TSR: IN UR COMPUTER, VIRUSIN' UR FILES!

[kenmtl]

*ahem*

Pes, if you want to remain credible, you have to provide ways to the Averages Joes.

You have noticed I said Securom has virus behaviour, but not calling them a virus? there is a difference, learn it. Anyway I would be surprised if anyone besides Pescado is able to understand this stuff. Good luck

[Paden]

Kath, Blade, I will say this once: Lay down with fucking dogs and you'll get fleas. Good luck working with those fucks, you'll bloody well need it. Remember when I said that associating with certain people can tar you with the same reputation? It works both ways, kindly keep that in mind. *firmly turns back on that discussion*

[Saraswati]

Hi Paden

For myself, I'm a happy free creator who won't charge for her stuff and who doesn't upload to TSR-this is something different and seperate.

All we've done is just worked with the facts of the tool, pure and simple. Which has allowed us the chance to work with them and ensure the tool isn't damaging in any way. Which is more in the interests of the guys who DO use the tool than yelling at them and achieves more. We're independent of any other site and impartial of any political issues, same as always. We can't magic a virus like reaction in the new version of the tool if it isn't there-we can only tell you what we've found after a lot of technical investigation. If we were pretending there's an issue with the tool itself when there's not, that's shady behaviour.

It's the same as we've been working with a couple of different DRM developer on and off for a few months now to make their programs more user friendly. When it comes to technical issues, we're primarily interested in an end result which is in the interests of the majority of people.

Kathleen

[Missbonbon]

That doesn´t mean IT professionals will laugh at PMBD if they test the tool and see NO SPYWARE is inside the TSR tool.

uhm, YOU were the one running around the internetz with your arms flailing -

ISSUE CONFIRMED. MALWARE BEHAVIOUR CONFIRMED

 - but you're telling us that WE'RE the ones who are going to be laughed at? And regardless, the fact remains that TSR is an EXTREMELY shady outfit. Anyone who trusts them enough to install a program they devise may be putting their machine and their personal information at risk.

You do first learn the different between those words, then you would realize the stupidity of your comments:

Malware behaviour= Malware. Virus Behaviour=Virus.

You have noticed I said Securom has virus behaviour, but not calling them a virus? there is a difference, learn it. Anyway I would be surprised if anyone besides Pescado is able to understand this stuff. Good luck

It's amazing that you keep coming on over here to call the members "stupid" and making comments about how "Pescado would be the only one to understand," yet you keep coming back? What does that say about you? Need I remind you that your are the same person who tried to argue that the booty is illegal, and you even created a sock puppet account to agree with yourself. YET we are the stupid ones.  Really grow up.

[MrsBulldog]

The "back-burnering" is not malicious, or even intentional. The problem is that all the developers of these tools only own and work with Windows machines. Most of them (myself included) don't even own a Mac. That means that we can't test anything we build on a Mac platform.

This is exactly right, and we strike this in a different form on RYG/Prism a fair bit.. we get people coming our way who use Macs who aren't happy that we don't have Mac removal instructions. The problem is none of the staff own Macs, so how can we program for them or set up troubleshooting instructions? We did however communicate that need directly with someone at Sony DADC and they were apparently going to set up some instructions.

When it comes to the tool.. Thomas and Johan have actually been very happy to work with the staff over at RYG/Prism to try to nail down the things that aren't working. And it's borne some fruit, anything that people can specifically find wrong with that tool has now apparently been very quickly fixed. It's important to split up the things that TSR does from the things that we're just suspicious of.. And if the tool is now ok, it comes back purely to personal preference whether people want to use that tool or prefer to use Delphy's. *shrug*

Never said it was malicious or intentional. Perhaps "back-burnering" is a poor choice of words, but when you're a mac user wanting to be more involved in the cc community, it feels that way. I wouldn't expect someone with a PC to run out and get a mac just to covert their utilities any more than I'd expect a mac user (such as myself) to buy a PC for cc-making purposes. I'm more astounded that there aren't more existing mac programmers/creators jumping in with mac versions of stuff, especially considering the gain in Apple's popularity. There's a few people putting mac stuff out, yes, but I'm surprised there's not more. It's an "it is what it is" situation, but it's still a bummer.

Maybe I'm stupid and this is off topic, but could someone please explain to me, why do people still choose Mac machines, while they know, that in many areas, specific programs for their platform either don't exist either their level barely gets through beta-testing, they're glitchy, awkward and whatever HeyBubbe described them as. It's not only The Sims and tools for them, but many other programs from different categories. So please, humor me, and tell me why people buy Macs, while they can have a good, old, PC running on Billy Gates' Windows, which can be a pain is the ass at times, bu on which 99,999% of stuff works. In what way are they better? Because from a person's that ain't an informatic view, it's just like willing putting a ball and a chain on your leg, that closes some horizons.

BLLLEEEAAAGH!! Sorry, Lady Vader, it's an involuntary response to this age-old debate. LOL. And I'm sorry for getting off topic too, but I'll be brief.

The "they're glitchy, awkward" was in reference to the sims3 programs created for mac, not mac themselves. I find macs to be elegant, very user-friendly, safe, and reliable. But despite being a mac advocate, there are advantages and disadvantages to each kind of platform. I'm an artist, and my husband is a film maker. Therefore, the mac platform is better equipped for our particular artistic needs and preferences. We've done our work on PCs and found them to be laggy, hangy, and slow. And being that we use internet resources for much of my art, we can download without fear of getting any viruses (which is VERY important because I need my system to be spyware free due the confidentiality of some of my work). However, as video game players, the mac falls WAY short. I played Sims on PC and it's just a smoother better gaming experience. Macs also falls short in terms of affordability. They're freakin' expensive, man. I'm sure I could make a whole list of pro and con differences for both platforms, but I said I'd keep this short. So... yeah.... I prefer macs due to my work, but if I could afford a gaming PC, I'd get one.

Okay, sorry for the digression. But in the spirit of the topic: I'm opposed to the suspicion of TSR putting malware crap in their stuffs out of sheer principle, and in defense of other people having to deal with it. It doesn't actually effect me at all because I'm on a mac. Same with the Secu-Rom thing someone mentioned earlier. I could just say "neener neener neener" and ignore this thread. But  that's oppositional to my sense of social justice.

EDITED: I saw I double posted, so I edited the two posts together. Sorry 'bout that.

[Saraswati]

Hi HeyBubbe

What we need in order to have Mac instructions for SecuROM is to have Mac people join RYG and help us put them together-if you're prepared to help us, that'd be lovely. It seriously bothers us that we've got nothing for the folks with Macs, but if we can get a couple of you guys to get involved and help us, I'm sure the issue can be resolved.

Kath

[Paden]

Thing is, you helped them to make a tool which they are going to use to make PAY content, and you damn well know they are going to use it for that. That is where my problem lies. That and the fact that they are scum without a shred of ethic or moral yet feel free to use the talent of those that have those in order to line their pockets even more. You KNOW what they've done and that they deserve nothing more to be hanged for it, yet... gah. I'm not going to bother.

[Saraswati]

Paden, I don't agree with you. The tool itself is totally free and if it's safe and TSR isn't claiming any ownership over the stuffs you make with it, it just comes down to personal preference whether someone wants to use it or not. The majority of the free community will always use Delphy's tool, the TSR creators will likely use their tool. It's better that the folks who use the TSR tool have a safe tool to work with. Pescado and Inge have both said "tools are just tools" and personally I agree with them.

[ValancySterling]

Paden, I don't agree with you. The tool itself is totally free and if it's safe and TSR isn't claiming any ownership over the stuffs you make with it, it just comes down to personal preference whether someone wants to use it or not. The majority of the free community will always use Delphy's tool, the TSR creators will likely use their tool. It's better that the folks who use the TSR tool have a safe tool to work with. Pescado and Inge have both said "tools are just tools" and personally I agree with them.

I get your argument, but I think I get Paden's tool.  One argument against paysites (besides the EULA) was that they were making money off of the worker free creators by using tools made by free creators.  With the Sims3, we've already seen people outraged at Rose and Peggy for making stuff using Wes's and Delphy's tools because those tools specifically say they are for free content/file share friendly.  TSR avoids that by having their own tool--which will not be file share friendly.  Which means, PMBD will look bad by including TSR creations made with their tool because we aren't respecting their TOU while making such a fuss over people violating Wes's and Delphy's TOU.  Yes, they are allowing their tool to be used for free content, but it is almost certain that it will also be used to make pay content for their own site.  They may honestly be concerned about Mac users (which is good), but they also may just be using RYG to make themselves seem more community friendly too.  There's been some evidence in the way they've treated Delphy, Inge, and the other free creators who helped them develop the tool that this is more about PR than actually being better people.  I was ready to give TSR the benefit of the doubt but I did get a virus from their site when I downloaded their tool (from an ad, not from the tool itself as far as I can tell).  That's an old issue that's happend to plenty of people before me and if they can't be bothered to do something about that, I highly doubt they can be bothered about a lot of the other stuff their accused of either.

[Craftingmomma]

Prism is not endorsing the tool, only ensuring that is free of any nastiness.  The methods used were very scientific and able to be reproduced.   Any claims about problems  should be able to be reproduced through testing and the scientific method accomplishes that.

There will be many who will use it, just because at this point it is easier to use then Delphy's.  Oh yeah, I know what will be posted...."they deserve to be infected if they use it"...they deserve to be hacked"...etc.  To me that is just plain mean and only lowers the person saying it to TSR's level.  Why would you wish that on those who may not know better?   I know because "TSR is thez ebilz" and anyone silly enough or gullible enough to use it is evil by association.

TSR has a shoddy reputation and personally I wouldn't download anything from there except for testing purposes, but personal feelings are shelved when testing for problems with modding tools or DRM's.  Prism is an educational place that many turn to for information and will always be neutral on issues. Prism is a not sims site and never will be.  Therefore we won't be dragged into many of the debates that have split the sims community.

To be fair to both sides Delphy's tool was tested also and came up clean all the way around.

So flame away, I need some laughs today.  Doubt you can do better then someone else.  

[Paden]

PRISM was FORMED by people from the Sims 2 FREE community. I remember. I was there. The other gaming communities didn't come in for some time. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that's the way it was.

[SnarkyShark]

something that made sense to himself, I'm sure

OK, again, it was YOU - Nightmare - not me - SnarkyShark - who was going to other forums (at least two that I know of) and warning members about the "MALWARE BEHAVIOUR"  of the TSR tool. Then it was YOU - Nightmare - who switched gears a day later and stated that there was nothing to worry about. Meanwhile, OUR position has stayed the same: TSR is a shitty site that has done NOTHING for the community except use it to line their pockets and has caused nothing but trouble while they're doing it.  

Which means - are you keeping up? - it will be YOU - Nightmare (aka NOTICE MEEZ!!!)  - who will loose credibility. Not us. So suck it, bite it, lick it and then PISS OFF.  

Paden, I don't agree with you. The tool itself is totally free and if it's safe and TSR isn't claiming any ownership over the stuffs you make with it, it just comes down to personal preference whether someone wants to use it or not.

But it's not really free, Saraswati. TSR has done some very shitty things to INNOCENT people in the past and, no doubt, continues to do so. Lending an organization like that any sort of credibility is costing all of us in the long run.

[Paden]

And helping a site that has terrorized free sites does not a DAMN thing to make points for you in this community at ALL. Sites where eleven year old children could have seen that shit! HOW do you justify that?

[Lady Vader]

Ok, here's my two cents into this debate.

I agree on a 100% with Paden on the term, that those bloody shits at TSR don't deserve help in anything, more to it, we should've thrown logs under their legs in the development-run of the tool. Modders of the free community said they didn't really bring anything in exchange, just pretty much sucked out info. I really won't bloody cry, if one day they happen to cross some experienced hacker with a short fused temper, that will change their whole shitty money-cow into a pile of dust. I may not approve the practice, but I really won't bloody cry in their case.

However, there is a "but" in this. The only reason I don't critisize the PRISM people for doing something for the development of that tool, is because that way someone was actually supervising TSR from putting loads of shit, malware, spyware, viruses and whatnot into it. Of course, the ones that stand on TSR's side, while being absolutely aware of their practices, deserve to get burned - you might call that lowering to their level, however, I would simply call it life's justice. Unfortunately, along with them, a lot of innocent people could get burned. People fresh in The Sims community, unnaware of TSR's dealings, people that just bought the game, because they saw an ad on TV and they liked it and saw a link to TSR on EA's site and went there. What did they do to deserve being infected with malicious shit? Be trusting of a major game developing company? Especially that not all companies treat a customer the way EA does? And those people really don't follow all the twists in the story, they're just gamers, playing for casual fun. That doesn't make you deserve getting burned. And for the sake of those unnaware of the situation people, I'm glad someone kept an eye on TSR while making that tool. Not nessecarily that they helped them, but that they kept an eye on them from putting malicious shit in it.

[Paden]

And now that the tool is made, they can slip in whatever the fuck they want, at least until the watchdog bites them in the ass again? I still call bullshit. I realize that it's a case of keeping the enemy close to hand, but it's also rewarding shit actions. People got their security compromised and those motherfuckers get patted on the head and their tool fixed for use. Where is the justice for those already hurt?