TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[Missbonbon]

As for the 'Independent Expressions' set right above, I don't think that can be called stealing from anybody but Maxis. It's basically just a question of copying Maxis meshes and then stretching or reducing them a bit. Anybody could have come up with that idea - if it can even be called an idea.

Even though it is true that it may not take that much to create expansion sets of windows/doors, it was still done by Marylou and Numenor before Spaik. The theft is more or less referred to them because Spaik's set I think has only one or two windows that differ from theirs or is not similar to theirs.

I have heard that Shakeshaft's set is still up but cannot seem to locate them. Just curious if Buggy has slapped TSR with EA's "clarification" that they need to respect her wishes or not.

[HugeLunatic]

Thank you Missbonbon.  And yes Moune one is copying Maxis, in idea and sometimes mesh. Some create wholly new meshes.  But so many meshes were originally by Maxis and just changed a little and still called new.  I myself prefer to use Maxis and tweak a little since I like to have full sets.  I have made all new meshes, and I think that is easier than trying to redo a Maxis one.  I was just curious if it was the same person who did both.  It would show a true lack of unique ideas.

[dietofworms]

Deleted because I had wrong information.

[Paleoanth]

No, Jass used a FA mesh.

[Moune]

Sorry, HugeLunatic, I should have used the word 'design' instead of 'idea'. My bad. Because I certainly don't think there's anything wrong or 'less' with using a Maxis mesh as your base. I have bits and pieces of Maxis meshes in my stuff as well. I was more trying to say that making the approximate same changes to a Maxis mesh as another creator does not constitute stealing.

Granted, if Spaik's tall window had been scaled with the exact same amount on the Y axis as Numenor and MaryLou's, and the privacy windows had the same dimensions too etc. then there would be a problem. But merely having the same idea (there it was  ) is not the same as stealing. I mean, if I decided to make a series of Maxis Independent Expressions windows matches tomorrow would you accuse me of stealing too?

Edit: Spelling

[dstar]

That is actually true about for the majority of FA"s over there- about half the time you look at the clothes " Evi : Needs mesh by Katelys"  " Ulkhrnsn :Needs Mesh by Lianaa" " Kately's: Needs Mesh by Sims 2 Sisters" I think that they virtually use the same six meshes for everything and the only one that ever, ever includes his own meshes (or even makes his own meshes other than Lianaa) is Openass Jack. But, as for literally stealing each others meshes - when it is other FA"s or SA's from TSR  they seem to be very careful to credit each others with stuff like " Evi Recoloring Katelys" etc.  Its only when they are using meshes  from others sites or ideas from other creators that they don't credit them or even mention them.  (Shakeshaft is a Thief- Just a Daily Reminder- Thieves Should be Punished: TSR the only Business where you Steal and they Don't Fire your ASS: Hacking is illegal and poor computer etiquette)

While I am sure that theft of others work occurs on free as well as pay sites it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem.Most of the attitude is positive towards sharing ideas or using each others meshes -with credit and not on paysites E.G - I like your idea, or mesh and develop an idea of my own based on your idea, or wish to add on to and improve your idea (like HugeLunatics Holy Simoly and Ikea stuff) than I say hey I like that idea - can I add onto/use the same idea/ create my own idea based on your mesh or idea. Simple polite - no need for hacking someone elses server or stealing their shit- Ask the answers either yes or no- if yes original freesite creators gets cred from other freesite creator when stuff is posted on freesite- end of story.


They also tend to tweak EA Meshes a lot (Bunny and Simal10 need I say more, not to mention, Windkeeper/Mutske/Spaik/Shakeshaft/MSBarrows/SimAddict99). This in and of itself is not wrong- Alias, Huge Lunatic, and the creators at Sims2Code do (and much better than any of the above listed creators) But, they dont' profit by as much as one single penny from tweaked, or re-colored Maxis Meshes- Their work is 100% free. posted at free sites- It is done simply because they want more complete sets of toys to play with and they enjoy doing it- Not because they will get paid 500 $ for a tweaked set of EA meshes  but because they enjoy it .

[Scurvy Cat]

When people complain that they haven't been informed that their passwords have been compromised the response is "Only a few FA's accounts were affected."
Buggyboos is not and never has been a TSR FA.
QED--Either TSR is lying about the hacking or about how many users's signons were compromised.  Your choice.

The hacking never happened. Even Johan denied this event ever occurred. Therefore, everything else which follows is a lie. It therefore follows from this alone that they were involved, or else they would not have needed to make up excuses for why they were somehow not involved!

Pes, I have no doubt of that.  But to those who believe their current cliams of being hacked--particullarly that on their April Fools Myths page-- I put up this arguement because it's a little easier for non-techies to follow than the intricacies of IP addresses and proxies.

[Delphy]

When people complain that they haven't been informed that their passwords have been compromised the response is "Only a few FA's accounts were affected."
Buggyboos is not and never has been a TSR FA.
QED--Either TSR is lying about the hacking or about how many users's signons were compromised.  Your choice.

The hacking never happened. Even Johan denied this event ever occurred. Therefore, everything else which follows is a lie. It therefore follows from this alone that they were involved, or else they would not have needed to make up excuses for why they were somehow not involved!

Actually, read back on what Johan said.  He said that what *I* said never happened - and what I said was that the *entire* userbase was vulnerable.  What actually happened was that multiple Staff and FA accounts *where* compromised.  So in essence, it was I who misinterpreted the original statement.

I have pages upon pages of log files, database dumps and so on - all from TSR - all stuff that I have not seen before, but ALL stuff I have verified independantly with my own databases.  I have also corroborated this against independant reports other non-TSR people have told me regarding thier accounts there.  In my mind, the information that I have been sent *is* correct: The hacking *did* happen, TSR did suffer massive security issues, and was repeatedly infiltrated multiple times. 

[Bloody Vane]

So, I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here so let me start by saying I have never even been to TSR except to check out links from here. While I feel bad that Buggy wasn’t given proper credit for her mesh, I feel we are being a smidge hypocritical here. We are so excited that the new EULA for The Sims 3 basically says, you can make content but you agree that making it means anyone can use it for any purpose they want, to justify that file sharing is ok. Well that same new EULA kinda makes what ShakeShaft did okay with them too.

What I mean is that, clearly, taking credit for someone else work is morally wrong, but it isn’t illegal. I think that we should be pointing this out to show that Shakeshit is shady/untrustworthy, more than screaming thief everywhere. (Which I don’t technically believe is an incorrect description. It just feels like to someone outside of our forum, it seems like we talking out both sides of our mouth)


ETA: Of course all the stuff that happened after the report and the hacking of her stuff is even more despicable and 100% indefensible!

[Scurvy Cat]

So, TSR has lied about non-FA accounts not being compromised? 

And Bloody Vane, the point is that TSR is getting money from users for Shakeshafts lapse in ethics.  If it was two free sites the locals here would only regard it as a "hand me the popcorn" event.

[dstar]

I really don't want to get into it here- there are other threads that address this. Filesharing in the legal sense can only be applied to things that are copyrighted-  like a CD, Movie, or Book- Custom Content cannot be copyrighted because the rights to the tools already belong to EA e..g. Bodyshop/Homecrafter- or the programmers who wrote SimPE, CEP and Milkshape 3D (3 of the main cc creation programs). EA does not care if you give the stuff created with their tools away via filesharing or given away on a freesite- In fact they do this all the time on the Exchange the only creators who work ever gets pulled are those of TSR and other paysites- (despite most free creators express wishes that their work not be posted to the exchange because it is not credited and can be x-posted on a paysite without permission or stole)According to the letter of their EULA however you cannot sell them for a profit which is what TSR, Peggy and other paysite creators do.  I would actually suggest heading over to the Sims 2 Community and reading the Great Paysite Debate threads as well as all the stuff you can find here.

 Intellectual property rights really do not apply either except in the ethical sense because it all belongs to EA and they will not do anything to TSR they have basically said that it is up to the Sims 2 community to police their own wrongdoers- which we do every time we choose to download free stuff whenever possible, or to download the paysite stuff that violates EA's EULA from the Booty instead of contributing to their ill gotten gains- besides even if that were the case - MTS2 was still hacked which is highly illegal and involves significant jail time in most countries if it can be proven who did.

Delphy my issue would still be that they had an internal security breach several times- and A. Left peoples private information on the server unencrypted and unsecured and B. That they did not inform anyone except a handful of FA's -- When Mod the Sims was hacked you essentially warned everyone - creator and non-creator alike to make sure we were not using the same passwords at both sites and to be careful- TSR did none of this  and it is a clear message that they don't have the best interests of the community at heart- only their bottom line and saving their own asses.-

[Bloody Vane]

And Bloody Vane, the point is that TSR is getting money from users for Shakeshafts lapse in ethics.  If it was two free sites the locals here would only regard it as a "hand me the popcorn" event.

Which is bullshit, clearly! They shouldn't be able to profit off someone else work period. But they shouldn't be able to profit off their own either because EA should stop them. But if EA's new position is that you don't own your work and allowing it for download mean anyone can use it in any way they wish...

I don't think I explained well. What I was trying to point out was that this is an example of the other shoe dropping on the new EULA. While it clearly supports file-sharing, it now completely negates the whole "respect the creator" or protect the creator's assets. That the new EULA specifically makes this kind of thing okay but no one seems to have noticed.

And no I don't think that is a good thing.

[siberiansunset]

So, I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here so let me start by saying I have never even been to TSR except to check out links from here. While I feel bad that Buggy wasn’t given proper credit for her mesh, I feel we are being a smidge hypocritical here. We are so excited that the new EULA for The Sims 3 basically says, you can make content but you agree that making it means anyone can use it for any purpose they want, to justify that file sharing is ok. Well that same new EULA kinda makes what ShakeShaft did okay with them too.

What I mean is that, clearly, taking credit for someone else work is morally wrong, but it isn’t illegal. I think that we should be pointing this out to show that Shakeshit is shady/untrustworthy, more than screaming thief everywhere. (Which I don’t technically believe is an incorrect description. It just feels like to someone outside of our forum, it seems like we talking out both sides of our mouth)


ETA: Of course all the stuff that happened after the report and the hacking of her stuff is even more despicable and 100% indefensible!

No one here is saying what she did is illegal.(Eula paycrap a different story!) What we are saying though, as you even stated, is that she IS morally wrong for stealing Buggy's work. The whole fact that she did not even contact, credit--do anything proper--and then take Buggy's stuff and post it up as HER own and for PAY, is wrong on many levels. She is shady/untrustworthy because SHAKESHAFT, SHE IS A THIEF. I will call her like I see it, and I don't see how calling her what she is detracts from anything here. No one is talking out their arse, so to speak, and if a peanut is a peanut why call it a walnut or whatever?

[Missbonbon]

Granted, if Spaik's tall window had been scaled with the exact same amount on the Y axis as Numenor and MaryLou's, and the privacy windows had the same dimensions too etc. then there would be a problem. But merely having the same idea (there it was  ) is not the same as stealing. I mean, if I decided to make a series of Maxis Independent Expressions windows matches tomorrow would you accuse me of stealing too?

Having the same idea is not stealing if you can prove you didn't steal. For example, when Jassims had the same costumes as another free site, Jass had to prove that she didn't steal that persons creation. (Which is probably still being questioned.) I wouldn't accuse you of stealing unless Numenor/Marylou/Anyone else in the community could provide proof that your windows differed in meshes/maps/etc. Spaiks don't differ all that much, from what I've read. Apparently very few of her windows actually differ from Numenor's and Marylou's, suggesting that she had borrowed from them.

[HugeLunatic]

Granted, if Spaik's tall window had been scaled with the exact same amount on the Y axis as Numenor and MaryLou's, and the privacy windows had the same dimensions too etc. then there would be a problem. But merely having the same idea (there it was  ) is not the same as stealing. I mean, if I decided to make a series of Maxis Independent Expressions windows matches tomorrow would you accuse me of stealing too?

Nope.  The idea isn't stealing, merely having the same idea.  I never meant to imply that those meshes were stolen either, so my apologies if it sounded like that.  There is always the possibility that two creators will make the same object, especially if it matches Maxis.  I personally do not know all the match stuff that artists do on TSR.  I don't go there to look at what they do.  My IKEA set was never directed at being better than anyone anywhere else, it was just what *I* wanted.  So if I repeat what others have done, it's simply because my scope of download sites is small.  I was simply curious who had done that window set since I couldn't remember.  Everything Shakeshaft has made seems to now be questioned if it is really her meshes.  There have been comparisons to Holy Simoly and Parsimonious meshes regarding Shakeshaft.

Shakeshaft stole the mesh and the texture from someone else, she didn't merely make add-ons to her set. And as dstar pointed out my Holy Simoly add ons have credits to the original mesher and the textures.