PMBD

I would say this is a step in the right direction:

The Short Rules

1. Any uploads to MTS2 that require pay content will no longer be accepted for upload!

2. Any uploads to MTS2 that have optional pay content will no longer be accepted for upload!

3. All content must be showcased using free content only.


This is definitely going to put a big hurt on the paysites.  
I think the pirates are going to win this battle.
Although that does kind of put a dent in pay file sharing.  Oh well, I guess thats what the official sites and personal sites are for :)

ETA: Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, or has already been posted somewhere.

So... uploaders can only use free content in their screenshots showing what they're offering for download? Or am I reading that wrong?

Did anyone else notice at the bottom of Delphy's post he mentioned he's leaving the community for awhile

Duckie, good question. Hopefully Delphy, HystericalParoxysm, or Lethe will see this and answer how that will work logistically.

Noodles, I think that's been on his sig for a while.

I say BRAVO, MTS2.

He's said that before I think.  I think if he leaves even for just a couple weeks he announces it.


I got that they just don't want people advertising for paysites.  Like "hey, get this hot hair at Peggy's for only $toomuch".  And they want dls in pics credited more.  They're getting tired of WCIF in the creator feedbacks.

I liked the part about no TSR crap. I don't download anymore, and wouldn't search the booty for a mesh for some thing I was downloading so it doesn't affect me.

Good Job, MTS2!

I don't understand this one. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me please?

My understanding is that, for example, if you made a set of lipsticks, and you have a model with fabulous pay hair in your screenshots, that is what won't be allowed. Makes sense to me, if you're not offering the hair, people will constantly ask, where's the hair from and it only serves to give the paysite a free ad.

However, it seems that if you have a sim that you are uploading, with only free content on it, and there happens to be a corner of a pay site table in the pic, that will be ok, because it's unlikely that the bit of table will get much attention...

In general, I think it's a good policy.

Yep, got the link for the thread and read the whole thing.

http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=240944 if you want to read the whole thing too.

The answer to my question was in there along with a lot of other really good stuff.

Oh, and that note about Delphy taking a break from the community has been in his sig for a while now. So far it hasn't happened yet that I've seen.

...and, you can't credit it, nor can you answer a wcif about it.

You realize, of course, that the no-TSR policy is going to produce that which we love so much:

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u194/MusicalMaven/LOLcatz/moarfight.jpg)

Well TSR did that to MTS2 and they tried to recruit people from mts2. TSR got what it deserves and so did the rest of the paysites. *Passes around rum and Juicy Juice*  :D Juicy Juice is the shizz.

ETA: TSR and other paysites can still get free ads. Their stuff can be on MTS2 if it's free.



Edit # 2: Except TSR

This is interesting, I wonder what caused this sudden burst of activism.

I'm not sure it's so sudden, Delphy has been quite active in the paysites debates on S2C lately. Mostly he seems to be wanting to find ways to promote free sites over pay sites.... he has even offered help to free site owners needing technical advice....

Hells yeah!  If you remember you probably don't I raged "war" with elmazz sisters over them uploading stuff on mts2 with screen shots of models loaded with pay items.

Yay for MtS2!

I remember that, actually. Isn't that the time when they stormed off in a huff, saying something along the lines of "fine, if you don't appreciate us enough then we're gone from MTS2"? And the only reason they ever uploaded that eyeset was to advertise everything else on the model. Feh.

This is a great change for MTS2, indeed, and it makes me all pleased and stuff. I actually don't mind pay items in pictures like that, but the less advertising the better I guess. I get the feeling that we're going to be seeing a lot more Nouk hair on models.

That rocks! I'm sure the moderating team should get credit as they had to agree to this work too  :D Kudos to MTS2 - who can't say they are the best freesite, eh?

Works for me.  I wish they would just cave and allow PMBD links already though; it'd make things a lot easier.

calalily, Yes, the mods need credits too becuase this has been discussed for about a month internally, with various revisions and changes and clarifications along the way.

Plum, actually with these rulings we won't need to allow links to PMBD from downloads - becuase there will be no pay only contents on the site, hence no need for links.

Clementyne, I did actually leave for a few weeks, that message in my sig is just there so people will stop bugging me :P

*claps hands*  Good!  This will probably encourage free creators as well, as it gives more of them a chance to shine.  (I'm speaking in regards to the pictures part, ie sims used in a lip color ad)  Yes thank you MTS2 team for making this great decision, but that also makes the job a bit hard for you, and I wish you all the best of luck :)

So if we have a link to the booty in our sig, we have to remove it?

eta: and does this also comply to S2C as well?

Feverish,
rule 2 applies mostly to houses and sims. If there is, say, a sim that is shown with peggy's latest pay hair, that hair is not necessary for the sim to work. You can change the hair if you want. However, the sim will look very different without it. That's why the sim, in the picture, should be put in a hair that the downloader *can* get without paying.

No Captain, becuase 1) These are rules for MTS2, not S2C.  Seperate sites you know ;)  and 2) See new rule 6.   I'll quote it:

6. With regards to the signature rules: removal of links is at the absolute discretion and final decision of the admins.

We have always had rules to prevent linking to illegal content, however just because you might not agree with a persons sig, doesn't mean it should be removed. If the signature has swear words, or links to pornography or warez sites, then it will be removed as per the existing rules. All other links are removed only at the discretion and decision of an admin. If you find a signature you disagree with, you may report it, but please keep these rules in mind.

This means that you do not have to remove links to PMBD from your signature.  It also means that if you are, for example, a paysite owner who takes offense to a sig from a user that links to PMBD (which has happened), you can complain about it, but we don't have to do anything about it, like remove it.

Also, I'll be interested to see what kind of knock on effect this has for other sites. :)

Ahh thanks for answering that :) I was just slightly worried that this good change had a sneaky catch to it - because I am suspicious of everything  :wink:

Hmm well I think this an excellent change! This way they do not in the slightest way get any advertisement from themselves or others. As when someone uploads a lovely Peggy pay recolour, they are in effect promoting her, and I do remember Raon joining up and posting some hairs to er 'bait' (to use NeptuneSuzy's famous words) people over, as does over pay sites, most notably TSR who send over FAs and SAs.

It will be interesting to see what this change will do to sites like Raon, Peggy and TSR. They are going to have to do some advertising to get people to know about them...

Woo for the free I say! It will be awesome to log onto MTS2 and to see no pay stuff in the screenshots...

This is going to be interesting!

*passes much rum around*

Saw this over on MTS2 in the news thread:

"I know that the buzz in the community has been saying there were changes certainly coming to MTS2's policy regarding pay items. Seems though that some people thought MTS2 would go the other route and allow pay meshes to be included in uploads, but you are so right when you say:"

I find this very interesting. :P

Hey! I said that!
It might have been buzz in the community, or it might have just been the voices in my head....

Sounds like some pro-paysite propoganda. All signs have led to the new guidelines. Don't they actually READ the threads? Heh.

Yes yes I read the threads.... pro paysite? Me? No! Someone who knows me won't you stick up for me?  :)
 either way let me clarify...

I didn't mean to say that MTS2 would offer pay content, but that it seemed people were hoping that MTS2 would turn a blind eye to pay content included in uploads.

Deleted by me

Delphy -  Glad your back - you are much needed.  Hope you got my pm and hope all is better.

I just saw the new rules and came to celebrate!  I was sure you would all be as well. :)

This is a huge step by one of the largest and most influential Sims 2 download sites available.  Big thanks to Delphy and all who made it happen.

EDIT



Ok I understand now. Thank you very much for explaining that to me.

Congratulations to all the staff at MTS2 for the new rules - my admiration for your work only grows!  :D Keep up the good work. Arrr!

Good stuff!

If EA decides to support paysites, does this decision still stand?

Nouk: Hell yes

Thanks Delphy! This will certainly be a huge blow to paysites in general and TSR in particular.

This will cause peggy and rose major butthurt. I see recolors of their hairs (mostly pay) a lot!  :D Yay for Delphy *Gives him a cookie and some Juicy Juice and/or Rum*

<3

That is all.

Hey, what awesome news! That's fabulous, Delphy!

Now, onto the actual important stuff though...where are my free laptops and panties and kitties etc etc  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Yep.  Actually, it was the lipstick but they did upload an eye set shortly before to do the same thing.  Notice they're both things that don't require meshes and are very simple.  It's easy to make them look okay aka better than default EAMaxis.  Okay is obviously not the same as good and great like Bruno's lipsticks and Barcelonista's eyes..

I refused those pox blankets a mile away.

MTS2 has always been my favorite. And every day brings more love. Excellent policy change. It has always made me very uneasy to see paysite creators from TSR advertising on MTS2. (Here are the recolors, get the mesh from TSR. Gah!)

Yes then digging through the rubbish not to find it,
or it cost you (Too Much) be it on tsr or some of the other paysites out there,
most of it is ugly anyways, especialy the crap on tsr.

I like the new Rules but it's going to take getting use to because it's kinda hard of finding the free hairstyle that is just as good as pay hair (We All know that Nouk hairs is freakin Awesome btw!!!) but what about the hair style that you want for your sims to look good? Other than that the rules are superb. Hopefully I am learning to start and trying to create great meshes just like nouk's for free!!! :) and this will hurt paysites and that's a good thing too!!!

Indeed, I've seen the recolors as well.  I visit ModTheSims2 everyday looking for stuff.  (I'm a total download whore.)  There used to be tons of them... Peggy hair, especially.  This will definitely give Peggy & Rose a kick in the arse.

*Salutes Delphy again*

Try XM Sims. Free, lovely hair.

XM Sims is the bestest (not that I don't like Nouk's...I do, it's just a volume thing for me).

So, I didn't notice it in the rules, but say I want to post some recolors. The mesh file is on TSR as a pay item, but it's also on the creator's 100% free site, because we all know what asshats TSR is about not relinquishing files. 'Tis ok to link to the creator's freesite file and not mention the evilness, right?

*In this specific instance I'm referring to my own recolors of Echo's 1x1 floormat, which I'll be submitting this week (seriously, can I procrastinate a bit more?), but a general rule is good.

kariminger - I think that'd be fine.  As long as the mesh can be obtained for free from the creator's site, TSR holding their files hostage for pay is between them and TSR.

What I'd like to know is what happens if you link to - in your MTS2 signature - a site that posts free, fixed versions of shoddy, gap-filled pay hair meshes?  Since you're not allowed to sell CC anyway, does it make it okay to link to a site that offers the above?

I love the new rules, yes I love them. No more free advertising for Elmazzzzzzzzz and friends  :D
Huzzah!
I won't complain about 503 errors for some time then  :roll:

I'll probably start making and uploading more stuff again - it was disheartening for my stuff to get lose in all the pay recolours and objects with pay content making it look all spiffy [ And yet, wouldn't even run after I removed all the statues because I don't buy pay crap.

And Nouks hair is about all I use custom - just wish she did more hair down too [ because I feel silly with my sims always wearing ponytails, even to shower and sleep ]

*bowls over the soggy one with huge hug then presents chocochip cookies and rum* Where have you BEEN!? I have really missed you...

I will re-post what I said over MTS2 for visibility purposes. I am a  bit confused  about some critters and definitions (specially of the new pay temporary archive) and I got a little worried...
so yeah, here it goes:


Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer.
The recolors/sims etc with pay content uploaded prior to these rules, they will be moved to an archive, right? But after moving them all to this archive, what will happen to these downloads? Will they be deleted forever? Will they be offered to be re-uploaded on another site? Will they be stored on MTS2's servers?

I agree plenty with the new rules, and always thought it was a contradiction that MTS2 would not support paysites (and vice versa, right, TSR?) but would provide free ad space. Sure, it was a "crack in the system" rather than a billboard, but still...

However, deleting forever content that (1)was made before the whole paysite vs freesite debate even came up and (2) doesn't exist anywhere else anymore is a bit harsh, too... maybe the creators of such content should be PM'ed? Maybe send these creations to the Exchange (so that EA will pay for paysites's advertisement rather than us)?

As a creator, you not only have 'creator rights', you have 'creator responsibilities'. So many people howl for their rights, but forget that it is up to you to maintain your own downloads. If you wish for your downloads to be usable, it is pretty much expected that you maintain support for them and find proper homes for them. It isn't enough to slap it on MTS2 and walk away. If you have creations that use pay meshes then this is the time for you to go through your own downloads and move them to another host.  It isn't Delphy's responsibility to do all that for you. He just makes the rules and gives you enough warning to do something about it.

Well, Teko/Murano said, he deleted all of his downloads from MTS2 as he can't accept this policy. He calls it nutty and absolutely goony. A harrasment for creators

He also said he'd upload them all to TSR, the "biggest and most known site in the community"

I say, he would have done it anyway. TSR pays him, MTS does not

You can't make everyone happy, especially not the ones who expect much much more than a thank you from people.

Agreed heartily . But what about "retired creators" or creators that, for many reasons RL obliges us to face, didn't have much time to set up a storage account, unlike the much awesome Sussi?

For active creators, it isn't hard to come up with a solution, but what about the ones who have vanished from the community altogether?

edit: I bet Teko was just waiting for the smalled opportunity (read: excuse) to join TSR  :roll:

And Delphy deals the smackdown:




http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=240944&c=0&ht=0&page=9&pp=25#startcomments

Step in the right direction, but still, where I am going to get retextures of godawful peggy haircolors now?!?!

I'm still wondering if it would be okay to link to my site.

Or if stuff on my site is allowed in people's pictures and whatnot since it will be free, and not just paysite creations stuck on there.  I put work into fixing hairmeshes to make them look good and not cut off our sims' heads, and offer them free.  What does that classify my site as?  A free site, or a "content-that-was-pay-that-somebody-happens-to-host-for-free"?  It's not like I'm sticking a paysite's exact content on my site for free, but I'm making a fair bit of mesh modifications, retextures, and recolours.  I also plan to eventually have my own creations on my site which are not based off of paysites' materials.

idtaminger - lovely to see you again!   :D  But I wonder why you're not psychic and can't see that RenegadeSims was going to post after you  :roll:

The retextures are what I'm going to miss too. At least there's still SFV, and they have good ones. I still agree that this is the best step and will stop some subscribers, the type who see Peggy hair on pretty sim and pay Peggy for the hair.

LMAO!! Yes, my site is one of those that will do Peggy hairs, too :)  But I'm a bit slower with things since I don't only recolour, but I try and fix up the meshes, too.  Right now it's only RoseSims' hairs, but I'm going to be working on some Peggy ones this week (assuming I finish the current mesh I'm working on)!

IEliminate - what if they don't use "peggy" or "rose" hairs?  What if they use Renegade fixed hairs - and much nicer-looking ones in my opinion - and don't pay a dime for it? :P

P.S. Now I'm confused.  Calalily - was that a kind of crack at me?  Or am I just...really confused?  :oops:

Ah, thanks. :D I just came back a while ago from a semester in Europe. Haven't played Sims in a long time. Good to be back though.

Thanks, now you made me read everything you guys write as a song...   :lol:

You're really confused  :D It was sarcasm - and trying to direct idtaminger to your site - as you do recolours  :D Don't worry - if I have a go at you it won't be over something you have no idea about - and I usually do it with pictures.  I'm not usually (must make a caveat here just in case I go batshit at some stage in the future or past) so touchy as I get pissed at people for nothing  :D



Lucky bugger hope you had fun.  At least I get to look at that avi. Gorgeous.

I'm not quite sure what you were meaning, and if I totally misinterpreted it I apologize, but I like edits and recolors of pay or free hair better than the original colours most of the time. I normally find those at MTS2 or SFV. If your site offers them (I haven't heard of a lot of sites) I'll go look there when it's back up.  :wink:

I apologize.  I just don't seem to understand things or make sense anymore!

But Calalily - I assumed it was just sarcasm, but then I started reading it too much and it began to have secret meanings to me lol

And to IEliminate - yes, I do recolours and re-meshes (is that a word) of pre-existing meshes, i.e. if Rose or Peggy meshes have gaps and animation issues/no-animation, I try and fix those issues and upload fixed, animated (usually) meshes of the hairs, along with retextures and recolours.  Hopefully should be back up by July 30th, that's my goal.  If I can just fix the mesh I'm currently working on, things should go as planned.

But my original answer to you was ...confusing, even to myself.  I was just being dumb and trying to make a statement using a previous question and it just didn't make sense, I think.  That's just a guess because I really have no clue where I was going with that.  Don't mind me :P

I suggest http://rissa-styles.tevalon.de/ (and I'm going to check out RenegadeSims's site, too)

My newest shirt set was up at MTS2 for a couple of days, but just got shot back so I can remove my screen shots that show pay content.

And all the rest of my sets have shots with pay content, so all the work making pretty pictures to show off the sets has gone to waste.  How irritating.  xP

I guess it's the sacrifices we must make for the cause.  ;___;

Another response by Delphy in the above linked post, (direct link to post) (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1721775#post1721775):


So, by providing the booty, we're sending the message that paysites are still ok. :|

I thought the meaning with everything was that all custom content should be free and noncomercial. That all stuff in the community should be free to use for everybody. Not a boycott of the stuff, just educating people that it´s wrong to pay for it.

My understanding is that past uploads that have screenshots of pay content is OK, it's only from here on out that uploads will be rejected for shots with pay...  So your past shots aren't a waste :)

That's Delphy's stance for MTS2 - and I think it's the right one.  Many people don't or won't use the booty on principle - but they might consider using paysites. So I don't think Delphy's policy is a problem, because it's essentially ruling that paysites are not okay, no matter what.

I was surprised to see recolors of a free Peggy hair mesh by Bruno.  I thought  if a site had pay items that even the free ones couldn't be recolored.  I obviously misunderstood.  I must learn to read more carefully.  :oops:
Is it true that nothing from TSR will be accepted?  If so, that is one of the best rules of the new policy.

Yep, it's true nothing from TSR will be accepted as any creator at the site could be promoted to FA at any time and then their meshes/objects would become pay items. (Of course if the creator from TSR allows redistribution of the meshes/objects with your uploads then they can still be used as people won't have to go to TSR to get the stuff.)

Ah, but MTS2 doesn't accept meshes included with recolours (unless you made the mesh yourself) so TSR stuff couldn't be snuck in that way either  :P

I mean ones that I already made screenshots for, but I haven't posted yet.  These were up for a couple of days before they got shot back saying I couldn't show pay content... at all.

I'm starting to see why people make their own sites.  I still like MTS2, but dealing with them as a creator is becoming... frustrating.

Still, I think it's worth it.  Paysites must be destroyed, after all.

I have an upload that includes the simchic mesh it requires and they were perfectly fine wih that, plus if you look at the clothing section there are loads of uploads with meshes that weren't made by the recolourer included.

I think as long as the original creator gives permission for redistribution to happen they don't have a problem with it. Unless they just changed that rule and I missed it in which case I'm annoyed because it screws up what I'm currently working on.

Is it true that MTS2 has been removed from the official Sims 2 fansite listings?

I don't know, Nouk.  But, I would be interested at the meaning of this



At the bottom of the fansite page

Edited.

Scratch that, here's the link to s2c with the bbs link:

http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=963314&postcount=233

I've seen clothing recolours with the mesh included as well, and maybe the staff has become a bit looser on the policy over time, depending on where the mesh is from, but the guidelines state that meshes must not be included:

(http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=715542#post715542)

I know there's been complaints about this policy since some big and known sites (like SimChic) are very clear on allowing redistribution of their meshes, but the official response was that MTS2 can't keep track of who does and doesn't allow redistribution, therefor no meshes was to be uploaded at all, since it's MTS2 who has to handle the complaints from pissed-off creators...

I guess i can understand that, but I'm pretty sick of playing the "Chase-The-Mesh" game over and over, so I rarely download anything unless the mesh is included.

Edited for making clear I was responding too Minolias post

A lot of the guidelines are outdated and we're looking into updating some of the wording as a lot of changes in policy have happened since much of that was added.

SimChic stuff is a special case, having a weird policy.  Their meshes can be included as they have specifically said that their meshes can be redistributed - including the pay ones.  You don't have to pay for anything to get everything there, so it's okay.  And if other creators allow their meshes to be included, that's fine too.  Normally if it's on MTS2 it's really not necessary to include it - no need to duplicate files that are already on the site, just link to it.  But elsewhere, it's fine and is done all the time, as you'll see if you look at the recent clothing downloads.  They're also allowed on sims if you've recoloured the clothes (or hair or whatever) and the creator's okay with meshes being included with recolours.

MTS2 wasn't -on- the fansite list in the first place.  I doubt any staff member ever bothered submitting us, and they don't look to have been updated in a long time anyway.

Oh that makes me feel a whole lot better.  I love MTS2.  I think I can find something to download there every single day.  I didn't even look at the official fansite list when I joined the community - I looked at Google - because the fansite list is useless.

And they haven't updated it since about January - and I know for sure they haven't updated it since April - cause my site isn't on it.

I thought MTS2 used to be on the fansite list.  I thought that's how I found them in the first place.  They used to be one of the top sites listed?

Can't remember too well now though. :(

People talk about it everywhere, including the BBS, so it's very possible you found it on the EA site, but maybe not the fan listing?  I never even thought to look on the official page for a fansite listing.

I'm a big LJer, so before I got involved in any way with the Sim community, I used the Sim communities on LJ to find stuff to download.

It used to be on the fansite listing becuase I submitted it myself.  I have  no idea whats happened to it.

Oh and the BBS can go die in a fire, and all the stupid idiotic morons with 2 peas for brains can die too, and everybody who hates me, and everybody who hates the site, and everybody who has to fucking drag fucking old news up every fucking time anybody mentions me, and, well, just the whole fucking community over there, except those who have brains... they can stay.  Everybody else though.... *lights match*

Fucking fuckwits.

Delphy, wasn't there some deal about EA not accepting anything other than PG sites, and at that point you still had some adult stuff on MTS2?  I seem to remember someone at TSR mentioning something along those lines (although I'll admit that's not exactly an unimpeachable source). :D

Yeah it was but then it got resubmitted, I think.

Eh, I don't care anyway.

Well, I suppose there CAN be the teeniest bit of satisfaction knowing that despite the smear job, you managed to raise money for the server ... plus a bit extra ... in a little over a day and a half. Little by little, a bit at a time, but obviously, a bunch of people  couldn't give a shite about old news or paysites boycotting you, or whatever crap was flung around over the last year or so.

Sigh. But I suppose a naysayer would claim that there are just thousands of sheep out there. Or that everyone who contributed was ignorant, misled, or thoroughly infatuated with you. Or something.  

Whatever.

...or that the donation money actually wont go towards what we said it was for... which I found utterly incredulous.

The donation drive was a great success and a nice suprise, and then some moron comes along and decides to put thier 2 cents in and pisses me off.

Whatever.

People donate because without MTS2, this community would never have gotten this far.

The people that call MTS2 their home have shaped the entire game experience with making custom content better, keeping the game popular, bringing in big money for EA.

Not to mention, I can say that every creator in this community has MTS2 to thank for all the information, the research, the knowledge, the tools and the help to create. Free and pay.

I could say that TSR would never have become what they are now without the help of what is on MTS2.

It is pathetic, unbelievably ungrateful, and petty to slap all the people on MTS2 in the face like that.

Not just Delphy, but people like Numenor, Wes_H, Dr_Pixel, Echo, and dozens of other master creator and modder I forgot.

People who provided
- the tools for sims 2 custom meshes, continuesly fixing, updating, helping, supporting the people using these for absolutely free.
- modding the sims 2 into something that suits the public more, adding customizations to make the game more appealing to the players.
- sharing information so freely, that the whole community has benefited
- the research, trials, programming, modding, sweat blod and tears that were needed to provide everyone with new mods, new hacks, new tools, continueesly
- offering a place to share your stuff if you can't have a website.

When I look at mts2 I don't see Delphy (not meant negatively), I see a huge group of people sharing knowledge, work, tools, and the website for 100% free.

But you're not supposed to have an opinion. You're supposed to do your job in promoting the Sims 2 and then shut the hell up.

Thanks for making that clear, EA. It doesn't matter what a site has done for the community, the preference seems to be sites that commercialize the community and promote the Sims 2 in a more vulgair way.

Capitalism at it's worst, money before everything.


Conclusion: People should keep in mind that allmost every piece of custom content in their game exists thanks to the people at MTS2, before they dismiss ModTheSims 2 because they have some sort of 'Delphy tunnelvision'.

Thanks Nouk.  

Conclusion: People suck.  They can go die in a fire.

Hang in there Delphy we love you.    :cry:  :)

*passes rum to Delphy* Well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it: fuck 'em, feed 'em beans. We owe alot to MTS 2, and I'm never gonna say otherwise. You've done a hell of a job, weathered too much shit, and through it all, kept the site going. You have my respect and that's not something many people get. Keep it up and if they get out of hand, let me at them with my sledge hammer, that's all I ask... or my sense of humour, that's been called a weapon in and of itself... Just ask HideTheRum!  :twisted:

Presented for free by the Save a Bitchy Pirate Foundation.

I think that the donation drive was a success speaks volumes.  More people care about ModTheSims2 than don't, and those people don't listen to smear campaigns, greedy paysite owners or ignorant whackjobs.  We're a bit too intelligent for all that muck.

4,000+ dollars in a day and a half is a remarkable accomplishment and shows more than anything else just what this community can do together.  Modders, recolorers and downloaders alike joined together-including me.  I have contributed to both drives over there recently-and I might not have if it wasn't for the stupid smear campaign.  But after all that crap, I made it a point to donate.   Fuck those people and fuck you too.  

So, Delphy, one good thing came about from all that.  It got at least one person to contribute.

I agree with absolutely everything that Nouk said in her last post, and it is sad, sad, sad that some people - including EA -  forget the contribution that everybody at MTS2 has made - and is still making every day - to the whole community.

Don't know if I have enough rum for all of MTS2, but here's a few bottles for Delphy to take back with him. *hands over a case*

As always, Nouk has an almost eerie ability to say what I want to say before I knew I wanted to say it. Thanks!
And all my rum to Delphy! Err...well, technically not all of it...  :D

At the BBS, when people ask 'where can I find...'
almost 99% of the time is: go to MTS2

that speaks volumes about what people see as the top site!


And if paysites are really caring about 'the community', and yes I am including TSR, then all their crapola arguments are just that: crap.

MTS2 has shown that a free site CAN get by on donations freely given, so hidden goodies for dough, no subs.

So donations only CAN work for a site.  This was proven again.

So paysites, whats your argument about being true donation-only now?
It cant be for 'the community', the community stepped up and covered the costs for the site.
I guess its just all about the money isnt it, and not the people at all?

As someone who almost died in a fire years ago, I can assure you that this is not a fun way to go.

So, yeah. Apt punishment. But anyways, it's the BBS. If a thread started there that wasn't full of idiocy, I'd be shocked.

Hey Delphy don't let any stupid fucktard ruin for you the success of the MTS2 donation drive, such a totally deserved huge success should have sites like TSR (and EA, which I blame for its  ambiguous positions) rot in shame forever and ever...



As for this


Why yes a very lethal weapon indeed! I kid you not, I almost choked to death recently due to bursting into laughter over one of this lady's amazing posts - and now she won't stop making fun of me :lol:

I forgot to mention that, but Nouk said it all. I wouldn't know as much about stuff if MTS2 didn't exist to have any tutorials.  Yes, Nouk is amazing and helped a lot, but a lot of that was also through pointing me toward tutorials and posts at MTS2, including getting things like the ever-so-valuable plugins, and example bodies/faces, etc.

We rely on MTS2 for more than just downloads.

Shit. Where would ANY of us be without MTS2? There wouldn't BE a fan community without it....no recolors...no creative building...none of the 'basics' everybody's got in their game.

I've written a letter to EA (copied to a handful of departments) expressing my own outrage at this egregious error. Whether or not Legal is going to dictate the sites on the fansite listing...some idiot Maxoid, in their eagerness to promote TSR, has made a HUGE error in judgment.

When do these new rules go into effect?
http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=241670
Somebody either didn't read the rules or is just not paying attention to them. They used a pay hair in screenshots. A pay hair from TSR. :lol:

Hebucus what email addreesses are you sending to/snail mail? Could you please post them?

Electronic Arts Inc.
209 Redwood Shores Parkway
Redwood City, CA 94065
United States      

You could send it to your regional EA (go to ea.com and follow links to company information), but the Sims Group is headquartered in California.

Can't say I blame 'em.  Remembering which of my crap is pay and which isn't is hard sometimes.

As I was discussing with someone on the TS2 LJ community, we'll probably see a trend of either less creators posting at MTS2 (several I spoke to have said, right or not, the new rules are too difficult) or creators removing all custom content except their new stuff when making their screen shots.

I've created this as a quick reference for pay/free hair: http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Hair_Gallery

... not done, obviously, but it's coming along.

If you see something with pay hair you can report it (with a link to the pay hair along with it, please) - it's impossible to know -every- hair out there and especially TSR stuff we're probably not as familiar with.

It's really, really not hard to change your sim into Maxis or free hair when taking pics - it's about what you're uploading, not the other stuff in the pics, anyway.  It's something people are gonna have to get used to... we're used to people getting upset because we're trying to set a higher standard, and they'll continue to do so for one thing or another.  *shrug*

1)  It is not hard, but it is a pain.
2)  Maxis hairs are ugly.
3)  A lot of it is about the other stuff in the pics.  It even says in the creator guidelines and everything that your pics sell your creations, and having other pretty things surrounding your creations helps.
4)  In spite of these, I still think it's a good move.  Not as good as going all-out with the pirateness (pfft, you people and your "high ground"), but good nonetheless.

And that hair gallery looks great!  I like the format you've chosen.

HP that's fantastic. Do realise you're just making hair shopping easier for everyone?
*Cpt Fs gushes at HP*
Have some of my special homemade rum.

Plum - Eh, it's a minimal pain.  2 minutes at the mirror.  Nothing compared to load times and setting up for pics, posing, cropping, etc...  and I didn't say JUST Maxis hairs but also free hairs - of which there are tons, quite pretty and nice, and look plenty purtiful to show off whatever you've made.  ;)

Cap'n Feathersword - Tee hee, I'd prefer gin but I'll take what I can get.  :D

At least one of my models remains in tact.

(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r131/plumsims/hurrah.jpg)

Mmm...  Virtual boy candy.

We're pirates. There is no gin. Or vodka. or tequilla, bourbon, or rye. And let's not even mention lagers, ales, zinfandels, or merlots.

There is only rum.

And grog at Christmastime.

(It's like the Rule of Six for alcoholic beverages...there is no 13, there is no gin.)

Psh, well, can I be, uhm... the Designated... Navigator?  Wheel... person... One what stays sober and drives the ship when the rest of you lot are drunk on all that nasty rum.

Just take a swig. You won't know what you're drinking after the first mouthful.
We don't need a sober helmsman, it doesn't matter if we crash.
*stumbles away singing off-key*

The gallery is awesome, HP! I'm not a creator, but I do love finding new (free!) hair.

Rum is terribly nasty, but it does the job. There was a great mix I had once: coconut rum with pineapple juice. There might've been some tropical punch in there too, but I can't remember.

Bah, now my uploads are being rejected because censoring the pay items from the screenshots I had already made isn't good enough.  I gave my models pretty black afros and everything!

Forget it.  It seems like these new rules are making things harder on the creators than the paysites.

And you can say "it's not that hard to make new ones" all you want, but it just isn't worth that much effort to me at this point.

Plum, you have great creations.  I hope you will still upload them somewhere else.

Thank you.  I probably will.  :)  I've never though about uploading anywhere else before.  Would Insim be a good place to do so?  They seem to be the second biggest site.

Also, as part of this discussion going on in the LiveJournal communities, I've been thinking that this new rule has the potential to hurt the anti-paysite cause in the long run.  Free items from paysites are still allowed, so instead of Johnny Noob saying "Hey, where can I get that hair?" and me saying "PMBD!" Johnny Noob is going to go to Peggy's site and get it for free, then see that she has a billion other hairs for sale for the low low price of your soul.  And the poor newbie sap wont even realize they're poor quality because MTS2 has kept him out of the loop.

Or am I wrong?  Or has someone already said this?  This thread is liek tl;dr.

I think Insim would be a good site to upload to. I check Insim everyday to see if they have new uploads.
I also agree with you. I think it was better the way MTS2 had it the first time, letting posters comment with the PMBD link.

Thing is, we see a difference between free content and pay.  This entire "war" isn't actually about destroying paysites, is it? It's about getting the content for free.  

It is my opinion that pay-content-hosted-for-free actually doesn't send the right message - and that free content is the thing to target.  Just becuase that content is hosted on a site that has other pay or donation content really doesn't factor in that much.  

So, as I said, it's about the content and if all the content in the community is offered for free in the first place then we have won, haven't we?  (Note I said offered for free in the first place becuase then it's the creators or sites choice to give it for free, which is still important)

However, if you feel that paysites and all content on paysites, regardless of if that content is free or not, should be destroyed, then fine, be it on your own head.  But we aren't gonna change the rules on MTS2 anytime soon. :)

You can't have it both ways.  I think the stand MTS2 made within the community sends a very big message to a lot of people.  Including paysites.  You can't say that we are a free site and advertise for paysites, that makes no sense whatsoever.  

Does it cause you inconvenience?  Sorry.  I mean, you really have to choose "your battles".  What is your objective?  Do you want content for free provided to the community?  It has to start somewhere.  Growing pains of any kind hurt, change is not easy.  Bitching and moaning about the "way it used to be" will keep you exactly where you are and going nowhere.

So, how about YOU support the community back.  How about you support MTS2 the same way they support, oh I don't know how many, creators as well as this community?  I'm sorry if I sound pissed off, I am.  No decision will please everyone.  Either you try to make the best of it and change and grow, or you leave and go a different direction.  Loyalty is extremely important to me, how about you?  It's like working for the Red Cross wearing a McDonald's uniform.

I think you've forgotten which site you're posting at.  xD

But I don't see how what you're saying addresses my concern--if you allow free content from paysites, paysites are still being advertised.  You may be directly promoting their free content, but the result is the same, and without the benefit of being able to tell people they can still get the stuff without paying for it.

It's my opinion that pay-content-hosted-for-free does send the right message--that being that we love the stuff, we just think it's inappropriate to charge for it.

Unfortunately, I don't run the site so my opinion means jack.  All I can do is poo-poo the idea.

Also, armywife...  Uhh...  I'm sure you're great and all, but your emotional appeal is all but lost on the likes of me.

Though I may disagree with you Plum, you can't blame a gal for trying.

I think it sends a different message if you use all free content, that being that there are just as many wonderful creations available for free as there are pay.  The misconception that plagues this community, me included when I was first exposed to it, was that because it costs money that it must be better.  That really isn't true at all.  I for one have asked WCIF an item that was in a picture only to discover it was a pay item.  In my pre-booty days, that is, and it was frustrating.  However, I was usually able to find something similiar and usually something I actually liked better once I looked.

That's a point I can agree with.  I want to reiterate that I don't think this new rule is all bad, I just think there's more potential for suck than there is for strawberry goodness.

I agree with Plum.  I think it sends out the wrong message to be able to show a Peggy "free" hair, have everyone ask "oooh where did you get that COOOL looking hair?" and sending them off to Peggy.

This DOES still give "free advertising" to paysites, because as Plum said, we'd be sending them off to Peggy, and they will take one look at the pay hairs and want to subscribe.  They won't know of all the problems with Peggy hairs, nor will they know the alternatives (i.e. Booty, fixed meshes available elsewhere, etc) until they subscribe to Peggy, find out most of her hairs like to cut off the Sim's head, then feel bad about wasting their money on a subscription.

I agree with armywife in sending out the message that there are "many wonderful creations available for free" - I just don't think that showing a Peggy or Rose hair actually sends out that message.  It shows you can use "decent, but kinda crappy hairs for free, or pay to get the "better" ones" - and they won't know they can get the Pay ones at PMBD to see them in all their shittiness first.

And to Delphy - this site is kind of about destroying paysites yes; however, the point is that people cannot charge for custom content.  I don't see how "pay content hosted for free" sends out the wrong message.  I think it bolsters the message that they should not be charging for content in the first place, so we've taken it upon ourselves to provide for people what they should already be getting for free.

That's my two cents, and then some.

Renegade - I see and appreciate what you are saying.  But Delphy has to be fair and do what he feels is in the best interest of MTS2.  He and all the mods made these decisions.  I don't want damn stupid Peggy and her gappy hair to get any more money.  

I think, in my humble opinion, that what it is stating is that if you have free items, they are welcome.  Parsiminous did the very same thing.  Their finds section is no different in its policy.  MTS2 is attempting to create an all free community.  Maybe the sites that have pay content will see that without all the recolors available in the community, that they are limited in the pay items and getting anything else but what the paysite offers.  Maybe this will encourage more paysites to liberate items so they can be used and posted and downloaded and recolored.

Hell, I don't know.  I just think that you have to see that what MTS2 is promoting are free items and in a way that a paysite can't argue that they are being treated unfairly, all they have to do is provide items for free and they can be splashed all over MTS2.  PMBD may not have been well known a year or even 6 months ago, but we are getting the word out and more and more are downloading from the booty.  Before we condemn, couldn't we give it a chance?  That's really all I am saying.  

BTW, loved your men's clothing, you might have missed my note in the thread, but your creations rock - seriously rock!

armywife, either you're missing our point entirely or you just don't see it as a problem.  Allowing the free items from the paysites advertises for the paysites just as much as if the pay items were allowed also.  And, if you're just promoting their free items whilte ignoring their pay items entirely, the uninformed wont know any better and will likely end up subscribing to these sites.

If you don't want damn stupid Peggy and her gappy hair to get any more money then you should either (a) not advertise her site at all or (b) advertise that her items should not be paid for, and are available for free.

:oops:  Thank you!~ After your posting and some others, I felt really good about it and I do have plans to make more male clothing, but I can't say when I'll get that done since I have no clue.

I do like MTS2's new rules, I do like what they're offering.  I'm just saying with a site like Peggy or Rose, they should maybe have the same policy as they do for TSR.

I don't think Peggy or Rose really care if they're splashed over MTS2 or not, and I sincerely doubt they'll be inspired to make more things free.  It's unfortunate, but I think it's true.

I guess if people showed a free peggy hair, and someoen asked "where do i get that", the person could answer by saying "You can get it at PeggySims, but if you look at anything Pay, go to PMBD for it" and explain why or something.  Of cousre, then that would be upon the creator to do so, and they may not even know about PMBD.

Peggy is evil.

ETA: Plum said it all for me lol

No, Plum, I do get the point.  I just look at it from other points of view and my opinion differs from yours where MTS2 is concerned.

If you're implying that I haven't looked at other points of view, you're wrong.  I started out thinking it was a great move, but the more I think about it, the more flaws I see.

I don't think your opinion differs from me all that much.  I still think MTS2 is the best Sims site there is.  It's a ton of stuff 100% free all the time, and that's a lot of work for them.  I just don't always agree with the rules.  Do you see me rebelling or throwing a fit?  No.  I'm just stating my thoughts on it.

Okay, I have an example that may not be necessary but I want to do this anyway.

Let's say someone at MTS2 makes a creation for a sim swimsuit and in their preview picture, the sim is wearing a "free" Peggy hair.

User1 downloads but asks "Where do I get this hair?"
Creator: Oh, you can get that at Peggysims, there's a LOT of hair there! :)
User1: omg kewl thx!!!111

User1 heads over to Peggysims, and at the very front of their page, they see the latest PAY updates first, then the free ones at the bottom.  They download the free hair, but decide to go check out the Pay section, because they don't know PMBD even exists.

They see this hair. (http://memberarea.peggysims2.net/jsp/zoom.jsp?img=h_wfa_0046_b.jpg)  They think to themselves: "OMG THAT IZSO AMAZING!!!!!! MUST HAVE!"  And they go look at all the other hairs, and decide "YES PEGGY GETZ ALL MAI MONIEZ" And go maybe beg parents for paypal/monies/whatever to help pay for Peggy's porche.

Anyway, they pay, download, and instead of a nice pretty hair, they get this instead (http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u140/RenegadeSims/snapshot_52f37584_332b6ec1.jpg).

Now they are traumatized for life because they just witnessed their Sim's head detach when they crossed their arms, but also because they wasted money on a month subscription to Peggy - or worse, MORE than a month.

All because of a free Peggy hair that was shown in the first place, and no information available on what to do about not wasting your money on her "gorgeous" pay hairs.

I will admit I was once a victim of Peggy, and I really do not want to see it happen to others.  I just don't care.  Peggy should be banned from life.

Hey Plum, I wasn't being bitchy at you.  There will always be flaws, nothing is perfect - ok maybe I'm perfect. :wink:  I respect what you have to say and I do see why you feel the way you do.  

I think I'll excuse myself from the discussion.  I am not a creator so I guess my opinion really isn't one that counts anyway.  I don't have to deal with the rules, so it doesn't affect me.  I was just stating my thoughts as well.  I guess at one point I thought you were implying I was stupid and not able to understand.  So, if I offended you, I am sorry because that is not what I was trying to do at all.  K?

I'm going to step in and try to become peacemaker.

I don't think AW was trying to imply you weren't seeing other views, Plum. I think she was simply stating that she has different views about it than you.
I understand where you BOTH are coming from.
With Delphy, he is more concerned with free content, not destroying the paysites. Earlier in this thread *i believe it was this one* he stated that pretty plainly. And then someone commented to him that he should remeber where he was posting.
 :lol: I thought it was funny.
Anyway. Considering HIS feelings on the subject, what he is doing makes sense. And all AW was saying is that she understood why HE felt the way he did. I don't even think she was really agreeing with him, just with the fact that what he is doing makes sense considering the stance he has chosen in this war against paysites.

But, I don't feel he's taken the right stance, and obviously, niether do you, Plum.
And that's alright. We don't have to agree with everthing Delphy does with MTS2. But considering all he's done for the community, and even if you DO think his rules are shady or wrong, he does deserve the respect to atleast decide them on his own.
I don't think that showing ANY paysite content is right for MTS2, whether its free or not, really.
But I understand that all Delphy is trying to do is promote the FREE sections and creations on these sites.
He might inadvertantly be advertising for the pay, yes, but that's where PSMD comes in. Just get the word out there and then they can come here when they want the pay stuff.

I hope that helps!!!

Restating the last few posts of this thread did not help, no, but I appreciate your effort nonetheless.  <3

LOL ry, you didn't read the FAAAAAAAQQQQZZZZZZZ ur in trouble now  :shock: lol


I had to, ry, I just had to  :lol:

Well, Plum. I try my best.
But, tbh, that last part...Hope that helps...wasn't addressed to you. :D

And gahdammit, i can't believe i misspled an acronim.
lol
PMBD. PMBD.
Man I hope Hecubus doesn't put me in the brig.

 :lol:

I don't think MTS2 would be adverse to creator feedback, especially PMBDers.

Sometimes a policy seems airtight, but has loopholes or flaws that only become apparent after the policy is given a trial run.

Perhaps they chose not to link to the booty payfiles because we do release files once creators go free, which does occasionally occur (but not often enough).

How would the policy be improved? Perhaps we can hash out some suggestions and offer them to MTS2 as a gesture of support and goodwill for their efforts to promote only freesites.

Personally, I think obliterating pay items with censor bars sounds like a fair compromise as long as the offered objects are clearly visible. Another option might be headless Sims, in the case of clothing.

Thoughts?

I don't think censoring pay items addresses the main issue, but I do think it's a reasonable thing to allow creators to do.  I was disappointed to think that my screenshots I had made some time ago, which I put a lot of effort into (too much, admittedly) would not be allowed at MTS2.  I thought censoring them was a good compromise, but they were rejected anyway.

I don't really have a problem with keeping pay stuff out of my screenshots in the future, but I do still think it's unreasonable to reject screenshots because of the censoring, especially since heavily photoshopped screenshots are allowed.

As for a suggestion that addresses the main issue, I've already given the ones I can think of: either don't advertise paysites at all, not even their free stuff, or advertise that their pay items should not be paid for and are available for free.  I'm not very creative I suppose, but at least it's straight-forward.

Heavily photoshopped screenshots that obscure the item in question, or are so altered (with censoring, filtering, etc.) that the alteration is distracting and detracts from the item in question would not be allowed.

Asking where someone got suchandsuch hair (or whatever else) is not allowed in the threads anymore, either... mainly because it's downright rude to just post "Hay where did u get that hair???" on someone's upload when they've spent a long time on what they've actually -made-.  People can still ask in PMs and if the PMer wants to go, "Oh, that hair is by Peggy, here's her site (link) - which has some pay hair, which you can get at PMBD (link)" that's up to them.

We're trying to promote -free content- and if paysites want to make free content, great.  We'd love for them to be completely free, but we're not going to stop people from using the free items because other ones are pay.  Just like we're not going to stop doing finds of free content from sites that have pay content for the S2C Finds.

What you see is what you should be able to get without paying.  That's it.

What I would rather see, personally, is uploaders - and free site owners - putting somewhere prominently on their site or upload, "Hey, if you appreciate all this pretty free content and want to see the Sims 2 community free and full of hugs and puppies, don't pay for Sims 2 content!  Support 100% free sites with voluntary donations!"  Promote a culture in which John Q.  Everysimmer, upon finding Peggy's site, would go, "Wait, they want money for this?  That's ridiculous!"

... which, in addition to the WYSIWYCGWP (what you see is what you can get without paying) factor, is part of the speechifying site newses' message.

This sounds awfully like an Inge policy.
It's a nice idea to promote only free items but isn't that how a lot of paysites "bait" us?

Other than instances where the alteration covers the item itself, I don't think it's appropriate for MTS2 staff to make that call.  I would argue that Bruno's presentation heavily detracts from the item in question, but because it looks good, it goes on by.  As long as the item is presented unaltered, why should it matter whether you think the alterations to the picture are good or bad?

I'm not saying you don't have the right to make that call, I just think it's rude.

Anyway,  the whole new policy thing is a very nice idea, but the cynic (and/or realist) in me prevails.  Repeating the goal doesn't make the likely flaws go away.  As Captain Feathersword said, isn't posting free items how a lot of paysites bait us to begin with?

But I appreciate your hard work and positivity nonetheless.  :cake:

I actually agree with what MTS are doing.. but I relate why both approached are important back to my own history in left wing protest groups in the 80's and 90's.. And I apologise if I bore anyone.

One thing you learn from watching social change in action is that you need two types of radicals.. You need the type that get in people's faces, yell, and confront their assumptions. If you don't get these types of radicals, the change never start to happen because people never see a reason. I relate you guys back to being these types of radicals in the context

Then once these radicals have raised it as an issue, you get the other type moving in. You get people like Delphy and sites like MTS who move in and translate that information in a way that most people can cope with.. it's like a trade unionist putting on a suit.. Once the first type of radical has changed people's minds, usually the second type finds a way to translate that into laws   and change on a more structured level.

For myself, I think it's a question of "you get what you focus on".. It's not like it was six or twelve months ago where about the only people who were doing hair were the pay creators. For about every peice of paid content there's an equally good free item.. and if you can't find it, you make it. It's still important to make that stuff available for free so it undercuts the paysites (and annoys the hell of them  :lol: ).. but in the longterm what you also want is to cut off their avenues to have their stuff seen. You want to make the free stuff the dominant choice.

So I support what Delphy is doing.. But I can understand you not liking change Plum, it's human nature to find change uncomfortable..

And again, I apologise if I bored anyone..

While I support MTS2 policy change I hadn't thought of that point. It doesn't affect me much because normally in upload pics I use only free stuff and since it's generally only hair I use I often give list of credits. Because where did you get that hair comments drive me insane.

However I don't want to advertise even in the most round about way for pay items so if I use hair from Raon,Peggy etc. I guess I'll be leaving out the credit links and reply to any pm's I get asking about them with links to the free hair plus the booty link. Hmm wanders off to compose a standardised fill in the spaces reply for when I next upload.



Also a good idea. I'd better finish my next project so I can put it into practise. :lol:

I personally don't really care one way or the other about this policy change. I quit creating for MTS2 a long time ago because I don't have the time to make sure I've complied with every little rule they have. It stopped being fun and I found myself spending more time on rules than creating. I understand the push for quality and I am apparently not the sort of creator they're after. That's ok. My stuff was crap anyhow. I do think its important not to showcase pay items but I do think the policy  should be extended to free items from paysites. If they don't want to advertise for paysites then don't. period. It will stifle the creativity of the artists to a certain extent but that wont matter much since MTS2 has become a repository for the genaric and mundane . They seem to have lost that creative spark from the early days. There's very little unique content coming out of that community any more. I don't think this policy will change that.

I believe Angha Tyl sums it up quite nicely.
MTS is a big site, with a lot of staff, about half of which doesn't morally agree with what PMBD is doing. I believe Calalily said somewhere up there that you can be pro-free but  not necessarily pro-booty.
In a way, we can't afford to be radical. The idea of pirates and the booty scares a lot of ordinary simmers that have no time to contemplate all this, it also scares quite a few creators. There have to be ways to support free content, without being in your face about it. Otherwise, a lot of people would be scared off, and we don't want them running into the nice cosy world that is TSR, now do we?
If you see the radical reactions of some to allowing PMBD links in siggies (I've seen delphy called the head of the terrorist organisation, for christ's sake), you can guess that we need to take small steps, one at a time.
There needs to be more than two parties. Sure, some paysite fanatics will lump every pro-free site in with the pirates, but most will see different shades of grey. I hope i'm not offending anyone when i say that PMBD is a bit more radical in it's politics. But MTS is first and foremost a free downloadsite. It's sole purpose is not to destroy paysites.

We've discussed this change among staff for a very long time. And the thought of banning paysites has arisen. The problem is, where do you draw the line? Places like XM Sims and Around the Sims have tons of good content, but also a few donation sets. Would we dismiss ALL of them? Or arbitrarily block the ones that are deemed evil?
By focusing on the content, and not the sites, we're promoting free content. Anyone willing to be advertised will notice that recolours and pictures of free stuff goes on mts2, and will, hopefully, make more free stuff.

Oh, it's so nice to know I'm not yelling into the abyss.

I think that the policy is the right one.  If MTS2 had adopted a pro-booty stance, all the paysites would be able to say "oh they're only the best because they do it off our backs".  Now they have to keep their mouths shut - because they're not included.

You make a really good point here.  I tend to think of things in as either black or white and forget about the gray areas.

Thank you for totally belittling everything I said.

Anyway, I'm open to seeing whether or not this new policy works out, but my concerns remain.

Plum I'm sorry if you felt belittled in any way.. I'm glad you're open to seeing  how everything pans out.

As does mine, Plum. My opinion mirrors yours, and it's definitely not a matter of being uncomfortable about change, really. God knows I would completely approve a change way more radical than that. I appreciate the new step forward that this change means, but I still think the only way to fight the plague of pay stuff and ultimately destroy paysites is to cut them out entirely, to isolate them.

The thing is, Delphy is very clear about the fact that destroying paysites is not his or his site's goal, while ours is precisely that. He honestly believes, if I understood correctly, that by targeting just the free items of the paysites, paysites will hopefully end up weakened to the point where all pay creators eventually go free, while I, as optimistic as I am - and I really am one :wink: - can't bring myself to think it'll work.

The way things are, all new rules and changes included in the picture, I just fear it won't be enough, and in fact I fear the already very well explained by others collateral effect of the newest simmers being involuntarily pushed into the charming world of pay content without even the chance to know better. I've been playing the game since the Sims 1, but up until last December I didn't even know about the concept of "community", I couldn't care less about forums, I would just download stuff from lots of sites until one day, by mere accident, I kind of stumbled upon the free vs pay issue here at PMBD. I stopped by and got involved only because (a) I had always firmly refused to even think about paying for sims stuff and (b, but most importantly) because the issue was approached here in a black and white, no bullshit, matter-of-factly manner, and that's precisely what got my attention. If it wasn't for that, I probably would have gone on simply playing the game without giving a rat's ass about anything else. It may sound bad, but how many people just ignore the community and everything that goes on on forums like I used to? MTS2 believes in sort of educating people, a concept I totally admire, it's just that considering all the mindless players out there, in my opinion more radical tactics would prove more successful in reaching our common target - all content in the community all free for everyone.

But hey, I'll definitely be crossing fingers and doing my best to support MTS2, hoping things will turn out great.