TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[Paden]

Johan, you're a mindless drone, you know that? Stick to coding, it could be something you're good at but then again, with what you did with the first version of the TSR tool and (supposedly) not knowing there were keyloggers in that, I wonder about that as well.

[Quorneater]

no artist have access to the member database or other sensitive information though.

They may not be able to access the database themselves, but when Thomas decides to inform them of some of this information that's just as bad as if they did!

This is why TSR becomes suspected of releasing this type of information - it is because they have done it before, and still have not said they regret it or will not do it again.   Once sensitive information is released outside of the membership administrators, it is as good as published, as you cannot guess about the moral standards of your FAs and SAs.   You hire them as artists, not as trusted membership administrators.

We have no reason to run background checks on all artists.

And that finally illustrates what was wrong with giving them personal members' info.   Basically you don't know if they can be trusted with it.

[kenmtl]

First: echo thank you for the response. I can appreciate your point of view and your critical thinking on the matter. Showing up at the same time as Johan was confusing a bit as to your motivations but I get it now. We can differ in our opinions but that's cool. Thanks for info about the Purity Project stuff. I have an almost unhealthy stalkerish type relationship with that industrial fan.

Second: lol@Johan for not knowing CarpeDiem was Atwa.  When you say "we didn't know" is that we as in you ?

Third: PMBD is about liberating content for players. All Free All The Time. As it should be. Everything else is just us multitasking when the need arises. FYI you don't see us running over to ATS taking pot shots at Sandy do you?  You might want to ask yourself why that is. In fact we have on couple of occasions let her know that her stuff has shown up on your site. You'll see that in the comments...oh wait...

[johan]

no artist have access to the member database or other sensitive information though.

They may not be able to access the database themselves, but when Thomas decides to inform them of some of this information that's just as bad as if they did!

This is why TSR becomes suspected of releasing this type of information - it is because they have done it before, and still have not said they regret it or will not do it again.   Once sensitive information is released outside of the membership administrators, it is as good as published, as you cannot guess about the moral standards of your FAs and SAs.   You hire them as artists, not as trusted membership administrators.

We have no reason to run background checks on all artists.

And that finally illustrates what was wrong with giving them personal members' info.   Basically you don't know if they can be trusted with it.

It almost sounds like you believe we hand out member information to our FA's on a regular basis? We do not. The event everyone keep referring to took place years ago. It was not without reason, those were names of members who we had found to be sharing our files through the watermark.
What i personally think about it may not reflect our official standing that it was justified. I did think it was at the time.

Since we don't have and never have had access to the petition or whatever it is we couldn't have released it to anyone either way.
 

[Paden]

You mean you don't? Since when? You had no legal right nor justification to hand that information out to ANYONE, that stuff is protected under laws that maybe you don't comprehend. Idiot. It was wrong, it was illegal. Always has been, and always will be. If you didn't agree then, you should have spoken up then and not waited til things like this came to pass, would have save a lot of garbage in bad feelings and such, but no, you were a mouse instead of a man. And don't give me the crap about your brother running it, you are part of the same team and have a voice in the company. At the least you could have taken it to someone that has power over him, but you kept your silence then so keep it now.

@Inge, you do realize that Johan will just pretend to be forced to apologize in order to gain some sympathy and try to clear up TSR's reputation a bit, right? It's as simple as that. His apologizing now is not heartfelt, not honest, and definitely not meaningful in the least bit anyway, as it will be a few million times way after the fact, and thus the motive of the apology will be seriously questioned. If it isn't, it ought to be.

Being forced to apologize when you're not actually regretting anything doesn't mean a ruddy thing and we all know it, but hey, it's good for sales, now isn't it?? Specially if the sheeples can see it, am I right? I'm not one to refuse a man's apology, but this is waay too little, waay too late, and waaay too fake. Meh.

[Missbonbon]

To me it doesn't matter if the event took place 6 years ago, or 6 days ago. As I once have seen Pes say, do something once and you show you have the capacity to do it, do something twice and you've developed a habit. (Or something like that.) You have openly admitted to sharing personal information once, and what is to make us believe that you will not do it again?

Not to mention, you still gave out your members personal information to people on your website that you have done no research into. Explain to me how you know whether or not ANY of your FA's are not identity thieves? Explain to me how you, as co-owner of TSR, is supposed to make your "customers" feel better about their personal information. Hell Johan, even if your not handing it out, just the pure fact that your database is unencrypted is just as bad, as we have already seen.

You deny that TSR has been apart of any hackings before, but then explain to me why Thomas's IP was found in Buggybooz log in data?

[Witchboy]

[Pescado]

To me it doesn't matter if the event took place 6 years ago, or 6 days ago. As I once have seen Pes say, do something once and you show you have the capacity to do it, do something twice and you've developed a habit. (Or something like that.)

Actually, it doesn't require two incidents. Only one incident + capability. That automatically makes it a habit. In the cosmological view, everything is homogenous, and therefore, nothing is unique. If it happens, it happens often.

[Sarafina]

@Sarafina
I don't want to be rude but that's not something i want to discuss with you or anyone else here.

Well the reason I asked it is because if you want people to consider you as a serious business, this question would be easy to answer.  I think this is why people start with so much suspicion about your site, because you act like something you may not be. I mean I'm not even asking for detailed info, but a yes or no answer.  If you want to be treated professionally, you must be a professional and it's not looking like you are one.

[Missbonbon]

To me it doesn't matter if the event took place 6 years ago, or 6 days ago. As I once have seen Pes say, do something once and you show you have the capacity to do it, do something twice and you've developed a habit. (Or something like that.)

Actually, it doesn't require two incidents. Only one incident + capability. That automatically makes it a habit. In the cosmological view, everything is homogenous, and therefore, nothing is unique. If it happens, it happens often.

Bah! Thank you for correcting that. My mind was a bit muggled about what the original saying of it was.

[coconut]

 I am here Witchboy  

I would like to add a few things to this discussion.

  Firstly regarding Johan and his ‘bravery‘ in coming forward to answer your questions: Do not be fooled. Most of the replies he has written here have been discussed at length prior to their posting. Replies have not all come from Johan, but rather from 'Team Johan' which consists of more than just Johan and his twin brother Tom. His mission here is simple, to find out exactly what I have, and who I am. They know that by releasing exactly what I have will expose my identity and prevent me from finding out about any future dirty deeds, it will also give them a heads up on how to deny it. If ( for example ) I provided a screencap of Atwa revealing that she got the list from Tom, Team Johan would post that Atwa lied, and then narrow down the exact wording of the conversation to work out the leak. If ( for example ) I were to post a screencap of Tom admitting he sent the list, Team Johan would post that the screencaps were fake, and again use these caps to narrow down who Tom was talking to. For this reason I am not prepared to release anything that can be traced to me or my informants just now, however providing such proof to legal organisations is a different matter. I would not hesitate, they could easily confirm that what I have is genuine, plus it would not matter if I was exposed at that stage, because once a genuine legal agency gets involved, there would be no need for me to stay hidden anymore.

  Re Atwa: Team Johans account of her ‘sneaking’ in is a down and out lie. This is not 2nd hand knowledge, I know this for a fact. TSR were fully aware of her account, as was Johan himself.  They even removed her country flag from her profile in order to hide her identity. It will not be long before that particular snake raises its head again, and Team Johan will have their statement ready.

  Re Tax & legalities of the TSR business: Interesting reply from Team Johan, any legit business would reply with something along the lines of “of course we are legal, and of course we pay tax” but Team Johan chose a more shady approach. I think it is time I did some enquiries along those lines.  

  Re Proof: I have proof to back up everything I say in my blog, however I do not have any proof that the petition was hacked, or if it was or was not sent to EA. I have never claimed to have any proof in that matter.  Tom may indeed be telling the truth that he in fact did get the list from EA, but it is my personal opinion that he is lying. I believe the community when they say that the list is now longer than the one TSR has. I can not see them sending the unfinished petition to EA. As I already reported, Tom says he got the list from EA in March, the community now report that the petition was hacked in March. Perhaps Team Johan would like to insinuate EA hacked it?  Any legal action will involve asking EA if they have seen the petition, and if they passed it on to any member of TSR. Either way, that does not excuse TSR for distributing it, nor falsely accusing everyone on that list of piracy.

And finally to Team Johan,

The event everyone keep referring to took place years ago. It was not without reason, those were names of members who we had found to be sharing our files through the watermark.
What i personally think about it may not reflect our official standing that it was justified.

 As I remember the official TSR standing at the time was that the 'event' never happened and that I had faked all those screencaps, Your brother must be poking you in the ribs right now, stick to the script.

[WedgewoodBlue]

@WedgewoodBlue
We were told by the ones we talked to at EA that they were going to change the EULA for the next expansion pack. As it turned out that never happened but we were not deliberately lying.

Excuse me??? Your meetings that you claim took place with EA, those meeting happened in 2007. The letter sent to Pescado's ISP is dated 2009-04-08. Since the EULA did not change, your letter of 2009-04-08 does most certainly contain a falsehood.
Quit while you believe you are ahead, you are making a fool out of yourself.

[SnarkyShark]

Regarding atwa/carpe diem
It's not strange at all that she managed to hide using a different name. We have no reason to run background checks on all artists.

LOL- Actually, it is very strange that you aren't taking any sort of precautions. Especially considering your story about how accounts on TSR had been hacked into not all that long ago.  In fact, not only is it strange, but it's also kind of pathetically lax on your part.  It's almost as if your admitting that you never really had anything to worry about at all.

We were told by the ones we talked to at EA that they were going to change the EULA for the next expansion pack. As it turned out that never happened but we were not deliberately lying.

Well, actually you were lying seeing how it was never changed and you claimed that it would be. See how that works, johan? When you claim that something which isn't true ...  LOL- oh, never mind.

Have you seen any kind of evidence for our "history of hacking" that i assume is what makes it likely that we hacked the petition? More than just Pescados stories that is.
If not, what makes it likely he would be telling the truth? Isn't it in his interest to make us look guilty considering what PMBD stands for?

LOL - Duh. Your motivation for lying would be much greater than Pescado's considering the little pixel empire you and your family have going on. By the way, judging by your recent activity, you really are MUCH more interested in this conversation than he is.

I don't want to be rude but that's not something i want to discuss with you or anyone else here.

Rude? No worries there. Personally, I don't think TeamJohan has enough personality to pull off rude. But hey! You guys do a great boring and manipulative!

[silvamord]

[quote author=johan link=topic=2399.msg156580#msg156580 date=1260397954

@Moune
Have you seen any kind of evidence for our "history of hacking" that i assume is what makes it likely that we hacked the petition? More than just Pescados stories that is.
If not, what makes it likely he would be telling the truth? Isn't it in his interest to make us look guilty considering what PMBD stands for?

[/quote]

Would you like to see the nasty, vicious little keylogger and a host of other spyware and malware I've got isolated that came from two of TSR's files? Or do you claim that
spyware, malware, and keylogging programs are completely different and not also classified as hacking? I mean, I could have sworn that keylogger programs were for the most
part illegal. And there's no doubt it came from The Shit Resource.

And you don't need "Pescado's stories" to make you look guilty - you lot incriminate yourselves. Besides, from what I've seen of Pesc so far, he couldnt be more of a straight shooter even
if he attached a steel metre-rule to the side of a gun. >< He doesn't bullshit. He's viciously honest. Viciously honest to the point of sheer barbaricness .

Going back to an earlier remark by you, though, you stated that you disagreed with the description of TSR's business practices and ethics as questionable. How is sharing information
of your artists without their express, explicit and WRITTEN permission non-questionable? No matter what argument you use to justify what was done - wah wah wah,
they wuz' stealinz teh filezorz - what you've done was illegal and I bet your brother bloody well knows that it was, and he's shitting himself now. Hence why you've come
over to play knight in shining armour. Or should that be knight in stupid armour?

Questionable as well is the refusal to answer Sarafina's inquery. Legitimate businesses with nothing to hide have transparent business practices and models where information on tax,
pay, procedure and other things are readily available on inquest. If you lot weren't guilty of hacking, exploitation, violation of the EULA and routine violation of intellectual property laws,
you'd have been able to prove it long before now and put the issue to rest. It says a  lot that instead of being transparent and honest, you run around trying to put out the constant
fires while wearing your fire blanket of fuckwittery.


Now.. I'm going back to lurking. Go jump, Johan. It'll make the world a brighter place. And take Thomass with you.

[Quorneater]

It almost sounds like you believe we hand out member information to our FA's on a regular basis? We do not. The event everyone keep referring to took place years ago. It was not without reason, those were names of members who we had found to be sharing our files through the watermark.
What i personally think about it may not reflect our official standing that it was justified. I did think it was at the time.

Since we don't have and never have had access to the petition or whatever it is we couldn't have released it to anyone either way.

The sharing of the data with FAs may well have had an emotional justification - I can quite understand the artists and your company feeling very wronged by people sharing the content in an unauthorised way.   I personally have never used anything from TSR I have not paid for, nor shared what I have paid for with anyone else, and I do not support the "pirate" activities of some of the other members of this site in any way.   However, when I give my credit card and personal details to a company, I do so in the expectation that they will have a code of conduct relating to how they handle this data.  In the UK, if you suspect a customer to be performing criminal activities such as software piracy, you give their details to the police, not to your suppliers (in this case freelance content creators).   What is the Swedish law on data protection?

I don't necessarily believe *personally* that this particular episode is triggered by another release of personal data by TSR.  But it's not surprising if people begin by pointing the finger at a person or company who has been guilty of it previously, especially when that person or company continues to consider it correct to have done so.