Rose Sims and Paypal

[joanm]

I followed the link  to RoseSims this evening.  Don't particularly care if she sees where I come from, she's never gotten any of my money and never will.  But after reading about all the drama I was amused to find a copyrighted and probably trademarked character on her front page.  Since the download and donation links don't seem to be working I can't tell if she's charging or it's free. (Is there any free stuff on her site?)  

Now I know the anime companies tend to not do much (if anything) about all the fanfic out there, but that's free.  But selling hair, dress and an accessory made from their character, somehow I don't think they'd like it.  

I've only donated to one site and now I won't be doing even that unless it's a voluntary donation.  Does anyone have a list of the sites/site owners who were involved in this little info sharing scheme? I'n just wondering if I need to worry about my info.

[BlueSoup]

It was:

Rose
TSR
Lliella
Birgit
LyricLee (yeah, she wasn't a paysite owner, but she's a big hypocr...I mean supporter )
SimFreaks
Sussisogoodsims

That's all I can think of for now, though I may be missing some.

[PirateBooty]

exnem and simslice as well

[Super_Pirate_Dude]

It was:

Rose
TSR
Lliella
Birgit
LyricLee (yeah, she wasn't a paysite owner, but she's a big hypocr...I mean supporter )
SimFreaks
Sussisogoodsims

That's all I can think of for now, though I may be missing some.

Why does that not suprise me?

[torque]

I followed the link  to RoseSims this evening.  Don't particularly care if she sees where I come from, she's never gotten any of my money and never will.  But after reading about all the drama I was amused to find a copyrighted and probably trademarked character on her front page.  Since the download and donation links don't seem to be working I can't tell if she's charging or it's free. (Is there any free stuff on her site?)  

Now I know the anime companies tend to not do much (if anything) about all the fanfic out there, but that's free.  But selling hair, dress and an accessory made from their character, somehow I don't think they'd like it.  

I've only donated to one site and now I won't be doing even that unless it's a voluntary donation.  Does anyone have a list of the sites/site owners who were involved in this little info sharing scheme? I'n just wondering if I need to worry about my info.

You mean Sailor Moon? It's free. She made Sailor Jupiter a long time ago aswell.

[bethgael]

Sailor Moon and the FF weapons are free, but she has Yuna's wedding dress from FFX in the pay section in clear breach of Square Unix's trade mark and copyright.

I've never used her paystuff (until now *grin*) but I do like the weaponry and use it all the time in my stories. I'm a FF fan. What can I say?

[LesserOr]

Sailor Moon and the FF weapons are free, but she has Yuna's wedding dress from FFX in the pay section in clear breach of Square Unix's trade mark and copyright.

Square Enix.  :wink:

The pay section also has (Final Fantasy X) Lulu's hair and dress, and this other game character:

http://www.rosesims2.net/contribute/contribute_3.htm

The pink dress next to Lulu also looks familiar, but may just be derivative.

And of course there's all those uncredited Poser meshes.

[Soup Parrot]

Lesser if you think these are poser meshes, can you show which of roses, and the poser models to me. I will investigate this matter further, but you need to give me the links etc.

[wicked_one]

Lesser if you think these are poser meshes, can you show which of roses, and the poser models to me. I will investigate this matter further, but you need to give me the links etc.

i think Ghanima showed comparison pics of rose hairs on the thread at s2c, either the "why do people hate paysites" thread or the spinoff thread "poser initiative"...she posted alot of pics but i dont remember for certain if roses' were in there or not.

[LesserOr]

Took me a while to find the thread.  :?
It's a general indictment, not just against Rose. This has been talked about for a while, just not as publicly.

Reading the thread after this point gives links to the Poser mesh sites, and is sprinkled with picture proof.

These two are especially relevant to Rose:

Page 13
Post 383

Pictures speak much louder than accusations.
It's a pity they're lost in the rest of the thread. They did seem to change a lot of minds, though, if only toward those specific sites.

Editing to add:
I believe the Poser Initiative is specifically looking to contact these meshers.
A lot of the Poser community apparently knew this was going on, and was angered by it- I don't understand why they didn't try to inform the sims communities.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Picture proof is one thing.  It goes a long way, and the fact that so many hair meshes have major elements in common with several Poser hair meshes is... a pretty damn good case for it.  

However, I don't think anyone with the skill and knowhow has actually taken the time to open up both the original Poser meshes (which are often pay - $5-10 per mesh) and textures and the suspected Sims 2 mesh and texture and truly compare them, mainly due to lack of having the Poser meshes in hand.

Without that, it's just accusations.

The Poser Initiative does not have specific plans to make contact with creators of original Poser meshes we suspect have been stolen and alert them of the theft.  I certainly wouldn't withhold any of the suspicions from their community (and I've been talking to several folks in chat and in forums about it and shown them stuff)...  

The goal of the Poser Initiative is not to expose these possible thefts, but provide a steady supply of quality free hair to the community, working together with the Poser community to do so with complete permissions, credits, and links.  The suspected thefts actually make it somewhat harder for us to get the permissions from the Poser community, I think, as if they have heard of the previous thefts, they may think we're just going to do the same thing.  I'm working hard to set things right and make it clear to them that that's not what we're going to do.  We'll see how it goes.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so I'm mainly just responding to LesserOr here, but... the Poser Initiative is just about making hair and trying to do it well and for free for everyone.  If other people want to get proactive about making accusations that they can offer to the original creators of the suspected thefts, that's their business.  

[PirateBooty]

I highly doubt any of them paid for their poser meshes, just like I doubt any of them paid for their adobe photoshop or anything else. You can get the meshes the same way you can get the rest of the software.

[LesserOr]

I'll preface by saying I wasn't holding that thread up as a 100% reliable example, it's just the most recent example.

Some of the pics shown were simply in the same style. It detracts from the point when you show pics of long, straight hair...and quel coincidence, long, straight hair!
I also wish she had included more pics from the paysites themselves, because the glamor shots tend to be the same (makes sense, since both were often meant to only be seen from one angle.)

At the moment I'm drawing a blank as to where I saw the previous (primarily Rose and Peggy) thread, as it had more Poser links and was better overall. :?

Without that, it's just accusations.

Yes, but with a firm enough base that they aren't dismissable. Once is chance, twice is coincidence, but thrice is conspiracy.
If you can look at one Poser site and find multiple hair files from the same paysite, that's at least theft of concept.
When several sims sites release the same style that just happens to be a new Poser release? Well...

There were also those horrid ones that had the same textures, and sometimes the same names. Indefensible.

The goal of the Poser Initiative is not to expose these possible thefts,

I wasn't intending to imply that you were crusading, I just thought one of the goals was to pick up some of the same meshes and make proper, legal conversions of them.
As I said in the edit, I understand that many of them already know what's been going on. I assume they're at least aware of Peggy's conversions, since those are the most blatant.

I freely admit that I've not been following the latest PI information closely- I'm not a mesher, the Poser community is terrifying, I'm swamped with work, and I don't have disposable income right now.
So you have my full support, just not the tangible kind.  :oops:

I highly doubt any of them paid for their poser meshes, just like I doubt any of them paid for their adobe photoshop or anything else. You can get the meshes the same way you can get the rest of the software.

Eh, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, simply because of the laziness / ease of use factor.
Most of them are making enough money that dropping $5-10 per mesh is going to be cheaper in time and risk than scouring pirate sites.
That's what, 3 or 4 people if you're buying from Rose?

[PirateBooty]

I'd argue that grabbing files from usenet (via a user-friendly web interface site) is easier than going and paying for meshes.

but you do have a point, if they're making the kind of money we think they are, what's $5-10 every week or so?

[HystericalParoxysm]

I certainly won't deny that it's one hell of a good case for theft when so many meshes over and over and over on three specific sites can be associated with existing Poser hair, with definite similarities.  There are a few styles in particular that I cannot imagine were not at least copied from Poser hair, if not outright converted and stolen.

However, I cannot say for my own certainty that they are 100% for sure stolen.  If I had the Poser meshes in-hand I could do so, but I don't, so I can't.  And without being able to say, "This is stolen from you," I wouldn't go and contact Poser creators.

That's just a personal thing, having dealt with suspected thefts of all kinds of sim content for a while now.  I've learned not to say it's stolen till I've had it up in Photoshop or Milkshape to compare the actual pieces with my own eyes.

For what it's worth, I personally believe they are stolen, but that 1% of doubt for not having both to open keeps me from crusading about it.  That, and I would rather focus on the positive aspects and leave the crusade to someone who can't convert hair.  

We don't have specific plans to contact those who have had things stolen to do conversions of their work.  At this point in the game we are converting free work that we already have permissions for, and looking into getting more permissions for more items.  We may end up contacting some of the same artists that have had work probably stolen, but only to ask for permission, not to alert them to the possible thefts.  Certainly wouldn't shy away from discussing it if they brought it up, but, well...  I think we just want to focus on converting hair.

What we convert will be based, well, mainly on what Nouk and I look at and go, "Eee, cute!" as well as what we think would be easy/doable to convert, and what we can get permissions for.