OFFICIAL THANK YOU THREAD

[SoggyFox]

Actually - the problem with guns is whether or not you know someone has one - I live in a town in the states where it was written into law that -every- household had to have a gun.  The crime rate dropped to the lowest in the state and possibly the lowest in the country.  When you know that every house has guns, you are less likely to break into it.

And the best deterrent to violence I could think of is pepper spray - someone sprayed some in a huge store and even clear across the store it was killing me - can't imagine how bad having it sprayed in my face would be.  And you couldn't actually kill someone to my knowledge, with it,

[pinkyfriend]

I'm pretty level-headed. I own several guns. I know how to use those guns. I have enough sense not to shoot at anyone or anything indiscriminately. I know other people might not be the same way. I don't really care. Someone breaks into my house, I won't hesitate to point my gun & calmly tell them to get the hell out. And if they don't...I will not hesitate to shoot them. And with my guns, they are pretty much gonna be dead. While I really don't WANT to kill someone...they should have stayed out of my house. It's mine! I don't carry a gun because I don't have a concealed carry permit yet, tho our county recently passed a law that we can. I do have a weapon tho...sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

[bmyall]

 I seem to be having difficulty really understanding this issue. It seems that most of you are saying that some form of protection is required. Is violent crime that prevalent? I'm not making light of the issue, I'm just shocked at what I'm hearing. The city I live in has about 400,000 people and I've never felt the need for personal weapons. My daughters 21, 19 haven't either.

[pinkyfriend]

I live in the boonies, where my nearest neighbor wouldn't even hear my screams...so I am pretty much on my own.
We have had trespassers/thieves come to our farm. It took the county sheriff almost an hour to get here the quickest response time.
I should add that my guns are not just for home defense but also for hunting.
And I just like to shoot them sometimes.

[Immortelle]

Guns still won't prevent a person breaking into your house and stealing your stuff.  Why?  Because most thieves will do it when they know you are not home.  They still will won't prevent an attacker from attacking you.  Why?  Because if they know you have a gun, more than likely they will have their weapon pointed at you first.  Most crims have a lot less regard for human life than what you do, and when push comes to shove they will more likely pull the trigger to kill before you even have a chance to aim yours.  Don't kid yourself into thinking that a gun is going to protect you against criminals, it only makes them worse.  You want to protect yourself against home invasion?  Get some good doors.  Barr up the windows.  Lock them.  Harder to get in and a far greater deterrant than any gun.

[Darqstar]

What you feel you need for protection pretty much depends on where you live and what level your personal safety factor is at.  I live in a city where there is a lot of poverty, thus a lot of crime. Yet, when I was a walking fool, I was going for long night rambles around the place and the only person to ever give me a hard time were the police.  

My house has been robbed, but it was when we went out.   But, because of that, we now lock the door leading into our building at night, where we used to leave it unlocked.  

I don't feel the need to carry a gun or really, any type of weapon anywhere I go in this city.  And while I know there are people who are responsible and can have firearms without posing a danger to themselves or society, I am not one of those people.  

[bmyall]

 We had long guns on the farm I grew up on but that was because of the frequent rabies epidemics in the area. That was more to protect the animals than ourselves, or perhaps a little hunting.

 If violent crimes are a function of poverty then we could be in for a rough ride with the economy going the way it has. I still can't fathom how that's a cultural aspect though.

[Darqstar]

If violent crimes are a function of poverty then we could be in for a rough ride with the economy going the way it has. I still can't fathom how that's a cultural aspect though.

Crime of all sorts, is generally higher in areas where money is scarce. 

[calalily]

And the best deterrent to violence I could think of is pepper spray - someone sprayed some in a huge store and even clear across the store it was killing me - can't imagine how bad having it sprayed in my face would be.  And you couldn't actually kill someone to my knowledge, with it

Some people have a bad reaction, and you can sustain serious burns if someone is overzealous.  I don't have an issue with anything that causes pain - tasers etc. but stops short of being able to kill decisively. I just don't think that an ordinary citizen should be given the ability to administer the death penalty.

While I really don't WANT to kill someone...they should have stayed out of my house. It's mine!

This is part of the problem for me - the opinion that a DVD player is worth more than a person.  Not everyone breaks into a house to hurt the occupants. And considering that almost every single person who argues that they're great with guns, and very responsible, then what exactly is the use of having a weapon, locked up, separated from the ammunition in your house?  I can't forsee people waiting for you to find your keys in the middle of the night and then assemble it.  So really, in a pinch, you won't have your gun.

It seems that most of you are saying that some form of protection is required. Is violent crime that prevalent? I'm not making light of the issue, I'm just shocked at what I'm hearing.

The reality is that no form of protection is required - it's part of the mindset of justification for why guns are good.  Plenty of USians live in relative peace with no need to actually ever use a gun, and certainly no one has blazed in here with their anecdote of how they shot various home invaders. Indeed, having a gun as part of the equation makes it *more* likely that you'll be hurt.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that a gun is going to protect you against criminals, it only makes them worse.

I agree wholeheartedly.  Guns denote the power relationship. In robbery situations, if your assailant has a gun and you cooperate, he's less likely to hurt you than he is if he has a knife - because the assailant has the power.

If violent crimes are a function of poverty then we could be in for a rough ride with the economy going the way it has. I still can't fathom how that's a cultural aspect though.

All property crimes are a function of poverty - not all violent crimes.  Culturally, there are some differences - more gun crimes in the US because of the gun control policy in the US, while the UK has high volumes of knife crimes. 

[paperbeth]

I used to be married to an Army Airborne Ranger. He was career army, very gung-ho. He would be gone in the field for weeks at a time, leaving me home alone. For my safety, he and his buddy taught me all about guns and how to use them. I was never around guns before then, but he had so many weapons that he felt it better that I know how to use one. They took me shooting one day and it was actually kinda fun. I got to fire several different guns, from a civil war pistol to a Glok. They made sure to teach me how to fire the 12 gauge shotgun, since that was what I would use to protect myself in the event of a break-in or an intruder, etc. It was kept "combat ready" under the bed. My husband told me that, in all likelyhood, I would never have to fire it. The sound of the gun being cocked, or pumped would be enough to scare off anyone. It's a very distinct sound that everyone recognizes, especially criminals. And with the shotgun loaded with bird-shot, good aim isn't even necessary. Just point in the general direction of the scumbag and fire.
Luckily, I never had to shoot anyone. But it was during that time that a very good friend of mine was shot during an attempted robbery, half a block from my house. She survived, but lost her spleen. She has to take meds everyday for the rest of her life.
I guess I'm saying that everyone can agree that there are some people that shouldn't have guns, but if you outlaw guns entirely, then only the outlaws will have guns. It's a difficult balance.

ok, I'll shut-up now.

[calalily]

It was kept "combat ready" under the bed.

See now, this is what I mean - it can't both be "combat ready" and held according to the law. So you can't be a responsible, law abiding gun owner and use it for the purpose it's bought for.

The sound of the gun being cocked, or pumped would be enough to scare off anyone. It's a very distinct sound that everyone recognizes, especially criminals.

You can actually buy that - just the cocking mechanism - so that you can do the "chik-chik" sound which will put the shits up someone without actually having a gun.

I guess I'm saying that everyone can agree that there are some people that shouldn't have guns, but if you outlaw guns entirely, then only the outlaws will have guns. It's a difficult balance.

Controlling them this way means that there are so many fewer shootings.  A petty criminal or casual criminal can't obtain a gun on a whim - so there are less shootings all round. I don't think I've ever heard of a driveby shooting here.

ok, I'll shut-up now.

You don't have to apologise for being forthright and opinionated. 

[Immortelle]

[qI don't think I've ever heard of a driveby shooting here.

They do happen. Albeit, very, very rarely.  Most shootings are linked to bikie gangs however, and they procure their weapons via the black market.

[bmyall]

I'm actually less concerned about guns and gun control issues than I am about the need for personal protection. I can understand wanting to protect ones home and family. What I'm curious about is the need to carry weapons. Is it fear or prudence?

[SoggyFox]

You can keep a gun combat ready here, as far as I know - city law.  Personally, my weapons are all combat ready except for the antique eqyptian dagger a friend sent me recently that needs work.  I've never been attacked, and I've lived in some poor and crime heavy areas - And when you befriend your neighbors, then you have folks to guard your back.

But it still stands that crime in my town is -very- low, and its only been since the gun law was put into place.

[HugeLunatic]

I live in the country, and a very large county.  The amount of meth labs is high, we also have our fair share of body dumps from the city, although it has been awhile since I have heard of one.  Our county is also poor, which means we don't have a large police force.  We keep our doors locked, garage door shut, and we lock the doors from inside the garage to the house.

I have a gun almost combat ready, meaning the clip is loaded and takes me 2 seconds to remove the trigger lock.  The only reason the clip is out is because I have children in the house, and I do believe it *is* illegal to have a loaded gun in the house with minors, but otherwise I don't think it is illegal to have a loaded firearm.  Now, my children are all expert shots too.  My 17 year old son was awarded ... can't think of the proper name off hand...  He has the expert marksmanship pin from the Army, and of my three boys, he is probably the worst shot!