don't have a need to tell you, but am going to in the spirit of honesty and integrity;

We have been working on a plan to go 'free' (possibly donation) for the past few months, but when we rcvd emails basically telling us to go free or else,...well let's just say I don't respond well to bullies.

MIKEY!!!
"Jesus healed the sick, walked on water. He never said, "Take my children unto your lands, Bravo Tango, One Four. We got bogies at 1 o'clock. They have forsaken me, FIRE!"[/i]

[Ry]

If you need any help going free, let me know. I'm not good at much but I learn fast.

And who were the e-mails from?
*glad you feel better and your family too*