TSR Sharing your infomation!

[Solander]

In the end, Solander, anyone here would find it distasteful to post pictures of someone's home just for the hell of it. However as TSR is publically claiming to need money from subs for site costs only, the pictures of the homes count as evidence against that. That's all there is to it. While we value your opinion, discussing it will not really change anything except the length and focus of this thread. Especially after private information being posted, we think things through, you don't have to worry about that. People are very aware.

Time to let it go and focus on what we were talking about earlier. Wich is, TSR's antics

I would be fine to end this discussion. I just wanted to post my position, did so, had some nice hours "chatting" with you guys about different point of view regarding private data and now know much more about the wide variety of definitions of privacy.

[dietofworms]

If anyone did post Thomas' or Atwa's private information, like address, phone number, etc., on this forum, they'd be asked to delete the info in a hearbeat. I don't know of a single case here where off-limits info has been allowed to remain up.

I don't think Solander's sympathies lie with TSR,  I think he's making a well reasoned case.  I don't agree with him because I don't consider a photo of one's house to be "private," especially if it was posted on an internet forum.  (Unless of course it was a safe house for secret agents or something like that ).  But I think the general principle holds, that it's not ethical to share strictly private data.  Which is why WE don't do that.

And as for Thomas' having a second house, well I do think that fact is irrelevant to our interests.  Who knows how he paid for it? Maybe he won the lottery, or inherited the money.  We can't assume that he used TSR money to buy it.

 I agree that we shouldn't be mocking physical characteristics of Thomas, Atwa, or anyone else, or diagnosing mental illness over the web. This has been bothering me for a long time.  It dilutes and trivializes the important things we're arguing against.

[Paden]

One thing I'd like to say: Thomas WAS going to use the name of the sick man, what he's suffering from and all of that in a bid to get more money. That is private information and off limits. This is obviously something the guy doesn't want known, or more people in the community would know who it is and what he's suffering from. Thomas, on the other hand, shows around pictures, that he knows will be shown to others outside of his sooper seekrit forum, of his second home to people that work for him, because he's bragging and wants praise for getting money for something that it's illegal to sell. I see where you're coming from, Solander, and I respect how you feel. I just have a hard time feeling anything for Thomas aside from repugnance and a desire for him to be shut down cold. I somehow doubt that EA Games would pat him on the head and say, "Good boy, you made enough money selling something that you don't own to build a second home! Here, have a cookie!" It's my hope that someone from that company will SEE those pics and start to have thoughts about getting into bed with such a slime ball and really look at the kind of person they give their unspoken support to. Faint hope, but still there.

[calalily]

Hmmm, not really digging the fact that the last few pages of this thread have revolved around whether or not coconut should have posted pictures of a house that Thomass posted himself. Especially, since the real issue was coconut's revelation that Thomass was intending to use another person's illness for his own benefit. But, hey, I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Yeah, well that seems to pale in comparison to sharing a picture of house that doesn't bother the owner of the house, that cannot be found just from a picture, and affects his dignity in no way. 

I really don't want to say "Two wrongs don't make a right," but sorry, Solander, it's coming across like you're more in sympathy to TSR than to us. 

I would have to agree.  Neutrality requires actually neutral behaviour. Since your return Solander, I've not seen much more than apologies and protection on the behalf of not just one, but two paysite owners. 

That said, I do find the constant harping on Atwa's obsession with Thomas if very off-putting.  Atwa is clearly mentally ill and making fun of her is about as tasteful as her making fun of whoever it is with a brain tumor.

Atwat actually wants to be on the blog - far more of her behaviour is ignored than is published.  She sent that recent picture out to everyone hoping to get a headline and some sympathy and attention for poor Atwat.  And I don't think there is anything clear about her mental illness at all - I've known plenty of people who are attention whores, and announcing them as mentally ill is a) not our job and b) not our business and c) none of us are qualified to make an e-diagnosis. 

And again, a house is not private data.  If it was, then we'd all have to cover our houses when we went out. 

I don't want to cover my house 

[Darqstar]

I agree that we shouldn't be mocking physical characteristics of Thomas, Atwa, or anyone else, or diagnosing mental illness over the web. This has been bothering me for a long time.  It dilutes and trivializes the important things we're arguing against.

I disagree.  

1: It's fun.  Sorry, I won't lie just to make people feel better, but it's fun.  Anita sends around a picture to show how "scared" she is of us, yet in the picture, she's smirking.  The fact that she felt that dressing up like a gypsy hooker and having someone take a picture would bring instant sympathy to her, is hysterically funny.  And, considering that she had a fine old time bashing me to Sherri one night, because I refused to back down on her at TSR, I don't feel the least bit guilty for making fun of her.  I find it fun.

2: I think it does some good to point out that they are mentally ill.  Especially Atwa.  I have said before, and I'll say it again, my experiences at TSR were mild compared to some, but I still have some bitter memories.  Other people were not so lucky and were treated horribly by her and Thomas.   When you've been abused by someone, it can help to know that they are mentally ill, not you.   I think we offer a service to former members of TSR who felt abused by the system.  We offer a place where we can laugh like crazy over Atwa and Thomas, and point out their flaws.  If you've been kicked around by them, you need a place to go where people will say, "It's not YOU it's THEM."  

3: We're not supposed to be nice.  Yes, we have a cause, and I do think that in some cases, we need to be careful before we start yelling at everyone, but we make it perfectly clear that paysites are the enemy.   We've also made it clear that we're not the most PC group on the net.  If we start playing this game of, "We can't insult anyone based on looks or actions (let's face it, mental illness is shown in your actions, so any time we point out Thomas or Anita doing something that we find bugfuck crazy, that qualifies as pointing out mental illness) then we've just become a steril, PC format.  What next, no fucking swearing in case the kidletts sneak on?  

4: It's fun.  Bears repeating, because it's true.  

[Scurvy Cat]

Yeah, I follow you Darqstar.  Wasn't at TSR but I've been there done that, still getting the therapy bills to cover it.  Interesting to know she's even worse than she comes off on Coconut's Blog.  Of course if it's attention she craves not giving it to her would be a good thing, but OTOH ignoring really damaging behavior could mean more people get hurt.

And, yeah, it's fun.  Sorta pathetic really, but human nature nonetheless.

Excuse the didactic moment.   My day has been a disaster so far and probably won't get any better.  My horoscope says I should concentrate on spiritual matters today.  My horoscope can bugger itself.

[Devilfish]

I don't think Solander's sympathies lie with TSR,  I think he's making a well reasoned case.

Um... No, he's not. With all due respect, but this is an entirely emotional argument on his side. We've been stating facts and providing reasoned arguments based on those facts all along.
Solander's been saying that he just feels that's taking it too far. This isn't backed up by much.

It's his right to feel that way. But it's not a logical, fact-based argument.

[Missbonbon]

I agree that we shouldn't be mocking physical characteristics of Thomas, Atwa, or anyone else, or diagnosing mental illness over the web. This has been bothering me for a long time.  It dilutes and trivializes the important things we're arguing against.

I disagree.  

1: It's fun.  Sorry, I won't lie just to make people feel better, but it's fun.  Anita sends around a picture to show how "scared" she is of us, yet in the picture, she's smirking.  The fact that she felt that dressing up like a gypsy hooker and having someone take a picture would bring instant sympathy to her, is hysterically funny.  And, considering that she had a fine old time bashing me to Sherri one night, because I refused to back down on her at TSR, I don't feel the least bit guilty for making fun of her.  I find it fun.

I am assuming you disagree with the diagnosing mental illness part.

2: I think it does some good to point out that they are mentally ill.  Especially Atwa.  I have said before, and I'll say it again, my experiences at TSR were mild compared to some, but I still have some bitter memories.  Other people were not so lucky and were treated horribly by her and Thomas.   When you've been abused by someone, it can help to know that they are mentally ill, not you.   I think we offer a service to former members of TSR who felt abused by the system.  We offer a place where we can laugh like crazy over Atwa and Thomas, and point out their flaws.  If you've been kicked around by them, you need a place to go where people will say, "It's not YOU it's THEM."  

This is true, but I wonder how many of us are in a position to diagnose someone. It's different to poke fun at someone being stupid, and say "Oh my gosh she's crazy!" But when it turns serious is when I turn my head away and ignore it. I agree that we need to offer a place where people can come and share their TSR woes, and tribulations, maybe even have a good laugh at their stupidity.

3: We're not supposed to be nice.  Yes, we have a cause, and I do think that in some cases, we need to be careful before we start yelling at everyone, but we make it perfectly clear that paysites are the enemy.   We've also made it clear that we're not the most PC group on the net.  If we start playing this game of, "We can't insult anyone based on looks or actions (let's face it, mental illness is shown in your actions, so any time we point out Thomas or Anita doing something that we find bugfuck crazy, that qualifies as pointing out mental illness) then we've just become a steril, PC format.  What next, no fucking swearing in case the kidletts sneak on?  

I'm going to use the famous line "It's just a game." There is a difference between taking a stand, then making it personal. Once we make our vendetta against TSR personal, then we lose our message and cause. Then it will look like we just don't like Atwat and Thomass because we don't find them attractive.

"We can't insult anyone based on looks or actions (let's face it, mental illness is shown in your actions, so any time we point out Thomas or Anita doing something that we find bugfuck crazy, that qualifies as pointing out mental illness) then we've just become a steril, PC format.  What next, no fucking swearing in case the kidletts sneak on?

This part bothers me though. People can help their actions. They cannot help appearances. There is a huge difference in poking at someone for looks versus actions. If we poke at someone for their looks then we are no better than elementary school bullies. Yes mental illnesses can be shown within actions. To say "Look what she did! She's batshit crazy!" Is different than "Look at how ugly she is. I bet her shit looks better than her face." I can deal with the first option. Second option not so much.

Besides wasn't it agreed upon somewhere around here that we will refrain from poking at someone's appearance? If it wasn't, then I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn I read it somewhere.

[Anouk]

I don't think it happens here alot, and if it does, it dies down because people think it's childish. So Missbonbon, most people agree with your view on laughing at someone for their looks. Especially since it's very subjective. 

[kenmtl]

*yawns*

[Missbonbon]

I don't think it happens here alot, and if it does, it dies down because people think it's childish. So Missbonbon, most people agree with your view on laughing at someone for their looks. Especially since it's very subjective. 

It is true that it is subjective. Words mean something to one person and something else to another. I don't think I have seen it here, and I'm guessing during one of those squabbles might be where I read that we don't do that.

[Jonesi]

I would prolly feel too guilty to make fun of someones looks incase they saw it but I must admit it does make me lol when you lot do it.  Plus I have my nice, blinky, glittery image to uphold!

[Eskimo Pie]

 I do not think Atwat has a real diagnosed mental illness because if she did, she would be on medication and much more "normal" than what she is acting now. She reminds me of a high school drama queen kind of crazy. Most people I know with mental illnesses would avoid the Internet drama, and she loves to create it. Unless she is manic, but even people with bipolar crash after a while. So is she crazy, yes,  but not medically . She is just an immature brat acting out,  which is scary when it is a grown woman.


* edit.. it was not so much her looks we laughed at but her gypsy type outfit she was wearing to gain sympathy. A normal picture of her wearing normal clothes would not have received nearly the attention that one did! She could be a beautiful woman , but stick her in some get up like that and it is laughable!

[Darqstar]

I am assuming you disagree with the diagnosing mental illness part.

Not really. See below

This is true, but I wonder how many of us are in a position to diagnose someone. It's different to poke fun at someone being stupid, and say "Oh my gosh she's crazy!" But when it turns serious is when I turn my head away and ignore it. I agree that we need to offer a place where people can come and share their TSR woes, and tribulations, maybe even have a good laugh at their stupidity.

I'm not a doctor.  I might "diagnose" Atwa and/or Thomas, but that's my opinion.  Since when do we all have to be qualified doctors before we can say something about someone?  People play doctor with me all the time.  Since I've been out of work with the leg pain, total strangers have taken it upon themselves to diagnose me, suggest treatment, cluck in sympathy, tell me my doctor is crazy, that they know what's really wrong with me.  Do I say to them, 'I'm sorry, you are not allowed to suggest what is wrong with me, unless you can whip out your medical diploma."  Of course not.  Nor do I say to my doctor, "Sorry, but some guy I met while standing in line to buy aspirin said you were wrong, that what I really have is a torn ligiment, so I guess we'd better stop your treatment and start treating me for a torn ligiment instead.  On a meaner note, my next door neighbor says I'm faking it to get out of work.  So, does this mean that I should say, "You know what?  He says I'm faking it, so I guess I can go back to work!" 

We all can diagnose or speculate until the cows come home.  If Atwa is stupid enough to say, "Oh my god, they're saying I'm bugfuck crazy!  I better start drinking rum, because rum is the cure for bugfuck crazy!" then yeah, she is worse than anything we can diagnose and she needs very serious help.  Diagnosing people is a favorite way to pass time for many folks. But no one takes it seriously, at least in as a far as true treatment goes.   And anyone who does, deserves what they get. 

I'm going to use the famous line "It's just a game." There is a difference between taking a stand, then making it personal. Once we make our vendetta against TSR personal, then we lose our message and cause. Then it will look like we just don't like Atwat and Thomass because we don't find them attractive.

Oh please.  The site is called PAYSITES must be destroyed, not "Thomas and Atwa are ugly fuckers."  If someone really thinks that the only reason why we dislike Thomas and Atwa is because we don't find them beautiful, then they're stupid.  The stupid are not my problem.

This part bothers me though. People can help their actions. They cannot help appearances. There is a huge difference in poking at someone for looks versus actions. If we poke at someone for their looks then we are no better than elementary school bullies. Yes mental illnesses can be shown within actions. To say "Look what she did! She's batshit crazy!" Is different than "Look at how ugly she is. I bet her shit looks better than her face." I can deal with the first option. Second option not so much.

Actually, some people can't help their actions either.  And if Atwa is truly mentally ill (which, I actually believe she is) then well, perhaps we are being mean by making fun of her but you know what? I don't come here to be nice.  None of her actions have been that of a person who is nice, so I don't feel particularly guilty about that. But, if we're going to say, "We cannot insult someone based on looks" then what about the millions of other insults and barbs?  If looks are off limit, then poking fun of Dot for not knowing how to spell different parts on a lamp should be wrong.  So should questioning why she loves making ugly lamps so much.  Maybe she's dyslexic and can't help spelling lamp parts incorrectly.  Better not take that chance.  So, insulting Dot's creations or how she presents them is off limits. 

And Izazu, maybe she really is mentally retarded.  Maybe we shouldn't make jokes about her dumb behavior in the TSR sharing information things Coconut posted. And while we're at it, you know, Thomas might not be able to control his greed, maybe he grew up in a poor family so his greed is really the cry of a desperate child, afraid of going hungry again.  So, maybe we should try to, you know, be understanding of his problem. 

Besides wasn't it agreed upon somewhere around here that we will refrain from poking at someone's appearance? If it wasn't, then I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn I read it somewhere.

Really? Well, if that's the case, then I put forth that insulting someone's intelligence is something I can't live with.  After all, people can't help it if they're born with less intelligence than other people.  I mean, at least Atwa could lose some weight, get her hair cut and put on some make up if she was really worried about her looks.   But nothing will ever make poor Izazau any smarter.  So, if insulting anyone based on looks is out of the question, then why isn't insulting someone based on being stupid off limits too? 

[SoggyFox]

I'm bipolar - and I'd never act like Atwa does.  She's a drama queen, plain and simple.  I think her only mental illness is a refusal to grow up and act her age.

And you know, since I'm guilty of that plenty myself, in different ways, I feel I've got room to talk.