TSR: IN UR COMPUTER, VIRUSIN' UR FILES!

[SamanthaS]

Well it's about time we got a Sim Secret. Those GOS bitches were hogging all the attention. 

The whining and back patting going on anonymously in the comments is hilarious. How ROGUE you are, anonymice.

[Missbonbon]

Everyone is People are taking this secret thing so seriously.  Why?  

Meh, if my post came across that way, it wasn't intended to. I meant my post to more along the lines of if you have issues, bring them here, not there.

To the anon, this will be the last I'm responding to you, because like I said, if you want to be taken seriously, then come here. Knowing who you are does not create any burden for me or you. It gives a face to "debate" with. Do we know your a long time member? Are you a long time member in good standing? Are you a long time member who is just butthurt? Do we know if your just a lurker? There have been tons of complaints from lurkers on other websites. But that's just it, they are lurkers. If they don't contribute to the forum/booty in some way how are supposed to take them seriously? If I open a business, and sell ice cream, how am I supposed to take advice from the guy selling pancakes? PMBD wasn't meant to be a fun filled community forum, or at least it wasn't in my eyes. It was meant to open the eyes of the community as to what they are paying for, and expose those dirty paysites of what they actually do behind the scenes with your money or your information. I read your replies, and how do I know that those multiple anon replies aren't just you? How do we know they are separate entities sharing a like mind? We don't. As far as I'm concerned, until I see any proof otherwise, I am just going to assume that it was mostly you. Actually, a good bit of them are from you because you just kept replying to yourself responding to comments made here.

Which to say the least, is kind of pathetic. You want to call Snarky selfish in his ways, yet you can't even do it under your own name? At least give him a name to make funny remarks back to. Just so the anon knows, no I'm not being buried in drama. This is my opinion. If I didn't agree with the general forum mentality of "meh" on the secret, I would say so. Unfortunately for you, it's easier for you to just dismiss me as drinking the kool-aid than it is to actually listen.

Until I see a complaint from a forum member, under a name, I just say meh. If we changed the forum for every last "anon" person who complained about PMBD, we would no longer be PMBD.

[dietofworms]

Until I see a complaint from a forum member, under a name, I just say meh. If we changed the forum for every last "anon" person who complained about PMBD, we would no longer be PMBD.

OK, I'll bite.

I've raised this issue many times before now.  The way some members treat other people who are actually on our side is BOUND to turn some people off.  Same deal only more so with respect to the treatment of people who are only tentatively or not at all on our side.  Disapproval or disagreement too often ends up as character assassination.  The invective is disproportionate and ugly. Not everyone here does that, of course, but a few do it to extremes. I'm expecting responses that shrug and say, "Why should I care?" Fine, don't care, but don't expect to win friends and influence people.

I've noticed that some of the strongest advocates against TSR have left the forum--or at least they're not posting anymore. That's a loss, and probably could have been prevented with a little tact.

ETA:  for the record, neither the secret nor any of the comments is mine.

[Pescado]

Research has already found that debate is a completely ineffective tool for changing anyone's opinions. Placing two people of opposing views in a debate against each other only results in them both becoming more hard-line. In short, talk is completely ineffective at changing anyone's views.

[CatOfWar]

Research has already found that debate is a completely ineffective tool for changing anyone's opinions.

Citations?  References?

If the opposing views are based purely on subjective opinion, then debate may not accomplish anything.  If the difference of opinion is due to lack of knowledge, and the listener is willing to consider new data and admit they were mistaken, debate can be useful. 

[neriana]

I've raised this issue many times before now.  The way some members treat other people who are actually on our side is BOUND to turn some people off.  

Times, places, names and quotes please. Formless accusations are just that.

And frankly, if people can't handle being disagreed with about anything at all -- which I've seen plenty of times on this forum and others -- and therefore go off in a huff, my response is going to be to shrug my shoulders and not care. Life is far too short to spend coddling people who can't find their big girl panties. It's also too short for people who think that a few people who are "mean" to them are worse than criminals, and therefore go and side with the criminals.

I've read the study to which Pescado's referring. It has definite merit, but iirc it was one of those "throw undergraduate psychology students in a room and see what happens when X" studies, which while they are interesting starting points for more in-depth studies, need to be taken with a grain of salt.

By the way: the phorum used to be significantly "meaner". It lost a lot of members when people started whining about the "mean" people. Sunshine and huggles is not what the site is about, and if you want that, you're in the wrong place. It's an advocacy site which advocates destroying something we find utterly reprehensible. It's not going to be "nice"!

[SnarkyShark]

OK, I'll bite.

I wouldn't bite too hard, dietofworms. -   There's the very real possibility we're being played. The secret's author could easily be a paysite pawn sent to drudge up anti-PMBD sentiment, a deranged phorum troll from any part of Pescado World, or just some run-of-the-mill coward who washed out of here at some point and can't get past it. Missbonbon even went of her way to accommodate them by offering to talk privately and was rebuffed because one the (apparently many) things they are afraid of is possible retaliation from TSR. You know, something we're attempting to prevent from happening to anyone else?  

Having someone come here and rationally debate the issue is one thing. Responding to one or more people who are anonymously flinging shit from another site is something else entirely.  

Life is far too short to spend coddling people who can't find their big girl panties. It's also too short for people who think that a few people who are "mean" to them are worse than criminals, and therefore go and side with the criminals.

Couldn't agree more.

[Pescado]

Citations?  References?

I don't keep track of this stuff. But clearly, even Neriana the Souper knows of it.

If the opposing views are based purely on subjective opinion, then debate may not accomplish anything.  If the difference of opinion is due to lack of knowledge, and the listener is willing to consider new data and admit they were mistaken, debate can be useful.

This is the absence of an actual position. However, as you can see, the information is readily available, and at this point any positions that remain are essentially religious.

The fact of the matter is that this study meshes with everything we already know from everyday life. It should be readily obvious that the only thing that has ever convinced anyone to do anything is violence.

[paperbeth]

I just want to take this opportunity to say that I, for one, appreciate the fact that PMBD is not one of those forums where everyone is so nice and sweet that it causes diabetes. I thrive on intelligent discussion.
The people here may not be all smilies and rainbows, but I like it that way. I feel that people who over-use niceties are often very fake, and they will turn on you without warning simply because you didn't live up to their level of fake niceness.
The people here are intelligent and even when they don't agree with each other, the disagreement is usually respectful and purposeful. I can't say enough how refreshing that is.

Also, in response to the claim that PMBD doesn't notify other companies of TSR's wrongdoings, several Disney execs will be receiving a well-stated letter, with links and screenshots of many of the copyright infringements being perpetrated at TSR.
I would post a copy of the letter, but I think it's better not to divulge the contents of it publicly, because I don't want TSR to know which crimes they need to cover up.

If you can't reason with a bully and you can't physically take him in a fight, then get a bigger bully to beat the shit out of him.

[kenmtl]

It should be readily obvious that the only thing that has ever convinced anyone to do anything is violence.

I disagree. Cash money is by far the more effective way to get people to shut up and/or do what they're told. Plus they can then use it to buy guns thus silencing the few inconvenients who can't bought.

[dietofworms]

I've raised this issue many times before now.  The way some members treat other people who are actually on our side is BOUND to turn some people off.  

Times, places, names and quotes please. Formless accusations are just that.

And frankly, if people can't handle being disagreed with about anything at all -- which I've seen plenty of times on this forum and others -- and therefore go off in a huff, my response is going to be to shrug my shoulders and not care. Life is far too short to spend coddling people who can't find their big girl panties. It's also too short for people who think that a few people who are "mean" to them are worse than criminals, and therefore go and side with the criminals.

I'm not inclined to go digging through hundreds of threads to present you with evidence when it's all around you.  Like in the thread below this one.

Also, every time I bring this up, I get responses that completely misstate my point.  I'm not saying that we can't disagree with one another.  I'm not saying that we need fucking unicorns and faeries. I am saying that we don't always present ourselves in a manner that deserves being taken seriously.

Yeah, of course the secret could be TSR baiting us.  But it could also be a genuine response, and my guess is the latter.  I've spent time in other forums where people talk about how nasty it is here.  To be sure, compared to MATY, it's Disneyland. But I think we can be a little more sensitive about how we talk, especially to one another.

[Missbonbon]

I think what your going for diet, is to be civil, yes? If that's the case, I agree to an extent. There's a big difference between disagreeing, and then calling someone a fuckwit and telling them to run back to their mommies with nothing else brought to the table. With that said though, the only reason I can see for trying to improve upon that front would be to give the appearance of a united front. A kind of "we stand together on this issue."

But on the other side of the coin, I think how people express themselves here is what makes PMBD so special. I may hate so and so, but I can come together with them on a united effort. No matter how Joe may hate Billy, they agree that they hate paysites even more. I do think that most people don't see it the way I do though.  The atmosphere here has calmed down from what was in the past. And I never thought I would say this, but if we "lighten" up anymore there is a good possibility that the entire cause/purpose of PMBD could be lost forever.

One of the anon's mentioned specifically easing up to make it easier to allow 13's12's. I am totally against that. I do not want some little kid in here whining about how hard school is, and how much of a bitch their parents are because they won't let them stay up past 12. I like the mature conversations, that can slum down into "childish" talk for the purpose of jokes. I like the fact that we don't have to label things not appropriate for minors. I like the fact that if there are 12's here, they can at least act responsible and mature enough to read their posts to make sure they don't sound stupid, and present themselves in a mature manner. There are plenty of other websites that oppose file sharing, with plenty of other members that oppose file sharing, that the 12's can go to.

The only downside I see to not allowing them here, is they miss out on a lot of first hand information. But nothing in stopping them from informing themselves. They can read all they want, just if your going to act like an idiot, then don't post.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't understand. I don't get why PMBD has to be the only forum dedicated to stopping paysites, and why we have to allow everyone and their mother here. Could someone not create their own version of PMBD, that has softer rules? A PMBD Jr. if you will. I doubt Pes will do it himself, but I don't see any reason as to why we/they couldn't mull over options for free hosting, to make a free board, for those that find PMBD to harsh.

[Pescado]

Isn't that what Simscave is for? A sharingland of happyfunpeople? And Soup?

[missymoo]

Being pretty new to this site I figured I may as well give my 2 cents worth on the issue at hand. I'm a lurker, I tend to show up as a 'guest' on a few forum sites and only pop up as a member if, for one the site doesn't seem to be run by total asshats, and for two the people posting seem to be genuine.

I don't care too much for whatever seems to be going on on the other forum, anon posts are pointless attempts to shit-stir and so they are to be ignored 99.9% of the time, unless they are helpful and/or vaguely sensible, though the one in question seems to be a member of the overwhelming majority. Compared to sites like MATY this forum is much calmer and much more open, where people with strong views come together there are bound to be disagreements but members are all here for the same reason. Paysites are pointless, people are wasting good money on tat, and the action of selling these things is fundamentally illegal. There are forums that encourage the sharing of paysite files, of hard to find items e.t.c, a good example would be simscave, polite, non-invasive, and undermining paysites everywhere with their file sharing. I suggest if anyone does not like the way things are done here they can always hop over to one of the 'PMBD-lite' forums and try their luck there, though I don't wish to be offhand about anyone's concerns, in my experience at least, they don't seem well founded.

*slopes off to lurk some more*

[redraw]

I personally don't find this site to be too harsh.  Even when it comes to those that break the rules in the FAQ and try to use ignorance to get out of trouble.  I've learned on my dealings online to own up to your own mistakes.

I also personally think that the person that posted the cryfest about the phorum on a different site was probably one of the requesters that we had post in Sharkbait and decided to go BAWWWW on a different site.