New MTS2 Rules

[Delphy]

Thing is, we see a difference between free content and pay.  This entire "war" isn't actually about destroying paysites, is it? It's about getting the content for free.  

It is my opinion that pay-content-hosted-for-free actually doesn't send the right message - and that free content is the thing to target.  Just becuase that content is hosted on a site that has other pay or donation content really doesn't factor in that much.  

So, as I said, it's about the content and if all the content in the community is offered for free in the first place then we have won, haven't we?  (Note I said offered for free in the first place becuase then it's the creators or sites choice to give it for free, which is still important)

However, if you feel that paysites and all content on paysites, regardless of if that content is free or not, should be destroyed, then fine, be it on your own head.  But we aren't gonna change the rules on MTS2 anytime soon.

[AW]

You can't have it both ways.  I think the stand MTS2 made within the community sends a very big message to a lot of people.  Including paysites.  You can't say that we are a free site and advertise for paysites, that makes no sense whatsoever.  

Does it cause you inconvenience?  Sorry.  I mean, you really have to choose "your battles".  What is your objective?  Do you want content for free provided to the community?  It has to start somewhere.  Growing pains of any kind hurt, change is not easy.  Bitching and moaning about the "way it used to be" will keep you exactly where you are and going nowhere.

So, how about YOU support the community back.  How about you support MTS2 the same way they support, oh I don't know how many, creators as well as this community?  I'm sorry if I sound pissed off, I am.  No decision will please everyone.  Either you try to make the best of it and change and grow, or you leave and go a different direction.  Loyalty is extremely important to me, how about you?  It's like working for the Red Cross wearing a McDonald's uniform.

[Plum]

This entire "war" isn't actually about destroying paysites, is it?

I think you've forgotten which site you're posting at.  xD

But I don't see how what you're saying addresses my concern--if you allow free content from paysites, paysites are still being advertised.  You may be directly promoting their free content, but the result is the same, and without the benefit of being able to tell people they can still get the stuff without paying for it.

It's my opinion that pay-content-hosted-for-free does send the right message--that being that we love the stuff, we just think it's inappropriate to charge for it.

Unfortunately, I don't run the site so my opinion means jack.  All I can do is poo-poo the idea.

Also, armywife...  Uhh...  I'm sure you're great and all, but your emotional appeal is all but lost on the likes of me.

[AW]

Though I may disagree with you Plum, you can't blame a gal for trying.

I think it sends a different message if you use all free content, that being that there are just as many wonderful creations available for free as there are pay.  The misconception that plagues this community, me included when I was first exposed to it, was that because it costs money that it must be better.  That really isn't true at all.  I for one have asked WCIF an item that was in a picture only to discover it was a pay item.  In my pre-booty days, that is, and it was frustrating.  However, I was usually able to find something similiar and usually something I actually liked better once I looked.

[Plum]

That's a point I can agree with.  I want to reiterate that I don't think this new rule is all bad, I just think there's more potential for suck than there is for strawberry goodness.

[Renegade]

I agree with Plum.  I think it sends out the wrong message to be able to show a Peggy "free" hair, have everyone ask "oooh where did you get that COOOL looking hair?" and sending them off to Peggy.

This DOES still give "free advertising" to paysites, because as Plum said, we'd be sending them off to Peggy, and they will take one look at the pay hairs and want to subscribe.  They won't know of all the problems with Peggy hairs, nor will they know the alternatives (i.e. Booty, fixed meshes available elsewhere, etc) until they subscribe to Peggy, find out most of her hairs like to cut off the Sim's head, then feel bad about wasting their money on a subscription.

I agree with armywife in sending out the message that there are "many wonderful creations available for free" - I just don't think that showing a Peggy or Rose hair actually sends out that message.  It shows you can use "decent, but kinda crappy hairs for free, or pay to get the "better" ones" - and they won't know they can get the Pay ones at PMBD to see them in all their shittiness first.

And to Delphy - this site is kind of about destroying paysites yes; however, the point is that people cannot charge for custom content.  I don't see how "pay content hosted for free" sends out the wrong message.  I think it bolsters the message that they should not be charging for content in the first place, so we've taken it upon ourselves to provide for people what they should already be getting for free.

That's my two cents, and then some.

[AW]

Renegade - I see and appreciate what you are saying.  But Delphy has to be fair and do what he feels is in the best interest of MTS2.  He and all the mods made these decisions.  I don't want damn stupid Peggy and her gappy hair to get any more money.  

I think, in my humble opinion, that what it is stating is that if you have free items, they are welcome.  Parsiminous did the very same thing.  Their finds section is no different in its policy.  MTS2 is attempting to create an all free community.  Maybe the sites that have pay content will see that without all the recolors available in the community, that they are limited in the pay items and getting anything else but what the paysite offers.  Maybe this will encourage more paysites to liberate items so they can be used and posted and downloaded and recolored.

Hell, I don't know.  I just think that you have to see that what MTS2 is promoting are free items and in a way that a paysite can't argue that they are being treated unfairly, all they have to do is provide items for free and they can be splashed all over MTS2.  PMBD may not have been well known a year or even 6 months ago, but we are getting the word out and more and more are downloading from the booty.  Before we condemn, couldn't we give it a chance?  That's really all I am saying.  

BTW, loved your men's clothing, you might have missed my note in the thread, but your creations rock - seriously rock!

[Plum]

armywife, either you're missing our point entirely or you just don't see it as a problem.  Allowing the free items from the paysites advertises for the paysites just as much as if the pay items were allowed also.  And, if you're just promoting their free items whilte ignoring their pay items entirely, the uninformed wont know any better and will likely end up subscribing to these sites.

If you don't want damn stupid Peggy and her gappy hair to get any more money then you should either (a) not advertise her site at all or (b) advertise that her items should not be paid for, and are available for free.

[Renegade]

:oops:  Thank you!~ After your posting and some others, I felt really good about it and I do have plans to make more male clothing, but I can't say when I'll get that done since I have no clue.

I do like MTS2's new rules, I do like what they're offering.  I'm just saying with a site like Peggy or Rose, they should maybe have the same policy as they do for TSR.

I don't think Peggy or Rose really care if they're splashed over MTS2 or not, and I sincerely doubt they'll be inspired to make more things free.  It's unfortunate, but I think it's true.

I guess if people showed a free peggy hair, and someoen asked "where do i get that", the person could answer by saying "You can get it at PeggySims, but if you look at anything Pay, go to PMBD for it" and explain why or something.  Of cousre, then that would be upon the creator to do so, and they may not even know about PMBD.

Peggy is evil.

ETA: Plum said it all for me lol

[AW]

No, Plum, I do get the point.  I just look at it from other points of view and my opinion differs from yours where MTS2 is concerned.

[Plum]

If you're implying that I haven't looked at other points of view, you're wrong.  I started out thinking it was a great move, but the more I think about it, the more flaws I see.

I don't think your opinion differs from me all that much.  I still think MTS2 is the best Sims site there is.  It's a ton of stuff 100% free all the time, and that's a lot of work for them.  I just don't always agree with the rules.  Do you see me rebelling or throwing a fit?  No.  I'm just stating my thoughts on it.

[Renegade]

Okay, I have an example that may not be necessary but I want to do this anyway.

Let's say someone at MTS2 makes a creation for a sim swimsuit and in their preview picture, the sim is wearing a "free" Peggy hair.

User1 downloads but asks "Where do I get this hair?"
Creator: Oh, you can get that at Peggysims, there's a LOT of hair there!
User1: omg kewl thx!!!111

User1 heads over to Peggysims, and at the very front of their page, they see the latest PAY updates first, then the free ones at the bottom.  They download the free hair, but decide to go check out the Pay section, because they don't know PMBD even exists.

They see this hair.  They think to themselves: "OMG THAT IZSO AMAZING!!!!!! MUST HAVE!"  And they go look at all the other hairs, and decide "YES PEGGY GETZ ALL MAI MONIEZ" And go maybe beg parents for paypal/monies/whatever to help pay for Peggy's porche.

Anyway, they pay, download, and instead of a nice pretty hair, they get this instead.

Now they are traumatized for life because they just witnessed their Sim's head detach when they crossed their arms, but also because they wasted money on a month subscription to Peggy - or worse, MORE than a month.

All because of a free Peggy hair that was shown in the first place, and no information available on what to do about not wasting your money on her "gorgeous" pay hairs.

I will admit I was once a victim of Peggy, and I really do not want to see it happen to others.  I just don't care.  Peggy should be banned from life.

[AW]

Hey Plum, I wasn't being bitchy at you.  There will always be flaws, nothing is perfect - ok maybe I'm perfect. :wink:  I respect what you have to say and I do see why you feel the way you do.  

I think I'll excuse myself from the discussion.  I am not a creator so I guess my opinion really isn't one that counts anyway.  I don't have to deal with the rules, so it doesn't affect me.  I was just stating my thoughts as well.  I guess at one point I thought you were implying I was stupid and not able to understand.  So, if I offended you, I am sorry because that is not what I was trying to do at all.  K?

[Ry]

I'm going to step in and try to become peacemaker.

I don't think AW was trying to imply you weren't seeing other views, Plum. I think she was simply stating that she has different views about it than you.
I understand where you BOTH are coming from.
With Delphy, he is more concerned with free content, not destroying the paysites. Earlier in this thread *i believe it was this one* he stated that pretty plainly. And then someone commented to him that he should remeber where he was posting.
 :lol: I thought it was funny.
Anyway. Considering HIS feelings on the subject, what he is doing makes sense. And all AW was saying is that she understood why HE felt the way he did. I don't even think she was really agreeing with him, just with the fact that what he is doing makes sense considering the stance he has chosen in this war against paysites.

But, I don't feel he's taken the right stance, and obviously, niether do you, Plum.
And that's alright. We don't have to agree with everthing Delphy does with MTS2. But considering all he's done for the community, and even if you DO think his rules are shady or wrong, he does deserve the respect to atleast decide them on his own.
I don't think that showing ANY paysite content is right for MTS2, whether its free or not, really.
But I understand that all Delphy is trying to do is promote the FREE sections and creations on these sites.
He might inadvertantly be advertising for the pay, yes, but that's where PSMD comes in. Just get the word out there and then they can come here when they want the pay stuff.

I hope that helps!!!

[Plum]

Restating the last few posts of this thread did not help, no, but I appreciate your effort nonetheless.  <3