More Smutty Than You: TSR's Hall of Shame

[neriana]

I understand Goth (I think), but I've never understood emo. Goth was around when I was in high school, but emo wasn't. All I know first-hand about emo are some of the songs, which are universally terrible. Otoh, I've heard some songs by Goth bands that I've liked. I was never into Goth, it's not at all my thing, but I can see the appeal.

Basically, it seems to me that Goth is dark, while emo is self-absorbed, entitled and whiny. Totally different things except that they both wear black. Well, so does everyone in NYC.

[SoggyFox]

Actually, as a goth myself....well, partially, I do wear other colours, and I've known other goths as well who do - white is also popular, as are purples blues and of course, reds, but not brights, normally darker shades - but goth is actually a child of punk, so....

[Immortelle]

Had a Goth in one of my classes at Uni when I was doing Professional Writing.  (Will never forget the story she wrote that culminated in a rather graphic description of severing a penis with a blunt plastic knife.  I don't think there was a single person in class who didn't go shades of grey and white reading that.  The guys actually had tears in their eyes.)  She was very into the scene and knew a lot of goths as well.  She said there were the standard black goths who wore dark cloths, dark make up but made sure their skin was as pale as possible, then there were vampire goths, ghost goths who wore only white and very pale colours, colour goths who would wear any colour but black (colour goths she said were the least common).  From what I know there are also cyber goths these days too.  I've never been into Goth btw, just knew a few (was also friends with the closest thing Mildura had to a goth.)

[Eskimo Pie]

 Emo kids scare me because I can not tell the difference between the boys and the girls LOL   I know some people fund emo boys hot, but I like my men a bit ruff around the edges. Of course this is coming from someone who still listens to 80's metal and just spent over 300 dollars to have VIP seats to the upcoming KISS concert

That outfit is not emo at all, far as I can tell emo girls cover up really well. They might wear tight jeans but not shorts up their butts!

[keirra]

Kiss is excellent in concert one of the best. I never had an opinion about Kiss until my then 16 year old son begged me to go to a concert. I've been a huge fan ever since. We went to the opening show of their "Farewell Tour" in March 2000 in Phoenix, Arizona.

[SoggyFox]

Had a Goth in one of my classes at Uni when I was doing Professional Writing.  (Will never forget the story she wrote that culminated in a rather graphic description of severing a penis with a blunt plastic knife.  I don't think there was a single person in class who didn't go shades of grey and white reading that.  The guys actually had tears in their eyes.)  She was very into the scene and knew a lot of goths as well.  She said there were the standard black goths who wore dark cloths, dark make up but made sure their skin was as pale as possible, then there were vampire goths, ghost goths who wore only white and very pale colours, colour goths who would wear any colour but black (colour goths she said were the least common).  From what I know there are also cyber goths these days too.  I've never been into Goth btw, just knew a few (was also friends with the closest thing Mildura had to a goth.)

I'm sorry, but to me, most of those aren't really goths - they are posers.  Then again, I was a goth back in the 80s, and more in just what I liked and my makeup, and not 'lifestyle'.  When goth was more about the music you liked and the fiction you read, and not just being 'omg different.'

[Darqstar]

I've lost count of the KISS concerts I've seen.  My husband is a huge KISS fan from way way back.  We used to go and see this local tribute band a lot that was really good.  Yeah, I miss those days...

[Bouncing Pink Ball]

Well this is a weird choice for a first post but I couldn't help myself.

Goth and emo have some relation but it's very surface. Mostly it's folks confusing the two, but there is a bit of musical taste overlap. One thing that struck me as funny is emo's only wearing black. Most emos I've met looked more like scene kids who accidently put half thier bright colors into the wash with a pair of black socks. They all go in for screen printed t-shirts and streaked hair. (As a side note; the registration screen asked for no names with xDumbNameHerex. Some emos will do that – 'cause a few of the punkish ones (or fans of certain punk and emo bands) are straightedge – but most goth won't, even if they are edge. xNamex is mostly for kiddies, and while goths can be young too, almost all emos are young.)

Goth encompases a wide range, and I'm about to do a lot of generalizing. There are cybers and rivetheads who like industrial dance bars and pvc clothes. Those into the bondage subscene like pvc too .  The rockabillys and vintage crowd look like throwbacks to earlier modern eras but the former seem more like the types you'd find at a punk concert while the vintage folks have a Amy Winehouse-ish look about them. The trad goth dresses in black and favors looking like they never go outside, others seem best suited to Pagan gatherings with thier fairy dust and penchant for wearing wings. Then there's the victorian and medieval goths – very obvious because they dress and often talk the part of people dropped from a time warp. The lolitas are obvious; they're the ones in frilly gear who love bows and parasols. The loli look is very hard to get right and the Sims community often picks on the poor loli with some rather odd dresses. Babydolls are sometimes confused with lolis but shouldn't be. The do like short frilly skirts but are more concerned with looking (and acting, on the club scene) purposefully childlike. Oh, and there are certainly goths that never wear black. Sometimes it's a ghostly look, in other cases, it's about being sparkly and uber-upbeat. Yes, there are goths like that, one clear difference right there from the emo type.

There are, of course, other sub groups of goth out there. I haven't even mentioned some of the most common ones, probably because they overlap so much with other types. The vampire lovers, for instance, come in every flavor, and causal, old style goths can appear so similar to the punk roots of the scene that you might not know where to place them, much like rockabilly and vintage. I seem to be tossing around a lot of labels, which doesn't really fit with the inclusiveness of the subculture scene, but seeing as the topic – what's a goth and what's an emo – came up, I figured I might as well explain a bit of it. Though keep in mind, this is just from my perspective and you could ask someone from a different region, sphere or generation of gothic culture and get somewhat different labels and descriptions. One thing to remember is that true goths are rarely morbid without purpose, cruel, judgemental or violently dark. Those types are usually isolated kids attracted to the supposed darkness without much real contact within the wider community. Popular culture tends to mislabel anyone strangely morbid and/or violent, into vampires or dressed in odd black clothes as goth and that's simply not reality.


Oh and yeah, there's some pervy goods over at TSR. Yup.

[Eskimo Pie]

 I am super excited to see KISS, I have always lived in little places were big bands never came. I am still in a small city now but we get a big show here and there. This past year I got to see Ozzy and Alice Cooper....before they drop dead from being 100 years old and still on stage!

[Pescado]

I personally subscribe to the fur-wearing, axe-wielding, Rome-burning sort of Goth.

[ooglafina]

I personally subscribe to the fur-wearing, axe-wielding, Rome-burning sort of Goth.

Yeah, I wonder how modern goths started using that name.

[SoggyFox]

I think it comes from gothic, but I'm honestly not sure.  Most early goth bands still called themselves punk bands, even though they weren't really punk anymore either, but post-punk.  One day I'll have to look it up, beyond just the music, which is what my interest is primarily in.

And I'd love to see Kiss, Ozzy or Alice [or any number of other performers really].  I've seen some awesome shows in my youth, including the Ramones [I was near the very front and sensibly to the side - was a mosh pit ] before most of them died *mourn*, but few of the real classic rock bands.

[Scurvy Cat]

I personally subscribe to the fur-wearing, axe-wielding, Rome-burning sort of Goth.

Only kind to be!

[ChaosInAMinor]

It actually comes from "gothick" not "gothic". Gothic art and architecture was actually all about bright and light...the cathedrals and such are just so old now that they look faded. Gothick is from Romanticism. Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" came out at this time. It was a fascination with the dark, the underbelly of the world. Gothic lasted from the 12th century to the early 16th century. It was about pulling out of the dark ages. Romanticism, where the "Gothick" style was derived, was during the 19th century.

*puts art history nerd back into hiding*

[neriana]

Gothic literature, a la the Bronte sisters, is spelled "Gothic". Actually it's often not capitalized.

"Dark ages" is a misnomer and is no longer used.