Working on solution

[Lizard]

:shock: arr

Ok , I read all .

I comment of few otherwise is all too long.
Yes there is indeedy also very good free products made for free in this community bút it seems that more and more ask money but make free use of all tools and free promotion .
Because they can and because this community allows it ...still .
And with this I mean , that maybe update/find sites could maybe think a little too if they still want to give all free promotion for sites that only take from this comunity .

The reason I write here is that more people will read then but I do hope that more people will join in here and speak their mind and not leave it all to a few people .
If you feel reluctant to speak up in here you could share your payproducts of sites you don't agree with, in here .

If you have a forum or a site you could also start to promote the Piratesforum or SimsVault simply by putting a link to these 2 forums in your find or update topic .

Ok , someone in here someone said as reply that paysites could freely share ALL their products that are older than 1 year to show goodwill to community and in so give something back and in so include more people .

Would this something you are willing to open up for ?

So to say it simple , what can a paysite do to get you off his back ?  
The fact will remain that people will go on to make Simsproducts for money , in spite of your well meant efforts , some sites close but then 2 others open to fill that gap and this will go on and on .

I am more of a practical guy so what could you see in practical what could bring both parties little more together .

And also , now that there is more openness in this all , what could the rest of the community do ?

And I answer one more , about the TSR2 , well that is very big site so in this I can't see any solution then what you are doing now but most are way more small , like Simsconnection and Reflex , I saw in your booty list so is there no way to talk with them and see if you come both to solution that will bennefit both parties , so give room for both ?

Because you can be stubborn and only go for one goal only but maybe there can be also something achieved , if you could open up for more possibility , if both parties could be little more flexible.

And maybe you could make some suggestions to payites in here that are practical so they can think this over and maybe they could come in here and talk further with you .

Is this not something to considder for both parties ?

[calalily]

And with this I mean , that maybe update/find sites could maybe think a little too if they still want to give all free promotion for sites that only take from this comunity .

Actually, S2C has a free finds section, and Parsimonious doesn't seem to include paystuffs anymore - or perhaps it is that paystuffs just aren't good enough.

So to say it simple , what can a paysite do to get you off his back ?

Stop being one. Many sites, including all of Pescado's have shown that donation works.  Members paid $2100 for a new server, and some even donated before the server was sure, knowing that it would go to beer and some such for them.

The fact will remain that people will go on to make Simsproducts for money , in spite of your well meant efforts , some sites close but then 2 others open to fill that gap and this will go on and on .

This is the reason that they must be destroyed - and why they need all their money taken off them.  The evil just proliferates.

I saw in your booty list so is there no way to talk with them and see if you come both to solution that will bennefit both parties , so give room for both ?

They don't care about benefitting anyone but themselves - they use community to bludgeon everyone to be a good little consumer.  They don't care about our benefit - that's what allows them to be money-grubbing bastards in the first place.

[darkangel]

Seriously...what kind of planet are you from? Do friend and foe hug there eachother?

This discussion is way too useless. It's cute and all, "wanting peace" and all but I don't think you see the reason of this site.
Paysites must be destroyed. Battle without honor or humanity.

[HideTheRum]

No matter how civil and nice your effort, I seriously can't see why this side of the issue (=us) should even consider taking one step back like you suggest we do. Sims paysites are illegal and a daily offence, why we should even remotely care about reaching any sort of agreement with them really is beyond me  :shock: . Paysites simply have to cease to exist, because when it is proven that there are lots of valid alternatives to having subscriptions, and these days there's also a lot of help available out there in the community as to how to successfully turn a paysite into a free site (just take Delphy of MTS2 - for God's sakes I never had a site but after reading just a few of his advices on how to turn a paysite into a 100% free site without losing money, even I would know how to do it if I decided to do it tomorrow!) you really have no excuse for still running a paysite. The point is, most paysites obviously refuse any advice because what they truly want is to make money, not cover bandwidth costs. So I honestly do not understand your point of view, because the idea of compromise should not come from this side of the issue.

[Yaardarm Monkey]

The problem of paysites are many, but this is a classic example of what is wrong with paysites....and Carla Niven is another example  :roll:

http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=443

It's the "brand new site with no bandwidth problems going pay right off the bat" syndrome.

It's about principle, Lizard.  And the fact is, charging for files and these spanking new paysites popping up like mushrooms, is the height of unprincipled behavior.  It's not about "community", it's about greed.  Plain & simple.

that's why JM made this site of sanity in the first place

the call of PMBD has gone unheeded

why the paysite owners 'just dont get it'

 :wink:

[Scratch]

Methinks the paysite owners are starting to get a little desperate...

     

Isn't this like crack dealers trying to come to some sort of compromise with the courts???      :roll:

[Lizard]

I think they are not all too happy with all talk but you have to keep in mind that people are bored fast and it will come and go in waves .

And to answer , of course many paysites are only out to make proffit , we can agree on that .

With one step back I don't mean you have to cave on or in , not sure about word, but is like this .
When you make painting and stay too close to canvas you sometimes loose sight of whole painting .

So back to the fact that many paysites is out for the money .
I think is safe to say that most are aware you are collecting and sharing "donation" and payfiles .
Most just cut their loss and with this I mean , they know of your sharing but still making goooooooooood money anyway .
Or they close but like I said , another will eagerly fill the gap .

For them it would be very nice to get you of their backs so they can make even more money .
Ok , now you can keep on doing this and I see the other parts of community warming up to this idea , so not only do they grab your sharefiles in anonymous way cause I think you are aware that many people are just out for the grab in same spirrit as people who have paysites . But they are also prepared to become involved a little more active and that is good thing .

What I mean is , if a paysite is willing to negociate , and you only have to wait if paysite come forward and is prepared to make some contribution to this community , it can be by giving a donation to MTS2 or give more files for free , is this not something to considder ?

The motivation of the paysite would be : if I give an x amount to MTS2 and in so get rid of Pirateforum , that would make my proffit xxx more .
Ok , but then on the other hand MTS2 , who could need some donations,  would have some more cash to continue.

This could bennefit whole community and both parties can bennefit .
Paysites use bút also suport free inittatives .
Free initiatives can continue and keep community creative .

If maybe paysites know you could maybe considder alternative , well maybe they grab calculator and are doing their math .

Well , this is all I can really say , otherwise I am in repeating myself .
I am 45 years old and for in life I learned that there are sometimes more then one aproach , and is sometimes different then what I had in mind .
I do apreciate your inititative and I am not only one , maybe is also good to know for you .
But I have small forum , if it was even smaller it would implode so there is only so much I can do .
I don't think my idea's are bad idea's and I don't see it as matter of right or wrong , we can both have different opinions on this .
Maybe you can considder but I leave up to you .

It was nice to talk in better way as we have done in past , so good luck with all .

Friendly greet , Lizard / Nikos

[Max_The_Repairman]

Y'know... free initiatives -already- continue to keep the community creative - it's the paysites trying to bribe and buy out people that's causing the biggest problems. I think you're either missing the point entirely, or deliberately fishing here.

Seriously. If you're trying to convince paysites to improve their policies, preaching to the people who think they deserve to be disemboweled and roasted over their own exclusivity contracts is not an efficient way to go about it. If you're trying to convince people that maybe if they leave the paysites alone, they'll learn something, I think there are a number of counterarguments to that. If you're trying to tell people that maybe if they stop sharing their files, paysites will give money to free sites, I'm going to have to point and laugh at you. A lot.

[Anouk]

But Lizard,

The only thing they are contributing to the community right now is:
*dividing people with and without money
*telling people they owe them something for what they offer themselves, out of free will
*making it normal and even attractive to sell stuff that shoudl never be sold
*ruining the community

They can never undo this if they continue to sell their items, and we can and will not take any step forward, because anything we would do, would just help them get accepted and get more money. It will not work.

[Hyperkitty]

Lyric, please get a fucking life.
Please for the sake of humanity.
Please.

[Helena]

I don't know if there is such a saying in english, but in russian we say "you see life through pink glasses" meaning, that everything seems so easy to you, and you haven't seen the real life.
If I understood you correctly - you want paysites to make payfiles free after some time. OK, I can imagine, that small sites would do this way. But do you really think that some Peggy or TSR will do this way too? I am sure, that all of the paysites owners would say "I don't care".

[yamikuronue]

Hey, people, hold on a moment. I for one want to congratulate vulzard on making 4 entire decent posts with a sane and rational tone without screaming at us about morality. This is a big leap forward, congratulations!

That said, I agree that in a perfect world that'd be a nice compromise, one that maybe even most moderate pirate sympathizers could agree to. But unfortunately, a) paysite owners see no reason yet to change and b) it's still illegal anyway.

[blackmars]

Yeah we have the "world through rose colored glasses" thing, Helena. And that's what Lizard's got. It's nice to be optimistic but when you step back from the "canvas" (I was an art student I know all about that metaphor) and look at it with fresh eyes being nice isn't going to help but so much. Paysites are still running even though a few are starting to go free, but the ones that remain free because they feel that you should pay for their work are the problem.  Friendly talks with them will just be deadlocked. They only see one thing and that's profit.

[beawaywithit]

You're trying to preach about Paysites and Paysite-haters (for lack of better terms) trying to get together and share a little something called understanding.

I don't think thats going to happen.
We know why paysites exist - to make money. They care little for community. Community = sharing. Mm, I love sharing

And, honestly:

The words 'but' and 'and' do NOT have accents on the vowels.

[Lethe]

Hyperkitty,

I'm pretty sure Lizard isn't Lyriclee, at this point.
This is not the kind of thing Lyric would do, and not the language/writing style she would use.