Sugah's Place Hacked AGAIN!

[missangelica]

I really don't want to stoop down to that level.

And why should you have to?  Your evil twin brother is already in the muck.  There's no sense in you getting dirty too.  You are, afterall, their PR person at this point.

But whatever, right?  Keep cashing your paycheck that is paid by the people you and tsr are scamming.  They don't need that money.  You're actually doing them a service of taking their money.  They'd spend it on stuff that are from the devil!  Hookers and booze!  Dude, you are totally saving their souls from eternal damnation.  You are practically a saint!

[johan]

This is getting silly and i won't go down there. Which is probably what you want so you can beat me in your own backyard.
While we're at it, can we have funny pictures with cats to?

[Quorneater]

Do we do the cat stuff here?  That may be a MATY phenomenon.   I like to make my own each time, whereas Pescado is the laziest - he constantly regurgitates a few favorites.

Back to the photographs - who is that in the corner, looks to be sewing a huge green quilt?

[Moune]

I don't believe the 'Team Johan' think either. For two reasons.
Firstly, I think Johan is a grown up man and entirely capable of speaking up on his own.

Ofcourse he is, but he has a financial and emotional interrest in protecting TSR's reputation. If the consensus among team Johan is made, all he needs to do is to act that out untill something new comes up.

Secondly, because if the whole TSR management has to consult and agree on a strategy every time Johan makes a post here or at MATY, it would take up an enormous amount of their time. Time that would then not be spent running TSR and making money off Sims stuff. I don't think that's realistic.

Me neither, and that's not really what I said.
How long does it take to go on some chat program, decide on a general consensus, and only contact someone whenever something new comes up? Which is not very often, mind you. All that's been up for discussion lately are a few hackings. I'm sure Johan knows exactly how to react to stuff according to what they agreed to.

Of course they talk about these things. They have to. But I find the suggestion that Johan is just a sock puppet for a panel of TSR management and certain FA's rather farfetched.

You don't really have to act like a total sockpuppet to agree on saying or not saying something, or agree on acting a certain way to keep up an image. I'm sure Johan is Johan, but I'm also sure he will do nothing to harm TSR, and to do that, you have to have the same story all the way. And a way to avoid mismatching stories, to to eliminate all other higher ranking TSR 'representatives' from interacting with the outside (pirate) community, which has happened. They don't bother, and I believe they agreed to stay out of it, as Johan gives off the right image.

And of course he only comes here when there is trouble for TSR. At all other times there really isn't any reason for him to snuggle up with pirates, is there?

Again, why only him? Why would the coder give a damn? The man that never bothered before?
Maybe because he's the only one believable enough, an untarnished reputation, with no real way of knowing if he shares his friends' and family's morals or ethics? It's ideal.

because if the whole TSR management has to consult and agree on a strategy every time Johan makes a post here or at MATY, it would take up an enormous amount of their time.

 Just how large do you think the office is?

pic

How close would Tom and Johan have to be?

pic

This close?

 If some people want to wear Team Johans custom knitted woolen blinkers I can not change that, but lift them up once in a while, as over use can damage your eyes.

Can we just take the tinfoil hats off.

What No No No is describing is completely normal, rational and responsible behaviour by any adult who is part of a group – be it a business, an organization or a family. A problem comes up. You discuss it. You decide how to handle it. If anybody here thinks that’s a devious, suspicious or just bad way of handling things then I’m glad I don’t have to interact with you in real life.

It doesn’t matter how big the TSR office physically is. I’m talking about time here, not space. And constantly discussing what Johan should post or not post would take time – too much time when you’re running a serious business.

Besides if you look at the time of a lot of Johan’s post here or at MATY they’re made very late at night – often past midnight. You’re not going to tell me that the whole TSR management sits around in their office at that hour?

I think the coder gives a damn, because anybody would eventually get fed up with the accusations levelled against TSR. Particularly if you actually thought they were wrong. I suggest going back to read the ‘TSR: In your accounts’ thread where Inge points out that it was originally her who advised Johan to come here and speak out, because he was ticked off about what he thought was lies.

Can anybody come up with just one good reason for Thomas to come here? No? I thought as much.

Can anybody imagine what would happen if Thomas did show up here and tried to talk about this? I can. It would be total mayhem with nothing but accusations and nastiness – like what missangelica presented in her latest post in this thread. It would serve no purpose whatsoever – neither piratey nor TSR-ish. Except for those who are just waiting for somebody to vent their frustrations on, of course.

Finally, just for the record: I don’t wear any woollen blinkers. But you’re not going to make me wear a tinfoil hat, either. I think they look quite ridiculous.

PS Inge, yes we do cats here. There’s a whole thread about them over in Sharkbait.

[Pescado]

Yeah, that's an argument against the "hive mind" idea. Sure, they have an office and talk, but Johan seems to show up during times which not always standard office hours. And obviously, he believes these accusations are untrue...but at the same time, he can only speak for himself, and clearly not the entireity of TSR. I haven't found any evidence that he, personally, has committed any nefarious acts, but again, he isn't the entireity of TSR, and clearly there is stuff they don't tell him about.

[missangelica]

This is getting silly and i won't go down there. Which is probably what you want so you can beat me in your own backyard.
While we're at it, can we have funny pictures with cats to?

You're right.  It is getting ridiculous.  It's been, what, six years since Sims 2 was released and the cesspool that you belong to still exists.  It also matters little to me exactly how much you know.  Ignorance is not an excuse.  You are in the muck with your brother just by being part of the tsr team and keeping the site up.  How?  Because you don't have to get your hands dirty or do anything that you feel is morally offensive to be responsible.  Your inaction to prevent your brother from sharing users information, for example, is approval of what he does.  

What does this matter though, right?  No blood is being spilled.  You guys are just offering a service!  You have done so much for the community!  That's what you think, right?  Just because the money that you are taking doesn't have blood on it doesn't mean it's not wrong.  You have no right because it all belongs to EA.  

And hey, you know what?  If you guys have enough money to build Thomass a second *house*, how about you use that money to finance a game that would be tsr's?  You could actually be legitimate for once.

[No No No]

Moune, no matter how normal you think it is to:
- pull back all public community contact from 'tarnished' people with the 'problem' community and only let one guy handle this image thing, namely the guy with no image problem
- make sure the lies match so that you can protect TSR
- make people believe you have no idea what's going on, that you would never agree to what Thomas is accused of doing, and that you are simply naive and believe your family and friends to not have shared the member database while all other options are extremely unlikely if not impossible
... I still think it's slimey and manipulative.

Anyways the point I'm trying to make is: This man is from TSR. Messed up things have happened. He claims he knows nothing. Why should we believe him? How do we know he did not know, when he has been proven to know and participate in one atrocity that's been bad enough? Just because he talks smooth and seems like a nice guy?

And sure Johan, you seem like a decent enough guy. But with how TSR has manipulated in the past and how they operate, I simply do not trust you to tell the truth on certain things. Ever. Even if you are shiney.

[dstar]

I am actually less likely to trust the people that are all shiny- the shiny ones are usually coated in pan spray or covered in Saran Wrap and Trash Bags to keep the shit they are covered in from sticking.

[Pescado]

And sure Johan, you seem like a decent enough guy. But with how TSR has manipulated in the past and how they operate, I simply do not trust you to tell the truth on certain things. Ever. Even if you are shiney.

Well, let's look at the facts. Either he's not as shiny as he appears, and therefore, he will lie, or he is as shiny as he appears, and in any event, has admitted he has no idea what is happening, which renders most of what he says about the matter meaningless. Either way, he is not mounting an effective defense of TSR as a whole. I'm willing to believe him simply because I've already tried to pin stuff on him without any of it sticking to him personally, but like I said, he's also admitted he doesn't really know. If he was dishonest about that, such a move renders his defensive efforts worthless. If he was honest about hit, his defense of TSR is still meaningless. Whether true or false, what he has said has effectively crippled his defense of TSR.

[SnarkyShark]

What No No No is describing is completely normal, rational and responsible behaviour by any adult who is part of a group – be it a business, an organization or a family.

Responsible? Like when johan and his brother shared the personal details of their members with FA's? I bring it up (yet again) to point out that we're not dealing with particularly "responsible" individuals.

It doesn’t matter how big the TSR office physically is. I’m talking about time here, not space. And constantly discussing what Johan should post or not post would take time – too much time when you’re running a serious business.

They wouldn't have to be "constantly" discussing it in order for coconut's accusations to be correct.

Besides if you look at the time of a lot of Johan’s post here or at MATY they’re made very late at night – often past midnight. You’re not going to tell me that the whole TSR management sits around in their office at that hour?

If you can present time cards which show when various staff members at TSR punch in and out, you might have a point. Otherwise, I've worked well past midnight on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS. So, yeah, it happens.

I think the coder gives a damn, because anybody would eventually get fed up with the accusations levelled against TSR. Particularly if you actually thought they were wrong.

I'm an "anybody" and, strangely enough, I'm not fed up with the accusations against TSR (at least not in the way I think you might mean). What I'm fed up with are the actions of TSR.

I suggest going back to read the ‘TSR: In your accounts’ thread where Inge points out that it was originally her who advised Johan to come here and speak out, because he was ticked off about what he thought was lies.

Really don't need to as I was present when it was being written. Besides, you're putting quite a lot of faith in someone who pretty much yelled BINGO! when she thought she figured out coconut's identity.

Can anybody come up with just one good reason for Thomas to come here? No? I thought as much.

Reason #1) See if he can get any information that might help him discover the identity of coconut. An individual who has placed his paysite in a compromising position on more than one occasion.

Reason #2)Do whatever he can to discredit coconut, the ONLY reliable source of information coming from TSR.

Reason #3) Do whatever he can do to cause trouble at PMBD, the site that is biting into the profits of his family's cashcow.

Those are just three reasons right off the top of my head, Moune.

Can anybody imagine what would happen if Thomas did show up here and tried to talk about this? I can. It would be total mayhem with nothing but accusations and nastiness – like what missangelica presented in her latest post in this thread. It would serve no purpose whatsoever – neither piratey nor TSR-ish. Except for those who are just waiting for somebody to vent their frustrations on, of course.

Which is exactly why it would be in his interest to send a representative to make his case. Regardless, I'm not here to debate issues with Thomas or ANY of his  representatives, I'm here to help stop nefarious paysite activities.

PS Inge, yes we do cats here. There’s a whole thread about them over in Sharkbait.

Yes, that we have. -  

Edit - now less harsh.

[Pescado]

Come now, let's not be hostile. Let the man talk. If he doesn't know anything, he can't really defend TSR anyway, and if he does know something, he'll blurt it out eventually.

In any event, as far as THIS particular hacking goes, there is no real evidence that TSR was involved at all, as this "Sugah" is not connected with either of us in any way, and has neither confirmed nor denied the TSR password connection, making it entirely plausible that this is simply a totally random incident. And no, Goatse and Tubgirl are not connections. If anyone has ACTUAL evidence or information, let's hear it.

[Moune]

No No No, you need to wake up and face the real world.

Moune, no matter how normal you think it is to:
- pull back all public community contact from 'tarnished' people with the 'problem' community and only let one guy handle this image thing, namely the guy with no image problem

Every business, cooperation, government agency and organization of a certain size do exactly this. If they didn’t they’d soon be dead. This is the way things work. Deal with it.

- make sure the lies match so that you can protect TSR

Every business, cooperation, government agency and organization with something to hide do exactly this. If they didn’t they’d soon be dead. This is the way things work. Deal with it.

- make people believe you have no idea what's going on, that you would never agree to what Thomas is accused of doing, and that you are simply naive and believe your family and friends to not have shared the member database while all other options are extremely unlikely if not impossible

You have no idea whatsoever if this is the case or not. Stick to facts when you want to accuse people of devious dealings. You own personal speculation is not enough – not to mention that – at least to me – your speculation seem rather farfetched considering what we know of Johan so far.

… participate in one atrocity that's been …

(Emphasis added by me)
Oh, come off it. Atrocities are massacres, genocide, mass rape, concentration camps and the like. NOT the sharing of private information or hacking a few websites. Man, you’re being twice as manipulative as I’ve ever seen Inge Jones be.

Responsible? Like when johan and his brother shared the personal details of their members with FA's? I bring it up (yet again) to point out that we're not dealing with particularly "responsible" individuals.

Snarky, please read what I actually write – especially since you’re even quoting me. I said ‘What No No No is describing’ is normal and responsible behaviour. I never said TSR is responsible. Nor the sharing of personal details.

They wouldn't have to be "constantly" discussing it in order for coconut's accusations to be correct.

Of course not, if what Coconut is talking about is what No No No is describing in the post I referred to above. Which – I repeat – is completely normal and responsible behaviour. So what’s the problem here?

If you can present time cards which show when various staff members at TSR punch in and out, you might have a point. Otherwise, I've worked well past midnight on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS. So, yeah, it happens.

No doubt it happens that people work late and until after midnight. But Johan only posts here or on MATY when there’s an issue, and you’re not going to tell me that the whole TSR management + whatever FA’s are supposed to be in Team Johan decides to all work until after midnight because a bunch of pirates are in a TSR uproar – for the umpteenth time in a year.

I think the coder gives a damn, because anybody would eventually get fed up with the accusations levelled against TSR. Particularly if you actually thought they were wrong.

I'm an "anybody" and, strangely enough, I'm not fed up with the accusations against TSR (at least not in the way I think you might mean). What I'm fed up with are the actions of TSR.

You know very well what my meaning was with that. But if anybody is at the risk of misunderstanding let me clarify by changing it to “because anybody who were at the receiving end of the accusations levelled against TSR would eventually get fed up with them”.

Really don't need to as I was present when it was being written. Besides, you're putting quite a lot of faith in someone who pretty much yelled BINGO! when she thought she figured out coconut's identity.

I suppose I should have made it more clear that I wasn’t talking to you, but to No No No – and everyone else who still thinks that Johan is a sockpuppet sent here by Thomas & Co. You might also notice that that was a very ‘un-Inge’ remark,  since it actually put a damper on the drama and that is not what Inge usually does. Therefore I’m inclined to believe that what she said happend.

Reason #1) See if he can get any information that might help him discover the identity of coconut. An individual who has placed his paysite in a compromising position on more than one occasion.

Reason #2)Do whatever he can to discredit coconut, the ONLY reliable source of information coming from TSR.

Reason #3) Do whatever he can do to cause trouble at PMBD, the site that is biting into the profits of his family's cashcow.

Those are just three reasons right off the top of my head, Moune. .

And none of those reasons are any good. Whatever else you can say about Thomas he’s not all that dumb. He knows that 1) Coconut is too smart to do anything to reveal herself here, no matter how much he tries to provoke her. 2) Nobody here is going to believe anything he says to discredit Coconut no matter how convincing he tries to be. 3) There is NO WAY he can cause trouble at PMBD. It is known to the whole community that we do that all by ourselves.

Which is exactly why it would be in his interest to send a representative to make his case. Regardless, I'm not here to debate issues with Thomas or ANY of his  representatives, I'm here to help stop nefarious paysite activities. .

Well, at least we agree on that very last sentence. But we’re never going to stop nefarious paysite activities unless we tackle that battle in a reasonably sensible and fact-based fashion. Exaggerations do not help the cause. Nor does unfounded speculation. I imagine that’s also why Pescado has forbidden any kind of false flag operations from this side of the fence. We need to keep the credibility. Simple as that.

[No No No]

No No No, you need to wake up and face the real world.

You need to stop acting hostile and put arguments forth without sounding condescending.  I'm not your enemy. I have a different opinion.

Moune, no matter how normal you think it is to:
- pull back all public community contact from 'tarnished' people with the 'problem' community and only let one guy handle this image thing, namely the guy with no image problem

Every business, cooperation, government agency and organization of a certain size do exactly this. If they didn’t they’d soon be dead. This is the way things work. Deal with it.

Too bad the image TSR is putting out is one of a friendly fansite and a community, huh?

- make sure the lies match so that you can protect TSR

Every business, cooperation, government agency and organization with something to hide do exactly this. If they didn’t they’d soon be dead. This is the way things work. Deal with it.

Too bad the image TSR is putting out is one of  etc etc.
That is not the way things should work for a fansite, sorry. Even if you make money. It's detestable and not normal at all.

- make people believe you have no idea what's going on, that you would never agree to what Thomas is accused of doing, and that you are simply naive and believe your family and friends to not have shared the member database while all other options are extremely unlikely if not impossible

You have no idea whatsoever if this is the case or not. Stick to facts when you want to accuse people of devious dealings. You own personal speculation is not enough – not to mention that – at least to me – your speculation seem rather farfetched considering what we know of Johan so far.

So what do YOU base your assumption on, exactly?
If you don't know what you're talking about, just don't comment on it. I'll do you a favour, read this thread and then make up your mind:  http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,17802.0.html  
Or, not.
 

… participate in one atrocity that's been …

(Emphasis added by me)
Oh, come off it. Atrocities are massacres, genocide, mass rape, concentration camps and the like. NOT the sharing of private information or hacking a few websites. Man, you’re being twice as manipulative as I’ve ever seen Inge Jones be.

*points to upper right corner* Just using whatever termonology's already been used. Really, you need to come off it yourself. You're on a site that deals in exaggerations all the time. Everyone knows paysites are not the end of the world and that Calalilly should not actually be killed (can already feel a Pescado comment coming). You just need something to nitpick about.
 
Look, I have to say one thing. You're adding sneers and sarcasm to your argumentation where's it's completely unnessecary. Just putting down arguments would have been plenty, but it seems you have the need to be condescending to put more power to your arguments.
I don't need the feeling I'm fighting someone when I'm just discussing with someone. And I definately don't like the fact that I've been responding to you the same way, so I apologize for that. But this way of discussing things is really tiring, so if you can stop adding the little jabs, it would be great. If you cannot, my discussion with you just ends here. Frankly, I don't agree with you and I don't really care what you think anymore, because of how you act.

[Witchboy]

Seems are friendly neighborhood hacker is at it again. This time they hit Basic for Sims. I won't bother to post the info but you can read all about it at BPS.

http://blackpearlsims.com/showthread.php?t=35011

[ShanOw]

Urgh! I really do feel sorry for her, but come on now people

Site owners, CHANGE YOUR FUCKING PASSWORDS!!!!1EINZ