Oh EA, you money-greedy bastards. ):

[SoggyFox]

So, what they are saying is female gamers tend towards needing less of the various skin care items that other women need, because we don't clog our pores?  Yup - oh, and we tend to look younger because we don't spend hours getting tans and torturing our skin.

And I've had depression issues as long as I can remember, from about 5-6 on.  Yeah, its all the fault of video games, which wouldn't exist for another 12 years.  They are so wise.

[neriana]

Or hey, maybe gamers are actually stronger than average. I know the people I worked with were quite strong and fit, and my boyfriend, whom I met online in a gaming community, is incredibly strong.

Now that, I'm a bit skeptical of. The ones you *SAW* are stronger and fitter, perhaps because they actually occasionally move. Being that computers are rather heavy, you therefore need to become stronger to actually move about with your computer

Yes, that was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Oh, but SoggyFox, it's not that games cause your depression, it's that you're self-medicating! When I was a lonely kid, being made fun of for getting As and not wearing makeup at age 9, I used to read all the time, more than I do now even. I'd read during breaks, I'd read on the walk home, I'd read before bed. When I wasn't reading, I was imagining new worlds and people to fill them. Obviously all of this was sad, because I was self-medicating. My parents should have taken me to counseling and gotten me official approved drugs so that I could be just like everyone else, rather than doing this oh so counterproductive stuff like imagining and thinking. And now, why, since I like playing games, and reading, and writing, I'm still self-medicating!

Exercise to feel better? You're avoiding your problems! Watch TV? Evading the real world! Do carpentry? Obviously an attempt to impose order on disorder, you have serious problems! Feel kinda down until you have sex with your S.O.? ZOMG dependent!! Don't have an S.O., but do have mechanical aids, and cheer yourself up that way? Pervert! Anything you do to cheer yourself up, any kind of entertainment or temporary escape from "reality" (whatever that is), is really just a poor substitute for what you "really" need! This is the kind of mentality that discredits all of psychiatry. The people the most angry about that idiotic report shouldn't be gamers, but mental health professionals. Mental health professionals who are gamers are probably climbing the walls.

Obviously this topic makes me even more soap-boxy than usual.

[SoggyFox]

Oh, I agree - though my mom took me to a counsellor as a kid - was put in with a group of girls my own age - and the counsellor soon realized that my problems did not belong in that - that my problems were parental.  So, into counselling with my mom - and that didn't work.  Apparently, I just avoided the generation of throwing pills at mental and emotional problems.

And I should be on meds for being manic-depressive - but -  they make me into a zombie and I don't want to lose my happy swings just to not have crying jags.

So yup, self-medicating, and if I'm a dependent pervert, well....most folks who know me, know that's half right

[MrsBulldog]

Hm. Interesting study. Allow me to offer my retort:

http://www.virtua.org/page.cfm?id=pressroom_showrelease&pressID=1338

http://www.mercybehavioral.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=news&id=116042&cn=109

http://www.disaboom.com/Living/militarylife/video-game-helps-disabled-veterans-conquer-ptsd.aspx

Having a childhood mired in abuse and neglect, and being totally powerless in my family system because nobody cared enough to ask how I felt about anything ever is what made me fat and depressed. And if creating a fantasy world filled with things I love and where I have total godlike control offers a healing polar extreme experience to my shit-ass childhood, then I'll take the "self-medication". It's either that or hard drugs and booze.

And the the rebuttal of the CDC study pretty much states my initial reaction-it doesn't seem confounding variables were accounted for, and the population studied seemed largely self-selected (i.e.-why would fit, happy people who enjoy video games volunteer for a study? They're too busy being fit, happy gamers. The depressed ones are going to volunteer because they're the ones who are more likely to seek self-inquiry. If there's one way to make validity questionable, it's have a self-selected sample). Lastly, I'd like to read the actual peer-reviewed study WITH the data, so I can see if they're just reporting numbers that support a predetermined hypothesis, of if they created hypothesis based on their findings (the latter is preferred to account for experimenter bias).

Just my .02... Oh, and always be skeptical of government/corporation sponsored studies. Self-interest and sociopolitical agendas too often seeps into those because of where the grant money comes from (that accounts for my rebuttal too). University funded studies overseen by an Institutional Review Board tend to show less bias... tend, not always.

[Inyanye]

Oh, I agree - though my mom took me to a counsellor as a kid - was put in with a group of girls my own age - and the counsellor soon realized that my problems did not belong in that - that my problems were parental.  So, into counselling with my mom - and that didn't work.  Apparently, I just avoided the generation of throwing pills at mental and emotional problems.

And I should be on meds for being manic-depressive - but -  they make me into a zombie and I don't want to lose my happy swings just to not have crying jags.

So yup, self-medicating, and if I'm a dependent pervert, well....most folks who know me, know that's half right

Ditto.  Everything they have put me on to "regulate the extremes of my emotions" has left me flatlined emotionally.  No sad, but no happy either.  My feelings toward my loved ones were even dulled, which is a VERY BAD THING when you're a mother of two.  The cure was worse than the disease.  So if every once in a while mommy withdraws into games or books, I still take care of and love them during that time.  Having me a little distracted and grumpy sometimes has been way better than the drug induced constant daze that Zoloft and Prozac put me into.  I'm not saying the meds are bad for everyone, at all times, but I do think that they are overprescribed, and that a little escapism isn't a bad way to deal with things if you can still function.

[SoggyFox]

Also, medications not only distanced me and caused my love ones pain, but there is also this - it dulls my creativity [and look at the history of novelists and artists] and that hurt worst of all.

[paperbeth]

Same here. I'm an artist by profession and the meds do eat away at my creativity. Sometimes I need to be a little dpressed. It gives me an edge that I don't seem to have when I'm on meds. I am supposed to take them everyday, but often I don't and it takes 2 weeks to get through 1 weeks worth of meds.
Yeah, they keep me from banging my head on the wall, but they also keep me from having any intense emotion at all. And you gotta have some intensity to be even a half decent artist.

[Scurvy Cat]

Interesting.  I've been on anti-depressants for years and never had any of those issues.  Without them I was creatively non-functional, even if I was having brilliant ideas it wasn't worth acting on them.  As for interacting with other people, same deal. I just couldn't be bothered when I wasn't on meds.

Different body chemistry, different reactions, I guess.

[paperbeth]

I saw Patton Oswalt talking about this very thing in his comedy special last night. He said he doesn't like taking his anti-depression meds because he feels like he needs his depression sometimes. It calls to him and says "please take me out somewhere and play with me, please. Don't keep me cooped up in here all the time. I need fresh air and sunlight too."
He also self-medicates with scotch, the internet, and pot.
Aside from the scotch (must have rum instead), I'm right there with him.

[missangelica]

Oh, I agree - though my mom took me to a counsellor as a kid - was put in with a group of girls my own age - and the counsellor soon realized that my problems did not belong in that - that my problems were parental.  So, into counselling with my mom - and that didn't work.  Apparently, I just avoided the generation of throwing pills at mental and emotional problems.

And I should be on meds for being manic-depressive - but -  they make me into a zombie and I don't want to lose my happy swings just to not have crying jags.

So yup, self-medicating, and if I'm a dependent pervert, well....most folks who know me, know that's half right

Ditto.  Everything they have put me on to "regulate the extremes of my emotions" has left me flatlined emotionally.  No sad, but no happy either.  My feelings toward my loved ones were even dulled, which is a VERY BAD THING when you're a mother of two.  The cure was worse than the disease.  So if every once in a while mommy withdraws into games or books, I still take care of and love them during that time.  Having me a little distracted and grumpy sometimes has been way better than the drug induced constant daze that Zoloft and Prozac put me into.  I'm not saying the meds are bad for everyone, at all times, but I do think that they are overprescribed, and that a little escapism isn't a bad way to deal with things if you can still function.

As a child of a maniac depressive, it's disheartening to read that medicine has not worked for you.  Children need stability and by the very nature of what bipolar is, you can't be stable in the same way that others can.  It's a roller coaster and everyone that surrounds you is on it too.  

Now I'm not saying that medication is the right/only answer, but it sure can help if you are willing to put in the time it takes to find a combination of medicines that work for you.  That process alone can be difficult and requires perseverance, especially if you are like my mother and have a higher tolerance to medicine than the average person.  It's also ongoing because our bodies change and what used to work may no longer work.  

I thank God for medicine because without it my mother would be in the mental ward right now and she'd be stuck there the rest of her life.  So in that sense, I wouldn't have a mother at all.  I know it feels that way already when she is having an episode.

So I hope in future if you feel like the highs are too high and the lows are too low that you would be willing to consider medicine again to help with that.  They're making amazing strides in science and medicine all the time.  They may have something now or the near future that will be more effective with your chemical makeup.    

[neriana]

Many, many people need medication for their psychological problems the way someone with diabetes needs insulin. I'm not sure it's that medicine is overprescribed as much as that therapy is WAY underprescribed.

I know people who would be dead right now if not for Prozac or Zoloft or whatever. Without therapy, but with just the pills, they'd still be sort of struggling hazily through life. The pills are a patch, therapy (cognitive is what works) teaches you to reshape and rethink yourself and your life in a way that allows you to stop fucking over yourself and the people around you. People with mental health problems often can't think about the problems they cause for others, but they can be severe. Living with someone who has an untreated mental illness is not fun. When that person is your parent, it can be a fucking nightmare. When that parent chooses to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs, guess what, they've just given you your very own set of issues on a nice little checklist, and you get to deal with those issues for the rest of your life. I know because I've finally gotten to the point where I'm mad as hell about it, rather than making excuses for the person who put me through it.

I've also been through depression. I didn't think I could do anything right, and I was completely correct, because depression was taking everything away from me. I chose not to take medication because I was never in an emergency situation, but therapy worked. It does work. I understand the pull of depression, it's a safety blanket, a comfortable, if miserable, place that protects you from life. But it's a false savior.

[missangelica]

Many, many people need medication for their psychological problems the way someone with diabetes needs insulin. I'm not sure it's that medicine is overprescribed as much as that therapy is WAY underprescribed.

I know people who would be dead right now if not for Prozac or Zoloft or whatever. Without therapy, but with just the pills, they'd still be sort of struggling hazily through life. The pills are a patch, therapy (cognitive is what works) teaches you to reshape and rethink yourself and your life in a way that allows you to stop fucking over yourself and the people around you. People with mental health problems often can't think about the problems they cause for others, but they can be severe. Living with someone who has an untreated mental illness is not fun. When that person is your parent, it can be a fucking nightmare. When that parent chooses to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs, guess what, they've just given you your very own set of issues on a nice little checklist, and you get to deal with those issues for the rest of your life. I know because I've finally gotten to the point where I'm mad as hell about it, rather than making excuses for the person who put me through it.

I've also been through depression. I didn't think I could do anything right, and I was completely correct, because depression was taking everything away from me. I chose not to take medication because I was never in an emergency situation, but therapy worked. It does work. I understand the pull of depression, it's a safety blanket, a comfortable, if miserable, place that protects you from life. But it's a false savior.

I definitely agree that therapy is great, but only if you are in a place where you are ready to confront what is really going on and want to try to change it.  My mother wasn't and so she either got therapists that would baby her and tell her, "Oh, you had a very hard life," and nothing got done or she got therapists that were aggressive and would try to get her to see things differently and so she would stop going.

[paperbeth]

I think finding the right therapist is just as important as finding the right meds. Different people respond differently to both these things. I went through years of trying to find the right meds that work for me, and the right dosage too. I spent just as much time trying to find the right therapist. Someone who listens and responds without judging me or making me feel like a mental defect. Not someone who sits there while I talk and only asks "how does that make you feel?", then charges me $150.

[millahnna]

I think finding the right therapist is just as important as finding the right meds.

I'd say it's more important.  The wrong therapist is how you end up on meds when you shouldn't be, or on too many, or on not enough, or the wrong combination or whatever.  I don't mean to say that there isn't inherently some trial and error for many (most?) on the medication specifically but without the right therapy you end up with all kinds of extra problems.  I mean what if hypothetical you has the deadened emotional reaction and quits taking them but really should be on them?  Or what if the deadened reaction is more because the meds really were not to solution for that particular patient and now they're whacking out their brain chemistry even more (hypothetically again, I have no idea if there's any science to back that idea up).

It's not like they test our already existent chemicals before they prescribe this stuff.  Getting the right therapist is critical.  Sigh.  I miss medical coverage.

[CatOfWar]

Have to agree about the importance of therapy (in combination with meds, when necessary).  Therapy is what finally got me to see that my self-defeating thoughts were irrational and harmful.  I still have a long way to go there.  It's not enough to learn better ways of thinking and seeing the world, those thoughts have to be translated into action, and that's what's hard for me right now.  I need therapists who will push me to change for the better, but without triggering my stupid neuroses.  Medicine is what made my life much more bearable.  I need to find the will and courage to change.  I used to have horrid anxiety attacks with heart palpitations.  There is a history of anxiety induced heart attack in my family, so I am really grateful to not have those anymore.  Medicine has also stabilized my mood somewhat and really helped me sleep better.  I am fortunate in that I have not had any adverse reactions such as loss of creativity.  For me, creativity increases when I am not paralyzed by anxiety.  

To all those of you who have had bad reactions to medicine or bad therapists, I hope you will find whatever you need to help you, without losing yourself, your creativity, or your emotions.  Anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, they can all suck beyond the telling of it, so for what it's worth, my heart goes out to you.

edit: millanha, I have had doctors tell me they *could* tell me for sure whether they are using the right meds, and what my brain is or isn't doing, but they would have to cut my brain out first.  So they have to use trial and error and we judge meds by how I react to them, and how I am when on them.  It took a while to find the right ones for me.