TSR Sharing your infomation!

[ValancySterling]

I always feel dumber after reading their posts---as if my brains cells were dying off.

[ooglafina]

I don't want to mock the intelligence of anyone else's posts because I know that as soon as I do I'll pull a stupid of my own. See above example.

I'm guessing their's enough stupid in those posts to supply a stupid colony.

[SnarkyShark]

I'd bet most of them started out as relatively intelligent and ethical people, but then got sucked in to TSR's bottomless Pit of Phail, where they pass the day reinforcing one another.

I doubt that, dietofworms.  I've seen little but arrogance, greed, stupidity and an unwavering commitment to distort the truth in order to justify their own shady and illegal activities from most of the contributors to that thread. That's probably why many of them joined and feel so at home there. Tards of a featherbrain, you know? But I do completely agree with you that they spend an inordinate amount of time jacking each other off.

[Darqstar]

As far as I can see, you tomato, Land Lubber (although I'm not quite sure if I've come across them before - but I take their apology with good grace  ) sherrie, aikea, Black Dwarf, gelydh and many others, all take ownership in what they did, have apologised where need be and have been accepted.   

I do own up to what I did, although in all honesty, I hurt myself more than anyone else.  (I gave them personal information about me, because I paid by credit card.  I have nightmares that TSR will publish this information because I have shown sympathy to pirates, or because they have a bug up their asses)  The arguments I had, supporting paysite were never major, they were mostly discussions between myself and other people.  That being said, in certain situations, I never had a problem accusing pirates of having twisted logic. 

If I have to be honest, the money isn't nearly this issue to me as what people will do to protect what they think is their money. I thought that since EA was taking the attitude of "Police yourselves" that TSR was going to gripe (that's all, just gripe) Pirates would steal, and neither side would win or lose.  I never thought the issue was so serious that TSR and other paysite owners would stoop to this level, that they would give out sensitive information about people with no justified reason.

I have to say that I am very pissed off at myself.  Yes, Thomas manipulated me.  But I allowed him to do that.  I was not ready to leave TSR at the time and as far as I knew Thomas was telling me the truth.  But I did not insist on seeing it in writing, either.  I ended up looking like just as much of a schmuck as they did and it put my reputation and my credibility on the line.  I have a horrible habit of staying in a bad situation far longer than I should.  I could really kick myself.

You are being too hard on yourself.  I can see not liking what you did, but don't be pissed off at yourself, it won't accomplish anything.  And let's face it, I think everyone over the age of 16 has had a situation where they enjoyed being part of a group of people so much that they were willing to do just about anything to stay a member.  Yeah, maybe you should have asked for proof in writing, but at that point, what reason did you have for thinking Thomas was lying? Yeah, he came across cold at times, but for the most part, he seemed honest.  You were a "bad girl" and shared files.  It would be easy to think that Thomas was giving you a chance to redeem yourself and be almost grateful for that, when what he was really doing was manipulating you.  (I forgive you for sharing our pixles, you do me this little favor...)

I am not posting this to gain sympathy.  In fact, I expected to be sporked over it and I was prepared to take my lumps with good humor.

Oh you are so doing this for sympathy.  It's so obvious, because everyone knows this is the site where sympathy and forgiveness flow like milk and honey and no one ever gives anyone a hard time here.  This site is known for its gentleness.   Tomato, the fact that you are willing to share this information and to come here and let everyone know who you are, says pretty clearly you are not trying to gain sympathy. 

I am just telling you that I take responsibility for my part of it.  I allowed Thomas to do that.  I could have said no.  I could have insisted on proof.  I was too willing to sell my reputation for his approval.

No matter how much you want to blame yourself,  you aren't nearly as responsible as Thomas.  You might have been guilible, but guilble isn't as bad as manipulating. 

[calalily]

I do own up to what I did, although in all honesty, I hurt myself more than anyone else.  (I gave them personal information about me, because I paid by credit card.  I have nightmares that TSR will publish this information because I have shown sympathy to pirates, or because they have a bug up their asses)  The arguments I had, supporting paysite were never major, they were mostly discussions between myself and other people.  That being said, in certain situations, I never had a problem accusing pirates of having twisted logic. 

Well I wasn't saying that any of those people have great crimes under their belts - just that we see them being forthright and honest. 

Did everyone see Thomass' new second house, bought with subscription monies? http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/16/ I hope he calls it Mt. Bandwidth. 

[Missbonbon]

I saw that. Let me tell you that makes my blood boil even worse now. How can someone take money from people, lie to them about why they need the money, and then do that? Makes you wonder why he didn't post it out in the open forum eh? I think because he knows some people would figure out that his house came from their money.

[Darqstar]

Well I wasn't saying that any of those people have great crimes under their belts - just that we see them being forthright and honest. 

I just wanted to make sure people knew I wasn't a big fish in the Sims community, no matter what side I'm on.  I think I might be a minnow, or a guppy.  Not sure.  

Did everyone see Thomass' new second house, bought with subscription monies? http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/16/ I hope he calls it Mt. Bandwidth. 

Is TSR the only thing that man does for a living?  

To be honest (and you can hate me for this view) I have less problem with admins being paid than creators.  Sites have to be kept going.  If they own their own server, they have to pay for all equipment.  If they lease space, they have to offset those costs.  The site itself must take some heavy mantaining.    It's the creators getting paid that always bothered me the most.   If all TSR paid for were the people who actually run the site, I'd be  a lot more sympathetic, because I would look at it the same way I'd look at buying any web hosting.  TSR would just be specializing in hosting for Sims stuff.  

Of course, the "charging for the stuff" needs to go.  Raise the money another way.  Doesn't MST2 give you better servers if you're willing to donate?  That seems pretty fair.  

[ooglafina]

Did everyone see Thomass' new second house, bought with subscription monies? http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/16/ I hope he calls it Mt. Bandwidth. 

Of course, the "charging for the stuff" needs to go.  Raise the money another way.  Doesn't MST2 give you better servers if you're willing to donate?  That seems pretty fair.  
[/quote]

My quote editing turned out badly 

I agree with this about MTS2 and I think about that sometimes as a comparison. They are both huge sites with different contributors, but MTS2 has never resorted to subscriptions and they are still running along just fine. The big and only difference is that TSR people are so sensitive (feel the sarcasm) that they have to be paid for their valuable time and artistry and they might quit creating if they aren't paid. Well, boo hoo. If they need money to feel that we're worthy of receiving their gilded creations, then they can keep them. Their delicate feelings aren't a justification; they're an excuse.

[Darqstar]

The big and only difference is that TSR people are so sensitive (feel the sarcasm) that they have to be paid for their valuable time and artistry and they might quit creating if they aren't paid. Well, boo hoo. If they need money to feel that we're worthy of receiving their gilded creations, then they can keep them. Their delicate feelings aren't a justification; they're an excuse.

I think you nailed something there.  Reading that thread, I do get the feeling that a lot of the FA's think of themselve as fragile little snowflakes in need of protection from the harsh and bitter world.  The odd thing is that I know some of them aren't nearly as weak and kittenish as they make themselves out to be. Some of those women in there have always come across as strong, independent women.   Even outside the FA forums they act less like this.  It's like they've become watered down versions of themselves.

All I can think of is that they feel they have to be extra careful in that forum of what they say. Iif you are constantly worried about saying the wrong thing, most people start to sound weak. 

[ooglafina]

Maybe the act of being paid in the first place is what makes their work so substandard compared to free artists. I would think it would create a pressure that they didn't have before and from what I hear, they have deadlines and things, which probably doesn't allow them to finish their projects like the would normally if they were on their own. I know some people here have gone from pay to free, so I wonder if this was relevant at all to that situation.

[Sherry]

Did everyone see Thomass' new second house, bought with subscription monies? http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/16/ I hope he calls it Mt. Bandwidth. 

As someone who is going through the process of buying, a small reasonable, home now I can only imagine the cost of something like that.  Can't say I am that stunned though, as someone ran the numbers and estimated profit of TSR was pretty high.  From what I heard they are paying FA's, it's not even close!  I hope everyone can see, included you FA's who are soooo clueless that he is buying a house out of your work, what total BS this is! 

On that principle alone I would rather have my work be free, than have some d-bag pay for a house off of it. 

[SoggyFox]

I'm not surprised either.  Granted, a subscription is cheaper then the buy per set model that some sites use, but as many people as actually get a sub at TSR....I'll hope a natural disaster hits him and his houses - not the stables, wouldn't want an animal left homeless-

[daniyagami]

To be honest (and you can hate me for this view) I have less problem with admins being paid than creators.

I disagreed. I think nobody should get money to themselves and in case of donations all numbers/money account should be public so donators know what was made with that money.

Maybe the act of being paid in the first place is what makes their work so substandard compared to free artists.

I read some pages ago about the schedule to paid artists at TSR and the ammount of stuff that they need to deliver in weekly basis and doesn´t surprise me that the quality drastically decrease with such a hard shedule.

[Darqstar]

To be honest (and you can hate me for this view) I have less problem with admins being paid than creators.

I disagreed. I think nobody should get money to themselves and in case of donations all numbers/money account should be public so donators know what was made with that money.

I disagree with that.  If I felt it was wrong for whoever runs the TSR site to get paid for running it, then I should also feel that any other webpage host is wrong for being paid by Sims 2 creators to host their site.

I said further that I didn't like the selling of creations and that, to me is the wrong part of all of this.   But, if TSR wanted to come up with another way to get people to subscribe, be it faster servers or ads, or even selling T-shirts and tacos, I wouldn't begrudge the fact that the administrators need to get paid.  A site of that size isn't going to run itself and it isn't going to run on good wishes and lollypops. 

I'm disturbed at the idea that creators feel they need money in order to continue creating.  Okay, so some might leave if they weren't paid.  I don't think that matters much to anyone.  I'm of the opinion that if you feel you must get paid for a hobby, then it's time to find a new hobby.  Even if they're making five hundred dollars a month (as has been mentioned as a sort-of cap)  you could probably make more by getting a part time job.  It's just weird that this is a hobby, a total hobby, and some folks feel that it's not even worth having a fun hobby, if they aren't paid for the hobby. 

I make a lot of craft things.  Occationally I allow people who make requests to pay for my supplies, since they requested the item.  However, I would never charge for my time. These things are fun for me.  If they stopped being fun, I would stop doing them and I don't think money would lure me back.  Mostly because I feel I'd make lower quality if I was just doing it for the dollars.

As for sharing donation information?  *Shrugs* If a site asks for donations, and I donate, I don't care what they do with the money.  If it was important for me to know where my donation went and what it bought, I'd make that a stipulation before I donated.  But if a site makes some extra money above and beyond what they need to run the site?  As long as all their items were free, I don't care what they do with the extra money. 

[calalily]

Is TSR the only thing that man does for a living?  

It's unclear, as the company that owns TSR is another company that Thomass and the rest of the TSR staff own. His job is exactly the same thing on both sites - html and graphics.   Considering the amount of time he spends there, he's not doing much else, and TSR is his main income. 

When it comes to earnings, conservative estimates are that minimum, TSR makes $500,000 a year gross - even if a minute percentage of members take out a subscription.  Take away say 200 payments of $300 for artists, and that still leaves an awful lot for administration and bandwidth.