TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[dietofworms]

Agreed.  Johan's whole demeanor is different from Thomas'.  I can't say what Johan knows, doesn't know, or doesn't care about, but the vibe I get is different--his words don't slime right off the page.  I fault Thomas, directly or indirectly, for most of the  bad stuff that's gone on at TSR.  Before he took over, yeah it was a paysite, but it was a much more reasonable place.  

[kenmtl]

Slightly off topic but still. Good catch at GOS. They really need to stop this, it's starting to get redikulous. Let's see if all the comments get baleeted yet again.

In all fairness, TSR can't really "stop" this because it is the behavior of a random user. Additionally, it's somewhat of a gray area, anyway: Bruno apparently never bothered to update his stuff, apparently having gone AWOL months ago, and in any event, his MTS2 profile granted permission for reuse. On the other hand, the TSR creator denied having used these textures, which means either they are stolen secondhand (apparently this item is ripped off a lot), or that he is a lying weasel. Both are entirely plausible.

Fair enough and ya I was unclear. The "they" I was referring to are the uploaders not TSR per se. It's happened a few times since #3 came out.  I know TSR can't possibly control everything all the time, so ya I agree with you on that. So just to be clear, I have no problems with conversions of any kind or from anywhere. Just be respectful and do so with credit given. It's really not that hard to do and no one would have a problem with it.

However Bruno does in fact have a clear policy for anyone who cares to look. It states in part:
Uploading terms:
    * Upload to Free sites only.
With my recolours:
    * You may re-use my textures for unrelated projects.
General terms:
    * Please give credit with a link when using my work.
    * Onoz!! Zmobies!!!

[whiterider]

I wonder when TSR deleted their "report item" button, and when they decided that you should be able to register even if your password and verify password fields don't match...

[paperbeth]

Why is Johan, a technician, here at all, playing the part of PR?
Two words:  plausible deniability

No, I will come to his defence here.  As I have explained before, we often find ouselves sitting in Delphy's chat room at the same time.  Johan expressed a view that some of the statements on this forum and MATY were unfair to TSR and I suggested he come to the forum and try to sort it out.  Simple as!  I don't think his appearance here has been masterminded by Thomas etc at all.  And I am not convinced the TSR owners agree totally on every decision.   Not that he's come straight out and said so, but I get that impression.

Agreed.  Johan's whole demeanor is different from Thomas'.  I can't say what Johan knows, doesn't know, or doesn't care about, but the vibe I get is different--his words don't slime right off the page.  I fault Thomas, directly or indirectly, for most of the  bad stuff that's gone on at TSR.  Before he took over, yeah it was a paysite, but it was a much more reasonable place. 

I'm not saying that this is part of some master plan. I think it is more a matter of convenience. Anytime something happens and fingers are being pointed at TSR, Johan shows up to try to get information and maybe do some damage control. But he always seems to be clueless when we have any questions for him. Johan apparently does not think the same way as the rest of those at TSR. Perhaps he simply cannot fathom such behavior from people so close to him. I'm saying that they know that about him, so it's convenient to just let him act as PR on his own accord. He can honestly say that he doesn't know how Atwa snuck in, or how she became an FA again and again, or how she got a hold of the list. I believe he really doesn't know. But I also believe that it provides a way for TSR to manipulate our emotions. You see how people who were all ready to lay into Johan, now seem to be almost defending him because of his more pleasant demeanor. If anyone else from TSR tried to come here for info, they would be attacked immediately and the attacks would only get worse the longer they stayed. But Johan does not receive such harsh treatment and distrust. I am sure that Thomas and friends are fully aware of this dynamic and are milking it for all it's worth, with or without Johan's knowledge. In this sense he is a tool of plausible deniability whether he knows it or not.

[Paden]

Fuck that noise. This is the same guy responsible for the first tool. You know the one, that had the motherfucking keylogger built into it? From the people I've talked to about it, there's no goddamn way NOT to know you're putting one of those bastards into a program, so the bullshit about it being accidentally built in is just that: BULLSHIT. The whole point of his coming over here is damage control and trying to winkle out just how much dust he can throw into the air so people lose sight of; What TSR did is and was, illegal and immoral. Sympathy for him my fucking Aunt Myrtle's girdle, he's not getting any from me. Again, fuck that noise.

[No No No]

Again people are too quick to assume that Johan knows nothing about anything.
Even if you're eloquent, analytical, and have a calm demeanor, you can still be a liar. Actually, it's much easier to lie. Think about it...

[paperbeth]

I have no sympathy for him either. I agree with you Paden about the keylogger thing. There's no way he couldn't have known about that, but he's still a tool.

I just don't want to see people here bending over for him just because he seems more civil. I still do not trust his motives or his claims of ignorance (when it comes to technical things). But he's not going to admit he knew about the keylogger no matter how much he tries to appear honest. He may be naive, but he's not stupid.

Pirates, do not be lulled by Johan. He does not need our help or our sympathy. If he really wants to be informed, maybe he should ask his brother.

[Paden]

Or, to put it more bluntly: Don't bend over around anyone from TSR or you may well find yourself shafted. You've seen it in the past, you'll see it in the future. Just because someone shows the face of civility doesn't mean they don't wear the mask of deception, snickering at you the whole time they are spewing the scripted lines that have been set out for them to spout.

[paperbeth]

Yes, exactly.

Paden, you certainly have a way with words that is so much clearer than mine. Thank you for saying what I was trying to say.

[Paden]

I'm just feeling rude today, is all. My Friday attitude was late getting here.

[Fran]

Because Thomass does not even dare to show his wanky face in this forum, he sends his little brother in for the task. Call it retroactive PR, and damage control.
That does not mean Johan is clueless. Just that he doesn't have Thomass' cut-throat meanness, yet. He might be "just a technician" but I've found the smarter you are, the more involved your job.. Johan makes TSR work technically.  Thomass spends the money that is brought in by the work Johan does.

But don't be fooled-Johan would not be here if Thomass had not ordered him to be here: "Go to all the community and spread the manure around, thickly. They might even buy it."

It's also called "deniability."

[kenmtl]

Well to be honest, were Thomas to come here it would probably be a complete waste of time. I mean really think about it.

Regardless of anything else I do have to give Johan props for sticking it out for a couple of days. Whether I believe him or not on certain issues is an entirely different matter, but he stayed calm and said what he needed to say in a reasoned and well spoken manner, so ya. I didn't barf.

P.S. Apparently the Bruno texture girl is but a child so I'm chalking it up to simple immaturity. I'm assuming they'll do the right thing.
  

[Missbonbon]

Well to be honest, were Thomas to come here it would probably be a complete waste of time. I mean really think about it.

Regardless of anything else I do have to give Johan props for sticking it out for a couple of days. Whether I believe him or not on certain issues is an entirely different matter, but he stayed calm and said what he needed to say in a reasoned and well spoken manner, so ya. I didn't barf at least.

P.S. Apparently the Bruno texture girl is but a child so I'm chalking it up to simple immaturity. I'm assuming they'll do the right thing.
 

Agreed. If Thomas came here it would have become hell fire and brimstone.

To be honest, I prefer it to be Johan. Not because myself, along with others don't want to rip into Thomas, but it's just overall better. For one, we do not know how many people that frequent TSR, read here. We can always say that no one reads PMBD from TSR, but since this whole fiasco, I have seen more "lurkers" denounce TSR. What's to say that one person teetering on the fence isn't reading as well? And unlike TSR, this debate has provided two sides to the argument. We aren't just passing out the kool aid to sip it down.

In coming over here, there have been several things Johan has said that has been slapped down by other members, Pes, or even based off of what he said himself. I personally believe if people were teetering on the fence, and saw that several of Johan's statements weren't "congruent" or even really assuring, it would help them rethink the paysite debate, and their stance with TSR. Yes it can be deleted, but he basically said that he doesn't know Swedish law for privacy protection, and that before the huge hacking incident, did not have a mostly fail proof security protocol on their customer's information. Not to mention, even said it himself that they felt the sharing of information back in the day was justified. How would  you feel as a TSR customer reading that? Would you feel safe giving TSR your credit card information? Also said that even though their FA's are paid staff, they do not do any background checks whatsoever, and were willing to hand out sensitive information on the drop of a dime. Does that really make someone feel safe?

The way I see it, by him coming here the only thing he's done in my eyes is maybe not totally confirmed for 100% fact that everything coconut reports is true, but she at least has a wider general gist of what's going on behind the scenes than Thomas tries to lead people to believe. Hell, wasn't Thomas and Dot the ones that were chalking up those screenshots of the information sharing thread to be fake, and now we have Johan here basically saying they are true. That's just egg on the face on TSR right there.

So I personally don't see the people that are willing to discuss things as kissing his ass, or feeling a fake sense of safety. I just see it as trying to find out more about issues, discussing the finer details, and maybe even trying to help Johan see that mostly Thomas's name is used in association with TSR, but in reality if Thomas goes down in the fiery ball of flames, Johan goes with him. Not that I'm trying to advocate "saving" TSR, but if by having a conversation here has made Johan re-think their security issues, and actually take a moment to research their laws and make sure they are up to code, is protecting everyone in the community. Not that it's a guarantee that they won't get hacked or leak information again that is.

For two, if Thomas came over here, there would be no logical debate. I really don't even see Thomas and Pes talking to each other without someone making potshots. Not that that is a bad thing, but it definitely helps our cause when someone can be proven logically wrong, rather than seeing twenty people dog pile on Thomas, and then him running back to TSR to whine about the "mean dirty pirates" *sniff sniff* 

Again people are too quick to assume that Johan knows nothing about anything.
Even if you're eloquent, analytical, and have a calm demeanor, you can still be a liar. Actually, it's much easier to lie. Think about it...

I'm not sure if your lumping me into that general statement about "people," but allow me to clarify. I would not believe for a second that Johan does not know what his brother does. Or even what has/does/or will happen behind the scenes. I personally believe that if Johan does know something, he will not admit it here. I don't take him to be as stupid as Thomas to do something that foolish. But if Johan is lying, there will only come a time and a place before the lies catch up to the story.

But don't be fooled-Johan would not be here if Thomass had not ordered him to be here: "Go to all the community and spread the manure around, thickly. They might even buy it."

It's also called "deniability."

With this I do agree with. I don't believe for one second that Thomas did not send Johan here. For all those years, for Johan to just pop up is a bit suspicious. But it is also a blessing in disguise. Look at how Pes disproved Johan, on multiple accounts. Even Johan has slipped up with his own statements, such as the tax issue. I think Thomas sending Johan here will inevitably do more damage than good, and with statements already made, I think the damage has already begun in motion.

[Sigmund]

P.S. Apparently the Bruno texture girl is but a child so I'm chalking it up to simple immaturity. I'm assuming they'll do the right thing.

Interesting. Hopefully it was just ignorance, rather than intentionally stealing. Most of the comments seem to be fairly direct rather than bashing, so hopefully she'll get the message and take it down. Some of the comments made me roll my eyes, though:

They are simillar [sic], but, I see many differences in both.

Yes. They are different colors. How on earth did anyone make the connection? /sarcasm

[WedgewoodBlue]

I took everything Johan said with a grain of salt. From the beginning, it was clear his agenda was damage control and, to a certain extent to see what we knew. When he kept to his position that he trusted those specific individuals who he has given access to the database, it began to wear a wee bit thin for me. He may feel he knows them, but he clearly has no idea of what they are up to. From the sounds of it, he doesn't want to know either.

I have to admit, I am now anticipating the return of Atwa.......what I am not clear on is why she is so damn determined to be a part of TSR. Is it just her obsession with Thomas, or her desire for revenge against those who she feels wronged her, or a combination of both? And you have to wonder what Thomas was thinking when he published that hacked petition of names. You'd think by now that with Coconut reporting on the goings on at TSR, that this was going to blow up and become public knowledge, and that he would have at least had the brains to consider that.
 Oh, duh ......I mentioned Thomas and brains, in the same sentence, silly me.

Whether or not anything comes from this latest TSR fiasco remains to be seen. Like so many other atrocities, this one too will more than likely fade with time and only come up when TSR commits yet another colossal blunder. I'm starting to think they (TSR) cannot live without the drama, and subscribe to "Any type of publicity, good or bad is desirable."

One of  the things I noticed throughout all of this, is that Johan did ignore so many questions and posts directed at him. He left many key questions blowing in the wind and it would not have hurt his cause to address many of them. He didn't necessarily have to give insider information, but the fact that he disregarded as much as he did, is very telling.