Ea makes statement March 2 making paysites ok?

[Moune]

The single reason why that bed is there, is because we don't make exceptions. Not because we don't appreciate everything he has done for the community. That is all. It's not personal.

I understand that. I still think it's wrong.

Also, this has been discussed alot already in the past, am I right? I thought we came to that conclusion.

Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, a conclusion was reached. I don't agree with that conclusion, though, and will say so when the subject comes up.

As a matter of fact I think it was a really bad strategic mistake to alienate Numenor from the anti-paysite movement. But that's an entirely different discussion.

[Missbonbon]

A couple of things:

First: It’s been mentioned a couple of times in this thread that the creators of SimPE (Quaxi, RGiles with the help of ... Numenor among others, but we’ll get back to that) have stated that you cannot charge for stuff made with SimPE. I’d like those who said that to post a link to where they have this information from. Because as far as I know there was ever such a statement made. It is certainly nowhere to be found on the SimPE homepage.

What is true, of course, is that the creators of SimPE made the tool all for free, update it when needed all for free, provide support for it all for free, and maintain the all-essential GUID database all for free – like mentioned in BlueSoups BBS Post. But that is an entirely different matter.

It did say it because I had quoted it in a thread laying around here somewhere. If you look at Numenor's CEP page though it was edited in April 2008 so they could have changed their wording. I also had quoted the EULA of any program they could use to create anything for the sims and in every last one of the EULA's it was stated that you can't sell any product made using that software.

Second: You know, if there was ever somebody in the Sims community who should be allowed to hold a grudge over a small thing, it would be Numenor. He has not only been essential in the development of crucial modding tools, he has also at all times been one of the most helpful people over at MTS2 – you know, where the rest of us so-called creators go when we can’t figure out how to make whatever we’re trying to make. There are not a whole lot of other people who has put such an effort into the Sims community as Numenor. I’d say we’re talking about a max of two handfuls.

And personally I can quite understand why he’s peeved about that one item of his ending up in The Booty. I think it’s out of order too, which I’ve said before. So, uknortherner, if you think Numenor is a class A fuckwit for making that comment, I think you’re an even bigger class A fuckwit who needs to get things into perspective.

I wouldn't care if fucking Jesus Christ himself came down from the heavens to complain about the pirates. Beos comment was wrong. The whole Numenor grudge thing was what? One year, two years ago? Maybe more? Shouldn't he be a little more adult about the situation and get the fuck over it? How would you react if say, oh I don't know, Inge made that comment? Would you still agree she had a right to hold a grudge for so long?

Which brings me to a completely off topic point. I'm tired of the fact that because someone is free they are fucking gods. Yes let's give praise that they are free and fan girl over their creations. We don't have to eat their shit along with it.

I don't think Numenor has any right to hold any grudge. He could have done the exact same that Ren has done and told people where to get it. He even says on his fucking web page if you can't make a donation mail him and he would send you the item. What is the damn difference between that and the booty? Oh because he gets to chose who gets his item? Sound familiar?  

The single reason why that bed is there, is because we don't make exceptions. Not because we don't appreciate everything he has done for the community. That is all. It's not personal.
Also, this has been discussed alot already in the past, am I right? I thought we came to that conclusion. (Or at least that we'd agree to disagree, but the file would be in the booty.)

Yes it was. Out of boredom I was reading the thread the other day. It was pretty much agreed that by putting that item into the booty we would lose a lot of community support. Which we did. But we did it anyways because we weren't going to make exceptions because if Numenor's object was going to be excluded, what would stop people from bitching about sites like XM Sims, and Rensim.

[Eskimo Pie]

 I guess EA enjoys watching it's Sim's community tear each other apart. This "statement" is  way over due by a couple of years.

I am done with EA, not only have they ruined the Sims for me but another favorite past time of mine Pogo.com ( yes I am a pogo addict lol) There is fighting over there all the time too since they took over and they do nothing about it there either.

[Devilfish]

Second: You know, if there was ever somebody in the Sims community who should be allowed to hold a grudge over a small thing, it would be Numenor. He has not only been essential in the development of crucial modding tools, he has also at all times been one of the most helpful people over at MTS2 – you know, where the rest of us so-called creators go when we can’t figure out how to make whatever we’re trying to make. There are not a whole lot of other people who has put such an effort into the Sims community as Numenor. I’d say we’re talking about a max of two handfuls.

What kind of sick logic is that? You mean that being a profilic and talented modder has bought him the right to be a petty child? I'll never deny that he has done amazing things for this community and modding for the game, but nothing should be able to buy you the right to throw temper tantrums and insult people. I respect Pes for what he's done too, but if he'd try to say that kind of thing to my face he'd get such a slap. Then he'd take my eyes out with his tumb in 0.2 seconds, but that' beside the point.

I always thought it was a shame his one item ended up here, but a bigger man would have said "Right, fuck it, I can get over it if it serves a bigger purpose". Many of us would have done just that. I can understand why it's here and it should be here, even though it feels wrong. But to say that his e-peen buys him the right to be an abusive asshole is beyond daft.

Also no surprise, Beoxb... that guy's blog has comment moderation. I made a very polite remark but I doubt it'll ever see the light of day.

[dusdeedawn]

It did come into the discussion, Nouk. I read it loud and clear.
And like Nouk said, it's not personal. If we start pick and choose, then it becomes personal.

You know, if there was ever somebody in the Sims community who should be allowed to hold a grudge over a small thing, it would be Numenor.

Well, why not hold it against all the people that have raking it in off of his creations? The phrase "Pick your fights" comes to mind. I think he picked an odd fight. His stuff's been used over and over by people profiting off of it, but he only gets upset at 'the pirates'. All of us? Really? How many of us had direct involvement in his item being in the booty? *scans crowd for raised hands* Not all, that's how many. But, hey, whatever, if we all get cancer, he'll be right up there with Beosboxboy celebrating. Well, Numenor or no, he had a donation item, it went in the booty. Years later, TSR (and plenty others) have made a killing off his items (or built a second house), and he's still on about a bed.

[Darqstar]

Also no surprise, Beoxb... that guy's blog has comment moderation. I made a very polite remark but I doubt it'll ever see the light of day.

You could post it here for all of us to admire. 

[Devilfish]

Also no surprise, Beoxb... that guy's blog has comment moderation. I made a very polite remark but I doubt it'll ever see the light of day.

You could post it here for all of us to admire. 

Your wish is my command:

Actually, that statement means nothing more than "Please play nice and respect what everyone does with their content". If you make the choice to accept this statement as EA gospel (which most people certainly don't, but you apparently do) and see it as proof that paysites are okay, than it MUST go both ways: the pirates have as much a right to do what they do with .package files as every other person in the community.
You can not have your cake and eat it too.

Okay, not all sugar and rainbows, but a hell of a lot more polite than I felt like being

On a side-note, this is the PMBD I love. Making intelligent arguments, being so goddman activist Che would be proud, all sass and reason. I love it. And I needed it.

[Anouk]

The single reason why that bed is there, is because we don't make exceptions. Not because we don't appreciate everything he has done for the community. That is all. It's not personal.

I understand that. I still think it's wrong.

Also, this has been discussed alot already in the past, am I right? I thought we came to that conclusion.

Yes, it has been discussed, and yes, a conclusion was reached. I don't agree with that conclusion, though, and will say so when the subject comes up.

As a matter of fact I think it was a really bad strategic mistake to alienate Numenor from the anti-paysite movement. But that's an entirely different discussion.

The beauty if this board is, that you are always alllowed to disagree.
Numenor was never for or against paysites, really. The only reason he was angry, is because of his own payfile was in the booty. But, if we had excluded it, what would stop from say, Delphy making some payfiles, Inge making some payfiles, Wes_H making some payfiles (not that they would) and demanding, because of their work for the community, that they'd be allowed to sell something?
It's a case of defenition, not level of appreciation. If money exchanges hands to get the file, it's a payfile. If addition to the booty was dependant on the level of appreciation, it would suddenly become a subjective matter, in the end we'd loose alot more credibility than when we added the tanning bed.

So while I understand your reasoning, and also do not like that the tanning bed is in there, I still disagree with you. That's not a problem though, luckily.

[Moune]

It did say it because I had quoted it in a thread laying around here somewhere. If you look at Numenor's CEP page though it was edited in April 2008 so they could have changed their wording. I also had quoted the EULA of any program they could use to create anything for the sims and in every last one of the EULA's it was stated that you can't sell any product made using that software.

I'm not talking about CEP. I'm talking about SimPE. The one tool you need to have to at least make anything object related for Sims 2. Where does it say that it can't be used for commercial purposes? Below is what you agree to when you download the programme, and there is no mention in there about not making money of it.

I wouldn't care if fucking Jesus Christ himself came down from the heavens to complain about the pirates. Beos comment was wrong. The whole Numenor grudge thing was what? One year, two years ago? Maybe more? Shouldn't he be a little more adult about the situation and get the fuck over it? How would you react if say, oh I don't know, Inge made that comment? Would you still agree she had a right to hold a grudge for so long?

I'm not talking abot Beos. Don't want to have anything to do with the way he chooses to see things. And no, I don't think Numenor just needs to get over it because it has been a while. When somebody pisses on you in real life, do you simply soften up and forgive them after a couple of years? I don't. I might not be angry, but I won't be all niceties, I can assure you. If Inge had made that comment, I think I would have shook my head. But I wouldn't have called her a class A fuckwit.

Which brings me to a completely off topic point. I'm tired of the fact that because someone is free they are fucking gods. Yes let's give praise that they are free and fan girl over their creations. We don't have to eat their shit along with it.

I don't think Numenor has any right to hold any grudge. He could have done the exact same that Ren has done and told people where to get it. He even says on his fucking web page if you can't make a donation mail him and he would send you the item. What is the damn difference between that and the booty? Oh because he gets to chose who gets his item? Sound familiar?  

The single reason why that bed is there, is because we don't make exceptions. Not because we don't appreciate everything he has done for the community. That is all. It's not personal.
Also, this has been discussed alot already in the past, am I right? I thought we came to that conclusion. (Or at least that we'd agree to disagree, but the file would be in the booty.)

Yes it was. Out of boredom I was reading the thread the other day. It was pretty much agreed that by putting that item into the booty we would lose a lot of community support. Which we did. But we did it anyways because we weren't going to make exceptions because if Numenor's object was going to be excluded, what would stop people from bitching about sites like XM Sims, and Rensim.

I know the story. It was before I got the courage to post here, but I've read the discussion. So basically what has happened is this: Pirates piss off Numenor by putting his bed in the Booty. Numenor speak out against pirates because they pissed him off. Pirates berates Numenor for being angry with them. Who's the class A fuckwit here?


(Warning: I'm about to go to bed. Please don't expect any responses before tomorrow).

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[Darqstar]

I wasn't really around much for the tanning bed discussion, either lurking or otherwise.  But, I thought Numerator was willing to give out the tanning bed if you wrote and asked him for it.  Yes, it was a "donation" gift, but it could be obtained for no money, just by asking him to send it to you.

I also saw someone come in here with a gripe about a site that was free, but made members jump through hoops of begging and email and questionaires before you would get any of their stuff.  And while we all agreed that the hoop jumping was difficult, we weren't here to tell free sites how to give away their stuff, we only cared if it was being sold.  

That being said, what is the difference between the tanning bed and a site where items are free, but you have to go through a lot of bother to get to them?  

I know this has already been decided, but had I been here at the time, I don't know if I would have wanted to see it go there or not.  And while I think his reaction is way way over the top, if he really, and truly does give his tanning bed to people for free, just makes it a little harder to get, then I do understand him being upset.

No, I'm not trying to start a fight, really I'm not, I'm just not understanding this.  I don't think he deserves special favors, but I do feel he deserves the same rules as everyone else. If the tanning bed is free, even if he makes you send him a statement signed in your blood, then it's not a pay item.  All he's doing is making it easier for people who donate to get it than for people who don't.  Not much different than MTS2 giving faster servers to their supporters when you think about it.

EDIT: Never mind, not important. 

[uknortherner]

And personally I can quite understand why he’s peeved about that one item of his ending up in The Booty. I think it’s out of order too, which I’ve said before. So, uknortherner, if you think Numenor is a class A fuckwit for making that comment, I think you’re an even bigger class A fuckwit who needs to get things into perspective.

I called Numenor a class A fuckwit because he said nothing - absolutely nothing about BBB's ass-cancer statement whilst publicly applauding him for taking a nasty, bitter swipe at the evil pirates. He IS a class A fuckwit, and if calling him that makes me one too, then I am proud to say I am a class A fuckwit also.

Happy now?

[Anouk]

I know the story. It was before I got the courage to post here, but I've read the discussion. So basically what has happened is this: Pirates piss off Numenor by putting his bed in the Booty. Numenor speak out against pirates because they pissed him off. Pirates berates Numenor for being angry with them. Who's the class A fuckwit here?

Again, it wasn't personal. The pirates simply told Numenor that, why the bed was in the booty, and that his anger was in their opinon, unfounded for this and that reason. It was a discussion. I don't remember anyone telling Numenor "FUCK YOU!!!!!einz" or scilently agreeing that someone should get buttcancer, or any of that jazz.

[Moune]

Real quick, and then I really am off to bed.

uknortherner, do you really expect BBB on his own comment moderated blog to allow Numenor to criticize (which I can't spell) him for making that cancer comment? Come on. Give us a break.

Nouk, I know. When I said 'pirates berate Numenor' I meant now. People are after Numenor NOW because he's angry at the pirates, who made him angry back then by putting his tanning bed in the Booty. (Did that make any more sense?). Sorry didn't make that clear.

[uknortherner]

uknortherner, do you really expect BBB on his own comment moderated blog to allow Numenor to criticize (which I can't spell) him for making that cancer comment? Come on. Give us a break.

Did Numenor really feel the need to post on BBB's blog at all? No, but he did anyway.

[Anouk]

Nouk, I know. When I said 'pirates berate Numenor' I meant now. People are after Numenor NOW because he's angry at the pirates, who made him angry back then by putting his tanning bed in the Booty. (Did that make any more sense?). Sorry didn't make that clear.

Ohhh ok thanks Sleep well!

The problem is I think, that he's angry over something that was not a personal attack on him or on his contribution, or done because of somekind of dislike towards him, and he knows that. He's allowed to be angry, but to some people here it's not logical.
The only opinion I have is that it's shocking that the only reply to someone saying "Let's hope they get colon cancer" is basically "here, here!". I don't think anyone deserves that kind of comment in any kind of way.