Delphy's MTS2 2007 Mission Statement

[Delphy]

The subscriptions page does work - still has all the old ones on, but those will go soon.  Just use Donate / Support at the top if the javascript one doesn't.

[minena]

Bravo. Clear and concise and totally on point.

[sickpuppy]

sickpuppy, who says you have to respect it?

I didn't say anyone siad I had to. If Anyone DID say it, I'm sure I'd go quickly to "I DO NOT respect that."

Just try and see things from a bigger picture - you don't want to alienate creators becuase of pro-filesharing, you actually want to encourage free sites (and thus, anti-paysite) by showing alternatives to hosting etc.  You also don't want to alienate a lot of people who, for them, "pirating is bad, mkay?".

Said just like a politician. Good for you, Delphy, and I can see that it can be good for MTS2 and hence the users of MTS2. But good all over, in the long run? Probably not, since it often doesn't work out for politicians in the long run either. Hence, I'm undecided where I stand on the stance.

No matter how you put it in terms of pieces of software, you are putting yourself out to be "pirates" - avatars, forum names, sigs etc - and for many people thats a bad connotation.

So what? it's fun, period. If anyone is making more of it then that, they need to get a grip and grow up. If someone calls someone a bitch, that person may joke about it and call themselves a bitch without ever meaning they think themselves a bitch. Everyone around laughs cuz they know the source. Same here.

PS. Also, my indicision on your stance is borne of experience with your viewpoints and attitudes that have ...waffled a bit, Lyric Lee comes to mind and how people tried to point out to you she was 'way off' in her dictatorship, but you chose to ignore it for whatever reason. I don't care the reason, it hurt the site and it hurt individuals needlessly. So I am not 'climbing on your wagon, just because it's the 'right color' today. All that said, I DO think you took a great big step for the community and I think we all thank you for that. It did quite a bit in restoring my 'like' of you....but..... I'm not 'sheep status' yet.

JM, for comparison to make this more understandable, I willing bring virgin goats to lay at his feet. He has been steady in his opinions on everything from the git go. Those opinions always have been in the interest of the community and the game with no hidden agendas.

[yamikuronue]

I think Delphy's point is that, as leader of a giant organization, his hands are tied- he can't afford to alienate any significant portion of the community by advocating something like filesharing just like a secular leader can't afford to alienate a good chunk of his or her citizens by advocating a particular religion above another. He has to play nice so that we can be naughty and people can pick and choose, or be part of both.

[sickpuppy]

Yes, I can see that. But don't know if I agree it's ...'all good.'

Wouldn't it be more 'anti-paysite' if he allowed signatures to with links to this site and SFV? Afterall, he allows signatures with links to paysites.

[Soup Parrot]

Delphy this doesnt hold with me. I snipped this off a comment of yours:
Just try and see things from a bigger picture - you don't want to alienate creators becuase of pro-filesharing, you actually want to encourage free sites

This alienating the creators, the only alienation will be those being paysites, not creators that do it for fun, game enjoyment and all. We want to bring down the paysites its a bad practice. My feeling is if these people think their work is so great that, they should make money for it then fold up your site and join the Poser and other 3D communities, where money is charged for the product because it can be used in a proffessional capacity. Also to me its a scam when you ask for a donation but are actually subscribing. While this site might seem extreme, I can see why it was necessary. If you make their donation files freely accessible to all the community then, slowly the demand for them diminishes, that would then in turn mean no more new subscribers, people unsubscribing, etc the numbers going down. Also, I see frustration from some of the posters that they cant mention this site on MTS2. I dont think you hate us, but if you dont say anything on MTS2 and this site was promoted there (I could be wrong here, TSR is under EU laws and you are, maybe they'd try to sue you? None of us would want that as we love MTS2, but if TSR is generating Millions, they can harass you with lawyers. So I can see you having to step carefully with rules and disclaimers. And I noticed that forum software has rules too from that software company.  Seriously, I think all the initiates from Sims Better Bussiness, the free site coalition, the Poser Initiative, MTS2 strengthening, and this site, will take a toll on paysites. I think the whole disussion has got everyone thinking, and looking at paysites differently.
I think there is going to be a big bump in Sims 2 players when seasons  is released, so by then hopefully this movement as a whole will have momentum, will hopefully lesson the amount of new players using paysites. Just my opinion here.

[Delphy]

Yes, I can see that. But don't know if I agree it's ...'all good.'

Wouldn't it be more 'anti-paysite' if he allowed signatures to with links to this site and SFV? Afterall, he allows signatures with links to paysites.

Becuase then you'd get into pro-filesharing which is a whole seperate thing than just being anti-paysite.

I realise that some people want everything to be totally against paysites right now, but change has to happen over time.  Sure, I've made mistakes in the past (hasn't everybody?), and recognised those and hopefully worked some to get through them.

I allow links to paysites becuase it's the individuals prerogative.  One thing that TSR has done lately is severly limit what people can and can't put in signatures - you aren't allowed to link to your own blog, for example, unless it's Sims related and PG-13.  Excessive rules make for very disgruntled people over there (so I've heard), and thats notwithstanding the definition of a paysite can vary depending on who you talk to, so limiting it in signatures isn't something I've even considered.

There will always be people who are "on the fringes", and thats fine.  Change can happen from those fringes, or from the big organisations in the center - so long as the change is a positive one and is beneficial to the entire community, then thats good for all concerned.

Some people have yet to make up thier mind about this whole thing, but the more people realise how this community was founded and built up the more will realise that paying subscriptions to paysites isn't the way forward.  Encouraging them to go to voluntary donations or ad revenue, or whatever, is much better.

With all that said, however, I personally have absolutely no love whatsoever for TSR, given thier business practices and attitudes in the community, so far as I'm concerned they should be nuked from orbit - but only after all the good creators have gone someplace else.

[sickpuppy]

Becuase then you'd get into pro-filesharing which is a whole seperate thing than just being anti-paysite.......I allow links to paysites becuase it's the individuals prerogative.

I smell Bull Shit.

IMO, this is two faced.

[Delphy]

Seriously, I think all the initiates from Sims Better Bussiness, the free site coalition, the Poser Initiative, MTS2 strengthening, and this site, will take a toll on paysites. I think the whole disussion has got everyone thinking, and looking at paysites differently.

I entirely agree with you on this point.  Spreading the message is the key thing here.

The thing I meant about alienating creators is that, yes, they are getting money at the moment, but maybe some of those are out to just create - some people who are at TSR post stuff on free sites, for example, so you can't label all creators who get money with the same brush.  

It's a tough call though, but I think a creator that knows that thier stuff is being shared regardless of any policies they might have by this site (and, by extension, the "free community"), might think "well, they are stealing *my* stuff so why should I do anything for them?".  It's unfortunate, and I wish it didn't happen, but creators can be... well, very strange.

To lure those creators, you need to think in terms of other communities where they could potentially be getting much more money - TurboSquid, the Poser ones, stuff like that.  Basically it's dangling an even bigger carrot so that they'd realise that they don't have to be on a particular Sims 2 paysite, but can instead give to this community for free.

Unfortunately, this community has been dealing with paysites since the Sims 1 days, so a lot of the work needs to be focused more on the paysite mentality of the community as a whole rather than sharing a few files here and there.  You'd get a much better "result" in the long term.

[Delphy]

Becuase then you'd get into pro-filesharing which is a whole seperate thing than just being anti-paysite.......I allow links to paysites becuase it's the individuals prerogative.

I smell Bull Shit.

IMO, this is two faced.

Have it your own way. If this particular forum removed the file-sharing links (ie the Treasure Chest forum), then it would only be the discussion side, and then I'd link to it, but I do not think that what you are doing is the right way to go about "destroying paysites".

You want me to polarise to your way of thinking - sorry but I'm not going to do that.  I have my opinions and the opinions of my staff and half a million members to think about, so no matter what I do, part of it wont be liked by a portion of those.

You smell bullshit, fine, I don't really care - I think the message is more important than filesharing, so think what you will.

[gethane]

and the whole pro-filesharing thing is really going about "destroying paysites" the wrong way.  

I disagree. It's really quite annoying that people don't seem to be pointing out that it IS PMBD that got this new spark of discussion about paysites going. It's these nefarious pirate filesharers that is now allowing all of you to come out of the closet.

No one was even doing it the "right" way. Before it will succeed, people have to know about it. And they aren't going to know about it if big sites ban talk about it left and right. I'm glad you did finally leave the one thread up. That turned into a good discussion.

But those of you who were fence sitting don't get to now "define" the conversation and the revolution the way you want. PMBD came out of the closet in a big way and started this latest discussion in the sims community.

I've been following this for years. This might indeed be my first post on PMBD. I've got 5 kids, one of them still a nursling, so I don't often have 2 hands free to type. But I do read. A lot. Lots and lots of threads. And I've been playing first Sims 1, then Sims 2 from release. I've watched this paysite SHIT grow. And I've watched people waffle. Hell, I've waffled. Until PMBD made it "ok" to talk about it, no one WAS talking about it, in public at least. Everyone was all "Oh, I understand how the creators deserve credit. Oh, they must pay for bandwidth."

[Delphy]

gethane, your whole post is about the aspect of discussing paysites - which is what has happened, and thats good.  Sure, PMBD may have been a catalyst, but it was the discussion of why rather than any specific actual filesharing itself that provided the climate change we are seeing now.  Yes, the filesharing had an impact, but I think honestly thats more for the shock value and to get people to listen to the message, more than anything.

I'd be happy to hear from BlueSoup or Pescado about whether they thought the filesharing in and of itself was going to destroy paysites, or whether they knew that it would spark discussions and that would be what kicked off the revolution?

[Quinctia]

If the message is more important than the filesharing, then linking here shouldn't be a problem, as the filesharing doesn't matter so much?

You're going around in a circle.  I can understand not wanting to discuss it on your sites, but I think allowing signatures would let the conversation flow where it ought to.  Someone brings up the site that must not be named, and they have a link to phorum.mustnotbenamed.com it's a no brainer.  And there would probably be less mentioning of it on your forums in the long run.

[sickpuppy]

If there's a link to the booty in the Treasure Chest forum I don't know about it.

I wasn't trying to change your mind Delphy. IA person has an opinion and they usually stick to it, regardless of what anyone else says. I was just stating my opion of what you said.

This phorum IS the right way to attack this problem. It's made great strides so far, that no one else dared to make before. (Pescado has big ones ) This site is needed mostly because of the way the subject was handled at places like MTS2--delete the threads, ban the links. Yes, you have taken a giant step in the right direction with the 2007 mission Statement. Wasn't the statement 'down with paysites, let's stop them'? THIS site is taking the steps to actually stop them, where it counts the most, in their pockets which is all they care about. That is not wrong. MTS2 has taken the second seat, helping spread the word. And that's a good thing.

Still, allowing links and threads to and about paysites and not allowing links and threads about SFV and PMBD is counterproductive and definitely sends a confusing, mixed message.

[gethane]

Not true, and I'll tell you why. Prior to having an alternative to GET the files, people were afraid to come out on the issue because of things that DID then happen. Paypal information being shared and people being banned. Now it doesn't matter so much. If you get banned from Rose or Peggy, big deal. You can just get the files here now anyway. Before it was extortive (if that's a word). If you came out for free sites and sharing, you could and were banned from paysites.

Edit so that's why the filesharing AND the discussion is important. (eta). Don't just talk the talk, walk the walk.

gethane, your whole post is about the aspect of discussing paysites - which is what has happened, and thats good.  Sure, PMBD may have been a catalyst, but it was the discussion of why rather than any specific actual filesharing itself that provided the climate change we are seeing now.  Yes, the filesharing had an impact, but I think honestly thats more for the shock value and to get people to listen to the message, more than anything.