So it begins... Or something slightly less dramatic

[Aquamarine]

God, people need to get the fuck over themselves.

Edit: Actually, I'll try to make this post a little more worthwhile.

Meh, screw it, if you just want shitty paysites meshes to redistribute and whatever's left, fine.  I got better shit I can do with my time than make crap for people who clearly don't care one bit for artistic karma.  Hope all of you enjoy trying to fingerpaint in your next life.

This is so horribly condescending and snotty I don't know where to begin. Not to mention that no one (aside from yipee, but I don't know what the hell's going on there) was being rude in the least. Yeah, so good job showing respect for the people you're demanding it from.

Aside from that nonsense - I really, really dislike mesh hunting. Chinafansims comes to mind... when a mesh isn't included, there's a link to the site, but in most cases there's no indication as to what the mesh actually is. In most cases, I'll simply not download the item and move on if I have to look too hard for the mesh. You may think it's "lazy," but I say I shouldn't be obligated to scavenger hunt for something that may or may not be available in the first place.

HP, in your case (as has been said) you're very well established. People know you mostly from MTS2 and you're clearly not without comments/admiration for your work. But you're the exception, not the rule. And given the shitfits that have been thrown lately in this "community," it's been more and more difficult to find certain items. I think you're making this far more personal than this really is.

I swear, this is really the only medium where people seem to be able to get away with having such weird issues. As a writer, I'm happy enough when people actually *see* my stuff.

[dorquemada]

I have several things by both HP and Lethe in my game and their efforts are greatly appreciated (and I almost always hit the thanks button), just not their attitudes. While what you make is really nifty, I think perhaps you should stand back and look at the big picture. You're creating for a video game, supposedly because you enjoy doing it and like knowing that others use your things. I think the long TOSs are just plain silly and make you look pretentious.
(Note that I'm using "you" in a general sense.)

Agreed with everything. If people  create CC for reasons other than "It's fun and I'm loving it, yay!" - e.g., reasons like validation and praises from complete strangers on Internet - methinks they should find themselves a new hobby, because old one isn't working properly anymore.

[Lethe]

Ok, Liegenschonheit, I jumped to conclusions. It was something that struck me, on your site.
While I don't agree with what you're doing, it would make sense to me if you went 'all the way'.


As for the reasonc cc creators have to upload their stuff, I don't think you can tell them 'why' they should be doing it. Different creators have different reasons. Some do it for the money, some for 'fame' and some for fun or whatever.
I know I started cause I was unemployed and had too much time on my hands, not to mention that the compliments I got upped my self esteem a *lot*. Enough to keep going and *do* get a good job (which means I now have hardly any time to make meshes).
Sappiness aside, it's probably not a good move to tell creators to go home if they're doing it for the thanks. Nothing ever comes for free, and I think a huge majority of cc creators upload their stuff, at least in part, for the attention and thanks it gets them. And really, is it that much to ask?
That's why the TOS's are sometimes long, and why they would get upset if you take that away from them.

[redisenchanted]

First time post here.  

I have a hypothetical question.  Let's say I decide to stop making objects and start making clothes.  I make this really great mesh that I post on MTS2 and there are some wonderful recolors of it made all over the Sims community.  I am so excited by this that I update my mesh thread on MTS2 and rezip or rerar my mesh with the recolors that I really like.  I give links and credit, of course, on my thread page, but now you can get the recolors with my mesh.  Would that be OK?

Why not? Sauce for the gander and all.

I have a few somewhat lame mesh recolors from before Pets. If the original mesh maker, or anyone else for that matter, wanted to repost them. I don't care in the slightest. I don't much care even if they don't give credit and a link, but I don't expect most creators to stretch that far.

[Xeon_Black]

Meh, screw it, if you just want shitty paysites meshes to redistribute and whatever's left, fine.  I got better shit I can do with my time than make crap for people who clearly don't care one bit for artistic karma.  Hope all of you enjoy trying to fingerpaint in your next life.

This is so horribly condescending and snotty I don't know where to begin. Not to mention that no one (aside from yipee, but I don't know what the hell's going on there) was being rude in the least. Yeah, so good job showing respect for the people you're demanding it from.

That was exactly how I felt after reading HP's post. Just because people disagree by expressing their opinions, doesn't mean they're being plain nasty and angry.  I myself do not entirely agree on what Liegan is doing, but I can somewhat understand her reasons, and everyone's else who has supported her decision. So far from what I've read of their opinions, they did not sound malicious nor resentful. They brought up their case in a mature manner, and even express their gratitude and respect to HP.  

But if there's one thing I noticed for some time, HP tends to patronize, so I guess it's no surprise to see her acting like that.

[BlackPearl]

The fact that I was called a theif pissed me off pretty bad because I hand made that alpha myself.

I love that. How many shapes can a neckline be?  Don't worry though, I stole it first  I steal everything!

RIGHT!  That is what I was pissed about.  For petes sake, I made the damn thing how I thought it was pretty and I guess someone else had the same idea.  But to whine and bitch to the site owner that it was "stolen"??  That is another, "Bitch, please" out of me.  

But Dour, I KNOW you stole it first...  ROFLMAO!!

 :lol:

I am reading and understanding both sides here.  I realize some meshers just want a little "courtesy call" by an artist just asking.  But what if they say "no", and others say, "yes"?  It would definately become a hassle to make that Yay/Nay list for a recolorist.  Honestly, meshers/artists/recolorists/creators should really be honored that thier stuff is being used and redistributed for FREE and anyone with any salt as an artist will give credit to the meshers/artists/recolorists/creators that they use and redistribute.  

Those that are upset right now are pissed at those that are admitting to redistribution with credits.  I think I would be more pissed at the little fuckers that take your shit and redistribute it withOUT credits and claim it as their own.

JMO

[Anouk]

Hey Liegen, I uploaded half your content to my site and credited you, we're still cool right? Lol  

Next: Doursim!  

(lol completely pointless because I add no artistic value by uploading something that 1. has nothing to do with me, as to I did not create anything with it 2. is allready on the web)

No, I think a recolor/retexture is different from a mesh. A mesh is a base for making possibly thousands of clothing items.  Using someone elses textures as a base is different to me, (especially without permission) because it reeks of lack of talent and/or lazyness.
Plus uploading someone elses textures is pretty pointless to me.

[Quinctia]

I can maybe see it with a hair texture, if you want to make alternate colors that still look like the same head of hair.  You know, different shades of natural colors, some wacky shades, or adding streaks and the like to the original textures.

I can't really think of a valid reason for clothing textures, except maybe using a plain t-shirt as a base to make ones with logos and sayings on them.

[Doursim]

I dunno, I think that a "dreamlist" by the mesh creator wouldn't be too bad.  Yes, it's already available somewhere else, but this is a compilation, if you credit each texture with a link to it's homesite then isn't that basically free advertising?  Nouk, if you listed your favorite recolors of any of your hair meshes, that would direct a pretty chunk of traffic to any of those sites.

[Xerolize]

i know some creators who allow you to reuse their shoe textures especially altheltic (sp?) shoes.

[liegenschonheit]

lol Nouk
Sure, go for it. Nothing in my (pretty much nonexistant and totally unenforced)  TOS says you can't, just stick a credit on there somewhere. I will admit that yes, I like recognition and all that good stuff, but I'm not too picky on where I get it. At some point, I just decided that my policy is to really have no real policy, it's much easier. If you actually take the time to read the thing, my TOS actually states that you can steal my alphas and textures, if you want.

Nouk, I for one seriously appreciate the fact that your policy allows for distribution of your meshes. I know for a fact that people are still clicking links from my site to get back to you, not to get the meshes, but because your stuff is so nice that they want MORE.

Anyway, yeah. I'm not all out to destroy anyone or to take away from their accolades or anything like that. I want to make things easier on the people who download from me, and to be honest, on me. I get PMs and Emails all the time from people saying "so and so site is down, and I can't get the mesh! Help!" Yes, you may have no plans to take down your site now, but things happen and then we all get the headaches again.

So I'll reiterate, one more time. I am not trying to destroy, hurt, be mean to, or otherwise punish any site by doing this. I don't have any vendettas and though I think this is a good idea, if other sites don't want to do this, thats fine too. I don't believe having meshes distributed freely harms anyone, if that was the case then SimChic would have been down a long time ago. I mean no disrespect to anyone by posting their meshes, if anything I am showing my gratitude and appreciation of the meshes by using them for my recolours. I try to weed out the crappy ones in the hopes that they just go off and die somewhere.

[Anouk]

lol Nouk
Sure, go for it. Nothing in my (pretty much nonexistant and totally unenforced)  TOS says you can't, just stick a credit on there somewhere. I will admit that yes, I like recognition and all that good stuff, but I'm not too picky on where I get it. At some point, I just decided that my policy is to really have no real policy, it's much easier. If you actually take the time to read the thing, my TOS actually states that you can steal my alphas and textures, if you want.

Nouk, I for one seriously appreciate the fact that your policy allows for distribution of your meshes. I know for a fact that people are still clicking links from my site to get back to you, not to get the meshes, but because your stuff is so nice that they want MORE.

Anyway, yeah. I'm not all out to destroy anyone or to take away from their accolades or anything like that. I want to make things easier on the people who download from me, and to be honest, on me. I get PMs and Emails all the time from people saying "so and so site is down, and I can't get the mesh! Help!" Yes, you may have no plans to take down your site now, but things happen and then we all get the headaches again.

So I'll reiterate, one more time. I am not trying to destroy, hurt, be mean to, or otherwise punish any site by doing this. I don't have any vendettas and though I think this is a good idea, if other sites don't want to do this, thats fine too. I don't believe having meshes distributed freely harms anyone, if that was the case then SimChic would have been down a long time ago. I mean no disrespect to anyone by posting their meshes, if anything I am showing my gratitude and appreciation of the meshes by using them for my recolours. I try to weed out the crappy ones in the hopes that they just go off and die somewhere.

LOL *grabs everything and runs*

But I was thinking, your cause is to upload more complete sets for the downloaders to enjoy, with mesh included.
Wouldn't it be better if you find a bunch of sites that agree with this cause, make somekind of letter together, and send them out to meshers who's stuff you enjoy.
This way it's seen as a joint initiative and it comes about more positively.
Bringing it as something meshers would percieve as something negative will make them less motivated to ever let anyone upload anything with their meshes. (Like HP, who would have given you permission easily if you had just contacted her in advance.)

Ultimately you an I and alot of creators (we're not the only ones, obvioiusly) would like to see uploading meshes with recolors and credit as a norm. So would you like that idea?

[Doursim]

I would certainly sign that letter.  I've always despised that policy, and would love to see mesh included packages become standard.