I smell bullshit

[NeptuneSuzy]

sickpuppy: No, it didn't come 'directly after' your. Me is beginning to think thou protest too much....

Ooops, I guess I was reading quickly..... I'm working and trying to follow this thread at the same time, LOL!  

But don't keep me in suspense...... who is the infamous sheep??? LOL!

Edit to add: Oops again you just posted that you were baaing at lordrichter............ You must have edited when i was posting, or I'm going blind, LOL!

[sickpuppy]

not blind--we ARE overlapping.

[lordrichter]

No, it didn't come 'directly after' your post. Me is beginning to think thou protest too much....  :lol:

Had to go look at the spellling: I was baaing at 'I agree with Dr. Pixel' lordrichter who, also, it appears, at least to me, can't seem to decide which direction s/he is travelingin.

This is because you think that I am trying to tell you what to do, and that you should not be doing what you are doing.  I am not, but you are probably reading it that way...

[sickpuppy]

:lol: No, it's not that.  :lol:  

I smell 12ness....

[...]

This simply isn't true, copyright is not a grey area. When any individual puts an idea from their head into something tangible they own a copyright to that tangible item.

Very true, and that's not what I'm arguing.

This cannot be copied by another individual. It has nothing to do with money being made. I'm not sure why people have drawn this false conclusion. it's about intellectual property plain and simple.

The creator may not mind their work being copied, but that doesn't change the rules of copyright.

I don't know. From what I've seen about the actual implementation of copyright law (artist/writing communities, fyi), the rules are not clear cut and are not consistant - and I'm not entirely sure that copyright as it stands right now is of much good to anyone but big corporations.

I'm not suggesting that people should be happy about being taken from, or that people should reuse and share the artwork of others (when it is actually the other person's) indiscrimanently, or that it isn't ever a violation to do so. Hm... I'm not being very clear, I realize.

To boil it down, I'm not so sure that the screams of copyright violation are actually as correct those screaming make it out to be, based on my own experiences, and I'm very tired of the conflation of 'against copyright law' (as percieved by the screamer) equaling 'ethically wrong', especially considering the usual mores of gaming communities and how very many people use work from outside sources, change it a tiny bit, and then insist that it is theirs.

Blah, blah, blah. I'm heading into tldr; land and not making as much sense as I'd like to, so I'll stop boring you lot and try again tomorrow if the conversation hasn't completely veered in other directions by then.

And BTW, putting an original bmp into an EA package does not relinquish the creator's rights to their ORIGINAL work.

Which I said. Please read carefully.

[BlueSoup]

I don't really know what to say about the whole paysite debate..... I have a Free Site and I (as well as Grizzelda) want everyone to share and recolor our meshes.... one thrill as a creator is to see my meshes recolored! I also love to see my creations all over! Everytime I see a screenie with one of my Medieval Hair or Gown creations I'm thrilled!  
I'm also at TSR as an FA. I just want to make it clear that I'm not there for the alleged big bucks....I'm there for the community of friends that I've had for years now.  I understand that my creations over there are Pay items but that's a compromise I make.

It's a compromise you make, sure, I can understand that.  Sort of.  I have a major hate-on for Thomas, but that has nothing to do with you, so I won't even bother you with it.  I can understand not wanting to leave the friends you've made there.  I have been to your site (TS2 Creations) and I know you offer content there free, is it all the same as you put up at TSR?  If so, good on ya.

Also I can't understand any of the negative opinions made against mts2, Delphy is the single most influencial person in the Sims2 community when it comes to Free Content!  Without mts2, a Free site, we wouldn't have the support to make CC.

The only problem I have ever had with Delphy is when he allowed a forum on MTS2 to be created specifically to target filesharers, which is when my personal home address was shared.  Once LyricLee was gone, the forum was deleted, and thus my problem with him is gone.  On the contrary, I'm mostly happy with the way he's handling paysite issues now (allowing them to be debated, and requiring CC recolourists to state whether they're recolouring a pay mesh, etc.)

For someone to copy and share that is simple theft of intellectual property. It's wrong, and it's rude to anyone who created an original bitmap etc. And it's considered rude in all gaming communities when someone copies someone else's bitmap etc file without asking their permission first.

We don't do that - we buy content from paysites and then share it amongst ourselves.

[Captain Flint]

Welcome to the U.S. Copyright Office:

Here is the copyright address:

http://www.copyright.gov/about.html

And here is the law pertaining Visual Art Works:

http://www.copyright.gov/register/visual.html

Although in online arguments, i read it states that maxis does not own your material' but when used in their games/computer playable material, it is of free use to them to do what they please to it.. including useing it in future expansions, not that they own it, although that argument may be wrong? thats what i have read into it so far, You lose control of your object/Material.

[jesserocket]

NepuneSuzy, I would first like to say how much I admire you, while I don't agree with you, it just goes to show what a difference an attitude can make, between yours and Dr Pixel's, and to a confusing extent, Lordrichter.

Ah well in *that* case, why not as a group all move elsewhere?  You don't need to lose your connections with your friends at all

If you could consider this...it would be wonderful.

[...]

thats what i have read into it so far, You lose control of your object/Material.

I think it's that one loses control of their object/material as far as it is put into the package file, but not that one completely relenquishes copyright. As far as that goes, at least. I'm not a fan of EULAs in general but I don't quite believe they have no validity whatsoever.

Yeah, yeah, shutting up now.

[Captain Flint]

lordrichter and people like him is the sole reason for this forums existence, Hence the "I Smell Bullshit" Term.  :wink:

[Captain Flint]

thats what i have read into it so far, You lose control of your object/Material.

I think it's that one loses control of their object/material as far as it is put into the package file, but not that one completely relenquishes copyright. As far as that goes, at least. I'm not a fan of EULAs in general but I don't quite believe they have no validity whatsoever.

Yeah, yeah, shutting up now.

It may be either or? i just dont know without EA's actual intellect on the whole matter  
i do not think they are ever gonna step in and advise on what is and is not on any matter concerning the sims2 as long as they are recieving royalties on it? which is a shame as it may stomp out alot of crud from happening throughout the comunities.

[BlueSoup]

Sorry, I'm reading two pages of threads now, so I am writing replies as I read them:

I think it's his attitude that's generating such negative responses. His actions don't have anything to do w/it. If he's mean and pissy pple are going to be mean and pissy right back.

That is exactly why there's a problem with some people towards Dr Pixel - his content has nothing to do with it, his attitude does.

[lordrichter]

I don't know. From what I've seen about the actual implementation of copyright law (artist/writing communities, fyi), the rules are not clear cut and are not consistant - and I'm not entirely sure that copyright as it stands right now is of much good to anyone but big corporations.

US copyright law is definitely geared towards the corporate world, if you ask me (and I know you were dying to do that).  The fact that you have to be registered in order to even bring legal action sets the tone right there.  Sure, it only costs $45 to register a copyright, but a copyright only covers a single work and you must register each work that you want to protect.

To boil it down, I'm not so sure that the screams of copyright violation are actually as correct those screaming make it out to be, based on my own experiences, and I'm very tired of the conflation of 'against copyright law' (as percieved by the screamer) equaling 'ethically wrong', especially considering the usual mores of gaming communities and how very many people use work from outside sources, change it a tiny bit, and then insist that it is theirs.

There are only two ways that I could see this.  The first is if the "original material" wasn't so original and was therefore not copyrightable, like you said.  No copyright, no violation.  However, someone owns it and it isn't the public, so while the content creator might not be able to scream 'infringement', someone else might be able to.

The other is if someone tried to say that it was "fair use" to distribute it or reuse it, and so for no one has successfully made that case.

[BlueSoup]

Filesharing isn't legal if you don't have the right to share, and just because a Sims 2 site posts something for pay doesn't change that. Doesn't matter if you paid for it or not because you never paid for the right to distribute it.

Funny, because I don't think any creators have paid for the right to sell their EA-derivative works either.

[Captain Flint]

Filesharing isn't legal if you don't have the right to share, and just because a Sims 2 site posts something for pay doesn't change that. Doesn't matter if you paid for it or not because you never paid for the right to distribute it.

Funny, because I don't think any creators have paid for the right to sell their EA-derivative works either.

You are correct    

even if they did pay for the right to sell' they would only be allowed to sell their own original mesh or texture file created beyond the games content..
not the original works built by maxis
unless they gave them permission which i dont see happening anytime soon, as is that creation would be useless unless someone bought it and used it for the games sole purpose.