The real cost...results might suprise you

[vikitty]

Most of it's up there already; I think someone else (other than me) is keeping track of it.

[deelink]

Well... you guys been over at ats2 lately?

It's pretty bad speed wise.
I've never donated and probably should have considering the list of people I had donated to before. She is a lesser evil in comparison.

Still I am a cynical creature and can only wonder about the skidding speed of her site the moment she got angry about 1 in 100 people donating, blah blah, not good enough, blah blah.

Meh.

[vikitty]

Well... you guys been over at ats2 lately?

It's pretty bad speed wise.
I've never donated and probably should have considering the list of people I had donated to before. She is a lesser evil in comparison.

Still I am a cynical creature and can only wonder about the skidding speed of her site the moment she got angry about 1 in 100 people donating, blah blah, not good enough, blah blah.

Meh.

Really? I can download an entire update using the zip in about 30s. Some of the most recent updates have been smallish though; guess it really is sucking up her bandwidth as she's claiming.

[deelink]

Ah she's back to being fast.

I wonder if people started throwing money at her again

or she fixed her server or something

Well...either way...

*still cynical*

 :twisted:

[liegenschonheit]

I never said I approve of ATS, just that I consider it a lesser evil. I mean, yes, I consider a paysite a paysite, lets not mince words. However, I just don't rate all offenders the same. I guess part of it is because I like to think that Peggy and TSR have a special place in hell for being such terrible people, and there has to be people that are lesser to make them the MOST EVIL!!!

It is still bad, but I guess it's like this. All people who are convicted of crimes are criminals (theoretically anyway). However, the kid who shoplifts isn't the same level of criminal as the murderer. We still have to spank the kid's ass for stealing, but we aren't going to consider him the same kind of monster as the murderer. It's kind of like that, for me.

And no, before anyone who reads this goes to vilify me on TSR or some other shitty place, I am not really saying that running a paysite is as bad as murdering someone. It's simply an analogy that I thought apt to illustrate my point.

[deelink]

Well... if you want money for stuff you have no right to be selling

You're still a crook.

That has been the mentality here for awhile now.

ATS, Holy Simoly... the "lesser evil" still want money. It's supposed to be a hobby right? If they can no longer support their hobby they can upload to Mod the Sims 2 or Nouk will be happy to host their sparse files and the graveyard will take the archival rest.

Sims File Vault can also be an alternative. You want to keep going and have your own domain all nice like.. then ask for donations but don't get all shirty when they don't come. Pay up or ship out to other servers.

It's a freakin' hobby, its not supposed to feed your starving chilluns.
And if the pirates are keeping the paysite owners from crusin' along... then suck it up. Free content for all! Arr!

[liegenschonheit]

*shrug*

That may be the common consensus here at Pescado Land, but I can still have my own opinions and ideas. I know that Blue Soup (who I also don't believe has failed us ) agreed with the idea that some are worse than others far before she and Pescado founded this place. I do agree that booty is booty and that everything you have to actually pay for should end up there, hence why I am here, and why I've been on board for this from the very beginning.

To paraphrase what I said before: Of course they are all wrong for selling paysite content, I don't contest that one iota. Every single one belongs in the booty with no exceptions. I still think there are varying degrees of wrongness, which does not excuse anyone, but separates the mildly evil, and perhaps still redeemable, from the big gaping flesh wound of evil that are TSR and Peggy.

Put another way: I want all paysites to go free, that is the ultimate goal. However, in my mind there is definitely a hierarchy in which I want them to fall. TSR and Peggy first for their terrible quality and the way they seek to milk every cent out of the community that they can. Then sites that are in it predominately for the money and don't even pretend to have any decent free comment (Exnem, for example), and then the smaller sites with only a few pay downloads.

[Harlock]

I am sorry but I do not think we should group TSR and Peggy outside the "subscription paysite".

TSR is run by a company, if you look at their staff page you can see how many people are being employed to just run it.

Peggy on the other hand is pretty much one person show, we might not like her (even if she did some interesting things on TS days) but at least its not a school of remoras as TSR is.

Also TSR did some rather ... unethical things during the first days as MTS2 established itself (I remember those), even SimFreaks that are as much to blame as TSR in the state of affairs and operates in a similar fashion cannot be put on the same level as TSR.

[vikitty]

TSR is the worst kind of evil because 99% of the shit there is awful.

[de Pommes]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon that started this website. Y'know, the ol' "all paysites suck" schtick.

I'm not going to pass judgment on people who happen to have paid for donation items at some point. The booty didn't always exist, after all. And some of us were not aware of the option of booty. HOWEVER, to say, "well, some paysites suck less than others!" is pointless. Why? Because all paysites suck. They suck because they are trying to get you to pay for something that should be free.

Over-all Point #1: Lay off the people who have paid for donation items. Unless they're justifying doing it now. In which case, verbal thrash away.

Over-all Point #2: If you have the booty and know of the booty, what the fiddle-sticks are you doing still giving these jerks your money? (Obvious exceptions are people who are checkbook martyrs and give their money to paysites so we all can have them free of cost. These individuals deserve to be high-fived, and possibly sexually pleasured by a phsycailly attractive celebrity of their choice.)

I've hated lesser-of-two-evilism since 2004. It doesn't matter if somebody sucks less than somebody else, suckitude is suckitude, and should be discouraged. If they're such an awesome person, why the heddle-hay aren't they making their stuff for free, eh?

DONE WITH THIS NOVEL. I got to go buy my cats food before they eat me.

[liegenschonheit]

That's fine, we can agree to disagree on this one small thing, since we are all working for the same cause. But please, if we are going to do this, don't give me this "what started this website" business, because if I recall correctly, I was here and you guys were not. Blue Soup had just as large a hand in creating this site as Pescado, he provided the space and she (with the help of many other generous people, I might add) initially provided all the booty that everyone loves so much. And she and Pescado disagreed on this subject as well. They didn't let it stop them from making the site though, did they?

And really, where do you think all the booty comes from?? Of course people are still giving money to paysites for the items we have. And you know, it was once the responsibility of everyone in the filesharing community to help pay for shared items, not just a few "checkbook martyrs". Of course, that was back when we were all underground and people like most of you had no idea we existed. So yes, quite a few of us have no problem saying that we have and would pay for items, since we shared it freely. In my opinion, those of you that love the booty but would never dream about taking on any of the cost should thank your lucky stars that there are those of us that will. I'm not saying to kiss anyone's ass, but think twice before reaming people for having paid for items.

I'm sorry if that came off as being a bit bitchy, it kind of gets under my skin when people assume that there is only one right way to do this anti-paysite-filesharing business, since people have been successfully doing it way before Pes came on board. His contribution is by no means insignificant, since he took all the heat when he went public, but his opinion is not the alpha and the omega

[de Pommes]

That's fine, we can agree to disagree on this one small thing, since we are all working for the same cause. But please, if we are going to do this, don't give me this "what started this website" business, because if I recall correctly, I was here and you guys were not. Blue Soup had just as large a hand in creating this site as Pescado, he provided the space and she (with the help of many other generous people, I might add) initially provided all the booty that everyone loves so much. And she and Pescado disagreed on this subject as well. They didn't let it stop them from making the site though, did they?

And really, where do you think all the booty comes from?? Of course people are still giving money to paysites for the items we have. And you know, it was once the responsibility of everyone in the filesharing community to help pay for shared items, not just a few "checkbook martyrs". Of course, that was back when we were all underground and people like most of you had no idea we existed. So yes, quite a few of us have no problem saying that we have and would pay for items, since we shared it freely. In my opinion, those of you that love the booty but would never dream about taking on any of the cost should thank your lucky stars that there are those of us that will. I'm not saying to kiss anyone's ass, but think twice before reaming people for having paid for items.

I'm sorry if that came off as being a bit bitchy, it kind of gets under my skin when people assume that there is only one right way to do this anti-paysite-filesharing business, since people have been successfully doing it way before Pes came on board. His contribution is by no means insignificant, since he took all the heat when he went public.

I'm not hating on anyone here. I know I haven't been here as long as, well, a bunch of people. Never, ever, would I claim otherwise. I've a lot of respect for any and all who had a hand in building this awesome community. Sorry if I implied otherwise. But I do not think that this means my opinion counts for less. if this was the point that was being made, I resent it.

I'm just saying, what I got out of the FAQ and the vast majority of posts was that Paysites suck. What got under my skin was the whole "some suck less than others" idea. Which sure, is true. But that isn't the point. I don't think anyone should give money for pixels, regardless of how nice the creator is.

An exception was made to the people who give money to donate to the booty in my post! OBSERVE:

(Obvious exceptions are people who are checkbook martyrs and give their money to paysites so we all can have them free of cost. These individuals deserve to be high-fived, and possibly sexually pleasured by a phsycailly attractive celebrity of their choice.)

(lol @ my typo.)

My whole "stop giving money to the paysites" spiel was aimed purely at people who give money and do not donate to the booty. This was off of the observation made on some posts in this thread. If I was mistaken in reading that there were people who did this, please forgive my mistake.

BUT if the issues with my post was my opinion, I'm not apologizing. Regardless of Blue Soup and Pescado's varying opinions on the matter & their subsequent ability to make the site despite it, I do still hold the right to voice my own. Even if I didn't have a hand in creating the site, and only joined a few months ago (as is the case).

[liegenschonheit]

Nah, that post wasn't aimed directly at you, just venting in your general direction. Don't take it personally.

I get a tad frustrated sometimes is all, and me being here longer than any other particular person really is neither here nor there, except when people assume they know all the exact whys and wherefores on which it was founded. It wasn't like it just appeared magically and everyone had rum and cookies, there were some disagreements in the process. I would rather people didn't take Pes or anyone else's opinion at face value as 'the right one', since that would just make us a bunch of sheeples. I in fact agree with you 100% that no one should charge anything for any pixels. The less or more evil thing is not me trying to justify anyone charging, but really it's me idealistically holding out hope that some of these misguided creators can be brought to see the light. It has happened before.

I know that you weren't taking shots at people who pay money for the booty, I just borrowed your term. That bit wasn't really in response to what you said, I guess I should have made it clearer that it was more of an elaboration of what you said before.

Don't take what I said personally, it wasn't aimed at any one person.

[de Pommes]

Nah, that post wasn't aimed directly at you, just venting in your general direction. Don't take it personally.

I get a tad frustrated sometimes is all, and me being here longer than any other particular person really is neither here nor there, except when people assume they know all the exact whys and wherefores on which it was founded. It wasn't like it just appeared magically and everyone had rum and cookies, there were some disagreements in the process. I would rather people didn't take Pes or anyone else's opinion at face value as 'the right one', since that would just make us a bunch of sheeples. I in fact agree with you 100% that no one should charge anything for any pixels. The less or more evil thing is not me trying to justify anyone charging, but really it's me idealistically holding out hope that some of these misguided creators can be brought to see the light. It has happened before.

I know that you weren't taking shots at people who pay money for the booty, I just borrowed your term. That bit wasn't really in response to what you said, I guess I should have made it clearer that it was more of an elaboration of what you said before.

Don't take what I said personally, it wasn't aimed at any one person.

Well, cool beans! :D

And yes, sorry for the misinterpretation of your post. I just wanted to make sure I was making myself clear, y'know?

[Harlock]

I was around before 2004.

Many of paysites did not started as such, TSR was once free as well as SimFreaks and many other sites that were paysites when TS2 was released.

Take SimSkins, when SimFreaks and 8DS pretty much cornered hair (and head) meshes with the 800 and 900 series they were a free alternative until they started to switch to more donation items and one day they started a subscription system.

Sure they did not moved very well into TS2 (like SimFreaks) but they were a example of what happened, there was a transition and as there are certainly people that started with a paysite I believe the majority started as free sites.

I do hold TSR and SimFreaks responsible for it, they were community landmarks and the moment they realized they could make money out of the said community members they sold out, I know there was payments during TS days before that situation was exposed in TS2 days.

In fact in the end of TS days I heard a rumor, the rumor was EA was considering hosting some sites but who they invited? TSR and SimFreaks ... its any wonder about that never materialized?