NEW TSR LEGAL THREAT!

[raebchen]

So, you wouldn't even be able to download your own items if you wanted to (except for the free sub day)?

[kenmtl]

First thing I would do is to write them saying that you as the creator would like your content to remain free.  Then say the lots contain items from other creators that also want their content to remain free. Considering how religiously they're clinging to that Maxoid's statement that creators have the right to decide how their content gets shared, they really have no choice in the matter. Unless of course they're absolutely and completely full of shit and have no intention of honouring those ideals on their own site. Which would be my guess.

Throw the ball at them and see if they catch it. 

Whatcha gonna do there Tommyboy, we'll be watching this one.

[neriana]

I do like those houses, lewisb. And yeah, what kenmtl said.

[lewisb]

I will be writing a letter as soon as I finish using my "free day".  Don't know if that will put me on watch, but I really want to contribute.  I just don't know how, I don't have monies now, but I want to give back to the community that I have taken from and love. 

So, you wouldn't even be able to download your own items if you wanted to (except for the free sub day)?

Right! I wasn't. I really lulz!

EDIT: Found what to do. I looked right over it. duh

[Saraswati]

I think they usually only put non-FA stuff on subscriber if you've used FA content in the lot.. Correct me if I'm wrong here?

[CatOfWar]

lewisb Do point out that as the creator you want your stuff to be free.  However, TSR will probably tell you that you uploaded stuff on their site after aggreeing to their terms of use (they can do whatever the hell they want with your stuff).  So to counter that, tell them that the lots also contain items from other free creators, and those creators did NOT agree to TSR's terms.  I assume that last bit is correct, these were non-TSR creators?  Thank you for showing us what TSR did with your lots.  My guess is if something free is pretty and popular, they make it pay.

[lewisb]

That's the thing, I didn't use T$R stuff on the first lot. The second lot had a terrain by cyclonesue that was free and in the content comments she said upload with lots and use as you like.  I am always careful like that.

Oops, sorry nerianna, I missed your comment. Thanks so much.

Thanks CatOfWar, I will keep that in mind.

[paperbeth]

My step-mother is an executive at a very large company that investigates corporations for fraud, scams, copyright infringement, and many other things. I described to her what has been going on in the sims community. She is not familiar with the sims at all, so I told her all about the game and what custom content is, and what meshes and texture maps are. I showed her EA's EULA, and the screen shots from coconut, and a whole lot more. She's pretty smart, so she understood the situation quickly.

She pointed me to this:   http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/thomasPlea.pdf
and this:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink

She said she'd search around for some more relevant links to send to us.
She also said she would consider taking it to her higher-ups if she finds enough precedents, like the ones in the links above. No guarantees though.
Still, the info on the goverment site is very encouraging to say the least.

And then I found this to be interesting, especially the flag and the fact that it is Sweden: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pro_piracy_demonstration.jpg

And look at this:    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez#Legality

*edited multiple times to add new stuff I found*

[Quorneater]

The bottom line is not a legal case; it's whether one's host is going to respond to the email (for whatever reason they read into it) by closing the hosting account, and/or whether one's ISP is going to to terminate one's internet access, perhaps just for an easy life.  So it does no good to discuss the academic merits of the legal threat, you just have to pick the right host or ISP, one who rolls their eyes at all the posturing and goes on taking your money and providing the service.

[Skadi]

paperbeth: I would love to see TSR indicted for fraud or something along those lines. I'm sure they have partaken in enough shady activities to warrant it.

[eternal_darkness]

They really don't learn do they? "Lets have PMBD's host close their account, that'll solve everything!", epic fail. They got Coconut's blog taken down, only to see it be put back up on a different browser within 24 hours or less. Reflexsims forum, shut down by a T$R lackey, was up and running within a few days. Given those examples, you would think that they would stop the "whining to web hosts" tactic, as it obviously doesn't work.

[Darqstar]

They really don't learn do they? "Lets have PMBD's host close their account, that'll solve everything!", epic fail. They got Coconut's blog taken down, only to see it be put back up on a different browser within 24 hours or less. Reflexsims forum, shut down by a T$R lackey, was up and running within a few days. Given those examples, you would think that they would stop the "whining to web hosts" tactic, as it obviously doesn't work.

But it does, at least for a bit.  Every time someone shuts them down, there is a wait for a new host to be found.  There is an annoyance factor too, because while the person is looking for a new place, that's probably less time they're working on taking down TSR.

It also is good PR for them. "Well look, Coconut MUST be full of it, because her journal is always in violation of terms and is canceled!"  Yes, we know that a lot of websites would rather lay down and die, then fight to protect their client's rights. 

The backfire though, with Coconut, is that TSR hunted her and hunted her until she came here, where she's got a lot more freedom.  Yes, that's a backfire on TSR, but again, it gives them credibility with their customers who are on the fence, but leaning towards them.  "Well, Coconut must be wrong, because she's been kicked off of all these sites!"  Notice how TSR has never mentioned in a public forum that they are single handedly responsible for getting Coconut off of every host she's been on.  Nope, they talk to their customers about her, as if she's a silly little annoyance.  "Oh, she's just an embittered baby who we wouldn't let be an FA, so she's having a temper tantrum about it!" is their attitude.  They try to make it sound like they can hardly be bothered.

Yet they were so not  bothered that they felt the need to follow her around and threaten every place she went with "legal action."  They were so not bothered that they even got Paleoanth shut down from Live Journal for posting nothing but a few messages.   Yeah, that's amazingly not bothered.

Some of these ISP's need to grow a spine and do some checking before they just delete.  Especially Livejournal.  It used to be that some kid could publish the name and phone number of another user, enouraging everyone to call this person and harass them, and the worst he got was suspended for a couple days, then bang, got his journal back.   And this happened several times.  Now it's like anyone can say, "Legal action!" and livejournal just deletes them.

I wish I had a server in the United States that I could put a mirror of Coconut's journal on, just so I could say, "Forgive me for taking so long to respond, but after reading your threat, I was too busy laughing my ass off to get back to you.  Good luck with your lawsuit!"   

[eternal_darkness]

They really don't learn do they? "Lets have PMBD's host close their account, that'll solve everything!", epic fail. They got Coconut's blog taken down, only to see it be put back up on a different browser within 24 hours or less. Reflexsims forum, shut down by a T$R lackey, was up and running within a few days. Given those examples, you would think that they would stop the "whining to web hosts" tactic, as it obviously doesn't work.

But it does, at least for a bit.  Every time someone shuts them down, there is a wait for a new host to be found.  There is an annoyance factor too, because while the person is looking for a new place, that's probably less time they're working on taking down TSR.

It also is good PR for them. "Well look, Coconut MUST be full of it, because her journal is always in violation of terms and is canceled!"  Yes, we know that a lot of websites would rather lay down and die, then fight to protect their client's rights. 

The backfire though, with Coconut, is that TSR hunted her and hunted her until she came here, where she's got a lot more freedom.  Yes, that's a backfire on TSR, but again, it gives them credibility with their customers who are on the fence, but leaning towards them.  "Well, Coconut must be wrong, because she's been kicked off of all these sites!"  Notice how TSR has never mentioned in a public forum that they are single handedly responsible for getting Coconut off of every host she's been on.  Nope, they talk to their customers about her, as if she's a silly little annoyance.  "Oh, she's just an embittered baby who we wouldn't let be an FA, so she's having a temper tantrum about it!" is their attitude.  They try to make it sound like they can hardly be bothered.

Yet they were so not  bothered that they felt the need to follow her around and threaten every place she went with "legal action."  They were so not bothered that they even got Paleoanth shut down from Live Journal for posting nothing but a few messages.   Yeah, that's amazingly not bothered.

Some of these ISP's need to grow a spine and do some checking before they just delete.  Especially Livejournal.  It used to be that some kid could publish the name and phone number of another user, enouraging everyone to call this person and harass them, and the worst he got was suspended for a couple days, then bang, got his journal back.   And this happened several times.  Now it's like anyone can say, "Legal action!" and livejournal just deletes them.

I wish I had a server in the United States that I could put a mirror of Coconut's journal on, just so I could say, "Forgive me for taking so long to respond, but after reading your threat, I was too busy laughing my ass off to get back to you.  Good luck with your lawsuit!"  

I agree, the whining thing with Coconut worked; But this is Livejournal  we're talking about. They've gotten too popular for their own good and want to protect their reputation, kind of like T$R . I don't think  time would not be wasted working on taking down T$R if PMBD's host gave them the boot. PMBD has a lot more support behind it than does T$R, and that support extends outside of this forum. Forum or no, they will probably never prevent their files being shared. Music industry tried it, movie industry tried it, and they both failed. The same will happen to T$R, its really a matter of when they quit attacking others for it.

[dstar]

The problem with LJ is that they are no longer owned by the original company- they got bought by some corporation or other a couple of years ago and now rather than simply promoting social networking as they used to do- they are in it for the money- which means like TSR they are in it to protect their bottom line- which means that anything offensive to anyone is likely to be banned and or deleted because the mommies of all the kiddies that shouldn't have accounts are bitching about canceling paid memberships.

[snowball]

Everything is about money  Sometimes I wish things weren't. Things that are done just for money tends to suck real bad, big time.

Like for example... hmm... let me think... tsr? EA?