TSR Sharing your infomation!

[SoggyFox]

Errr....I've been legally blind and still managed as an artist.  I had glasses, and nearsightedness isn't really a liability for an artist - not really one at all for a three-d artist, but since we're speaking computer stuff....

And I agree - I don't have it in me to shed many tears for someone who was apparently a big name, not because of any talent, but because of popularity.  In the 7 or 8 years since I first looked for CC for my sims addiction, I've gotten a bit frustrated at a community that in many areas feels like high school.  If that makes me sound heartless, oh well.  Maybe I caught the grumpy earlier today.

Seriously - I know its hard not being able to see clearly, but it seems that a lot of times, things like this are brought up as a pity card and not as a 'Hey, look - I'm half blind, but it doesn't stop me from doing the things I love to do.'

And I apologize for any lack of coherence.

[Darqstar]

Sorry, BlackDwarf. I read your whole post and you do have some valid points. You just seem to have such hatred in you for this woman. I don't understand that- not one bit. Yes, I realize that TSR shouldn't be charging for cc. Yes, I understand that it's against the EULA. But, to deny someone an ounce of compassion because of that? I just don't get it. I'm not saying anyone should cry her a river, mind you.

Hate her?  No, I don't hate her.  Just because I'm not going to sugar coat the type of person she is doesn't mean I hate her.  I said I don't wish her any ill. What should I show compassion for?  Because she can't hack it being a PAID artist at TSR?  Why is that such a godawful thing that I'm supposed to be horrified and shocked about it, and  think she's a poor victim?  Is TSR the only place on the whole wide internet where she can put her stuff up?   Hell, she can still put her stuff up at TSR if she wants, she just won't get PAID for it. 

I'm gonna make this short and sweet and tell you WHY I don't get it- instead of drawing this out into a long debate: I was sexually abused as a child. The abuser developed kidney disease, had a transplant, it was rejected- he died a horrible death. Even though he was a nasty man and I hated him, I felt sorry for him. I was capable of feeling at least an ounce of compassion. Why? Because I'm human and I have a heart. Even though I never forgave that man for what he did to me and I'll never forget it, I could still find it in my heart to feel some compassion for him. If I can do that, surely anyone can feel some for a person who sold pixels for a living. It's just pixels- not someone's health and well-being.

Wait a moment... because I'm not all sorry that poor Raveena will no longer get PAID for playing with pixels, I'm some heartless person?  Yes, I'm glad you can show compassion.  Hurray for you.  However, your implications that I'm a cold hearted bitch because I'm not showing compassion that Raveena will no longer get paid for making pixels is hardly a comparison.   You're comparing someone dying a horrible painful death in the same light as someone who will no longer be illegally paid for a hobby that thousands of other people, people who might have it worse than she does, do for free all the time.   

Something that really bothers me? I've read alot of outraged comments about Thoma$$ not having any compassion for someone who had a brain tumor. Yet, it seems to be perfectly OK for someone/everyone/everybody besides Thoma$$ to not have any compassion for this woman.

Because a brain tumor is a bit more serious than someone who will no longer get paid for playing with pixels.  And I never said that what Thomas did was right.  What I said was that it didn't surprise me.   What shocks me is that you know the man happily shared confident information with everyone in that forum, but you're acting like the REAL crime is not continuing to pay Raveena to continue making poor quality goods that people should have to pay for to own.  Her stuff is still up on TSR, it just happens to be free now.  Raveena hasn't even lost her status techically.  She's a retired artist.  She can submit her stuff elsewhere and still continue to be a retired FA at TSR. 

If anything, Raveena should take this as an opportunity to realize that TSR isn't worth it.  That all the loyalty she showed to TSR means absolutely nothing in the long run.  And why does it really matter?  What has she lost but the pay?  Has Thomas shared her personal information?  Did his "right hand woman" insult her for having vision problems?  No.  All he did was tell her she wasn't going to get paid.  Did he do it in a rude, mean, way?  Yes he did.  But a man who will share personal information and gloat happily about how he got free money by canceling a subscription isn't someone you expect to be tactful and decent about getting rid of someone.   

In the list of priorities of all the wrongs Thoma$$ has done, getting rid of Raveena goes pretty far down the list.  Sharing personal information to me, is worse.  Manipulating Paleoanth into doing his dirty work rates as worse.   Keeping Atwa on after all she's done rates to me as worse.  Hell, he took away my SA status for situations beyond my control, but I didn't sob about it.  I shrugged, thought, "What a prick" and moved on with my life. Raveena should do the same.

If you want to have compassion for Raveena, go for it.  What good it will do you or her, I don't know, unless you want to pay her to make Sims2 stuff, or get her a job doing something else.  I prefer to save my compassion for things that I can actually help.  I have compassion for homeless animals so I volunteer at the cat shelter.  I have compassion for sick friends and relatives, so I spend time with them and try to do things for them that they can't do.  I have compassion for the elderly, so I sometimes do volunteer runs for Meals on Wheels, when one of their regular drivers is out.  But compassion for someone who will no longer get paid for something that is illegal to be paid for in the first place?  Nope, I don't have any of that. 

If that makes me heartless and cruel, then so be it.  But in the long run, Raveena is better off outside of TSR.  The TSR grapevine was always of the opinion that 99% of the reason why she was such a bitch was because she was always afraid of someone bettering her.  That's no way to live either.  Maybe now that she no longer has to deal with Thoma$$ the asshole, she'll be able to relax and create things for the sheer joy of it. 

And, if the money is all that important, she can always open her own site and ask for donations. If enough people also feel as compassionately as you do about her situation, she could end up making more money that she did at TSR.   

EDIT: I changed "My FA status" to "My SA status,"   because I was never an FA. My bad.

[neriana]

I don't give a flying fuck about this Raveena person one way or another. What I do know is that Thomas gets to have it both ways: he's running a wonderful friendly "family" site where everyone's supposed to love each other, and therefore if someone "transgresses" they can be kicked out in an emotional way, AND he's running a business. The "family" lovey-dovey garbage is used to avoid professional responsibility.

FA's are his employees, he's not treating them the way I'm sure employees have to be treated by Swedish law. Harassment, summary firing, totally unprofessional behavior all around -- will SOMEONE please sue this bastard already?!

[Paden]

I know of another "family business" but they aren't talked about so much, if you get my drift...

[mustluvcatz]

I have absolutely no compassion for her whatsoever.  I save my compassion for people who deserve it, not for someone who was getting illegally paid for something.  Yeah, little pixels isn't the same as selling drugs, but still, an illegal source of income is still an illegal source of income

The above is the main reason I used the example that I did. My example was like comparing apples to oranges- same as the above quote from BlackDwarf. There's no comparison. They're not the same. This quote is also the reason I just don't get the (whatever it is- ok, so maybe hate is way too strong of a word) that I get when reading some of what's posted about this. Nobody at TSR is forcing anyone to pay for their crap. Nobody who buys it is putting them or anyone around them in harms way. Nobody who buys it is at any kind of risk- other than paying for crap. Which is a hell of alot different than paying for crack. And, YES, I understand that what TSR does is illegal. But to compare it to selling drugs? And to be so vehement about it? I don't get that and to keep debating it with me is going to get nowhere. I hate TSR and all it stands for. However- I DON'T hate all the artists. After reading all the coconut posts, there are those who I don't have an ounce of respect for, but I don't hate them. And I WOULD have compassion for any of them who have a true problem- not the "OMG, my computer is broked!" kind of problem, but a true problem that can affect the quality of their life. Losing your sight does affect the quality of your life. How can it not? (I've been "slowly going blind" for 20 years- I still have my sight 5 years after the doc said it would be gone. And I had an uncle who lost his sight.) The fact that they participate in the illegal selling of pixels would not, and does not, affect my feelings about that.

What should I show compassion for?

Definintely not the fact that she's not at TSR anymore- for whatever reason. Definitely not the fact that she can't create low-quality cc anymore. I surely never said you should. I just can't help but feel that if you were in her shoes, you'd expect someone to have at least a bit of compassion for you. (That goes for anyone, actually.)

I'm trying to figure something out here. Where did I say that anyone should have compassion towards her because she can't sell her pixels anymore? And where have I acted like I think that the "real crime" is that she's no longer going to get paid? Good grief- I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again- Paysites Must Be Destroyed! I AM against them and what they stand for. I could give a shit that she won't be making money off it anymore. Need me to say it again? I will- in another way- my sig other wants me to sell the lots I make- I refuse to do that. Get it yet? What I said has nothing to do with her not getting paid anymore. It has to do with the fact that someone refuses to have any compassion for her because of the fact that she was at TSR.

Before I forget- the only reason that I brought up the person with the brain tumor is to point out that people can show compassion for someone who is with (or was at) TSR. I'm not trying to say that losing your sight is as bad as that. Just trying to point out that the people at TSR are human, after all...and they do have real-life problems that can affect their lives.

BlackDwarf- I've seen this before with you. You get very emotional when you feel strongly about something. You seem to read more into something that what's really there. You think I implied that you're a cold-hearted bitch? Fine. Read it that way. But, I tend to think you misread. I never said that you should feel sorry for Raveena because she's not going to get paid for her pixels anymore. Her not getting paid has nothing to do with it. ("hurray for you"- nice, sarcasm...i likes sarcasm.)

[calalily]

Which again brings me to wonder, why are we supposed to feel sorry because a blind woman can't hack it as an artist? 

Pure win.    We shouldn't feel sorry for anyone who can't make sims content - if you've got problems the least of your concern should be how that impacts sim creation ability.

Something that really bothers me? I've read alot of outraged comments about Thoma$$ not having any compassion for someone who had a brain tumor. Yet, it seems to be perfectly OK for someone/everyone/everybody besides Thoma$$ to not have any compassion for this woman.

That might have been a problem if our first reaction was "haha Raveena is blind YAY!" - but we didn't.  There was compassion for her sick cat, but apart from her TSR monies, Raveena has lost nothing from this little fiasco.  Thomass used the brain tumour as a weapon - he didn't use her blindness as a weapon against her - she brought it up.  I have no doubt that she was doing that for sympathy, and it seems to be working - although here instead of with Thomass. 

Personally, I don't hate or like her - I barely know who she is, and have been sitting here reading about her.  But I'm determined not to reduce her to just a disability - whether that's for compassionate reasons or nasty reasons.  It isn't and shouldn't be all about the blindness.

[Missbonbon]

It isn't and shouldn't be all about the blindness.

So it should be all about the benjamins?    Sorry, I had to.

[mustluvcatz]

I had to think about this for a minute. After all, I think that BlackDwarf has a tendency to read more into something than is actually there. Well, I do that, too. Thanks to calalily for making me realise that.
I know that nobody here said "haha Raveena is blind...yay". It doesn't even have to be about Raveena. This could be about anyone: I just get the feeling that there are people who won't have compassion for anyone that works for TSR. Just TSR- well, maybe Peggy, too. TSR is THE site that just about everyone who isn't majorly involved there hates. Maybe I took some of what I was reading to mean that people wouldn't feel sorry for her because she was an artist there. Maybe. I'm not 100% convinced of that myself. Why? Because I know that there are those who are bitter because of the way that they were treated by Thoma$$- and I know that bitterness can color your attitude towards a person, place or thing. One thing that I will freely admit: I tend to feel more sympathy towards others. I've been through some pretty shitty experiences in my life- been there, done that, had that happen when it comes to alot of things. Some of it was because of my own stupidy, some because of others. But, I've never used any of it to get any sympathy. I've always been able to own up to what I've done. They say that what goes around comes around. That's true. But, there's also a saying that has to do with "to err is human....." that I think has to do with being able to forgive being divine. It would help if I could remember it correctly I guess- but I know what I'm thinking of and it's a true saying, too. Guess I figure if people can forgive me for the stuff I did in the past, then I can forgive someone for something they've done.

[calalily]

So it should be all about the benjamins?    Sorry, I had to.

I had to google this reference.  Never heard of that movie. 

I had to think about this for a minute. After all, I think that BlackDwarf has a tendency to read more into something than is actually there.

Well, I've never been an SA at TSR, so I would presume that BlackDwarf knows more than me. I don't see that as reading more in, just knows more background. I have no context for what it's like to be involved in TSR, so I rely on former people like BlackDwarf and Paleo to give perspective and backstory.

I know that nobody here said "haha Raveena is blind...yay". It doesn't even have to be about Raveena. This could be about anyone: I just get the feeling that there are people who won't have compassion for anyone that works for TSR.

Maybe that's true, although I've found that if someone comes over here with actual victimisation, they are met with outrage on their behalf and comfort and compassion - not hahahaha.  As for how we see them working for TSR, we resolutely keep out of their personal lives unless they bring it into the sims community (I'm thinking atwat here bringing her personal life with Thomass delusions into the community).  But in this case Raveena wasn't victimised due to her blindness - she used it as a justification as to why she didn't mesh.  It's a side issue here.  She throws it out, not Thomass, and he denies that it is anything to do with anything other than her ability to produce on time. 

One thing that I will freely admit: I tend to feel more sympathy towards others. 

I can feel sympathy too - but here it had not a thing to do with her blindness, and more to do with the fact that she wasn't producing. That's why TSR is a business, and paysites should not be included in the phrase "sims 2 community" - there's no pulling together what so ever - the fiscal counts over the community. 

But I don't want to just reduce her to a thing to feel sorry for, or idealise her just because she has something going wrong.  I wouldn't do the same to everyone else - I would see them as more than the disability and the complex person they are.  In other words, Raveena can be blind *and* the biggest bitch on the Earth - they are not mutually exclusive.  To not mention her bitchiness around TSR because she has vision impairment is to reduce her to just her disability.

[neriana]

I know of another "family business" but they aren't talked about so much, if you get my drift...

Hm, Thomas does have kind of a mafioso attitude, doesn't he? He exposes people who betrayed him so others will take care of the problem, he cuts people off from him in nasty ways, he pretends to care about everyone who works for him while secretly he's just using them and they all know it, so they're all scared of each other... and he has a moll. I've never heard of a crazed middle-aged Swedish gangster moll before, but mafia bosses aren't particularly known for their good taste. The most important thing in a gangster's mistress is her absolute loyalty anyway.

[mustluvcatz]

One last thing from me on this, then no more:
Somewhere along the way, the reason I thought the "she can just get a job" statement was harsh got lost. Sometimes it's just not that easy. I know many, many people who've recently lost their jobs and I know many people who can't find a job. That's mainly because of the economy. Hell, our local McD's isn't hiring- and they're always hiring. Add in a disability- and that makes it harder, regardless of all the tax breaks and such that employers are eligible for. From what I've seen lately, an employer is going to go for an able-bodied person who can perform their job at the optimum level and speed so the job can get done faster- meaning less working hours needed and less chance of having to pay overtime to anyone. It's not fair, but that's how it seems to be....of course, I don't know about other areas of the world, just the one I live in. Since I don't know anything about Raveena's personal life, aside from the vision problem, I- nor most likely anyone else here- don't know if there are other things going on in her life to prevent her from going out and getting a regular job.

Oh, calalily, I never meant to imply that you or anyone else isn't capable of feeling sympathy. Some people just tend to be more likely to be over-sympathetic....I tend to be that way. I worked with mentally and physically disabled people so I know how hard getting and keeping a job can be for someone with a disability.

[calalily]

Somewhere along the way, the reason I thought the "she can just get a job" statement was harsh got lost. Sometimes it's just not that easy.

It may not be, but it's better than doing something dishonest. BlackDwarf may have picked an extreme example (ie. crack sales) but the point still stands - it's illegal no matter what, and selling sims content is not legally sanctioned, without regard to your current health status. If she has enough vision to do sims content - a small part time job, she can sell Avon or something else similar - stuff you're allowed to sell. There really is no need to do something that is wrong just because you have what seems to be an excuse.  I think there's a big difference between sympathy for a disability and making the rules not apply. 

Oh, calalily, I never meant to imply that you or anyone else isn't capable of feeling sympathy. Some people just tend to be more likely to be over-sympathetic....I tend to be that way. I worked with mentally and physically disabled people so I know how hard getting and keeping a job can be for someone with a disability.

I didn't think you did Just pointing out that there is a distinction in how my sympathy is applied.  If someone else lost the money from dishonest work, I would not feel bad for them - and to feel bad for someone with a disability *merely because of the disability* infantilises them.  As other esteemed pirates point out, they have disabilities of the same type - should they be allowed to break the rules because they are "lesser and thus not responsible", or should we see them as proper people capable of doing shitty things, and accord them status alongside everyone else?

While it may not be easy to get a job in the current economic climate, and doubly hard for those who have disabilities, I don't think we should make exceptions for disabled people to do dodgy things merely based on their condition.  It discounts those disabled persons who have the moral fortitude to actually persist despite adversity and fail to do the easy thing, but rather, the right thing.

[SnarkyShark]

Yes, whether they are visually challenged (Blackgarden - no eyeballs?) or just stupid, stupid, stupid (izazu and her one firing brain neuron), FAs should be held to the same moral standards as everyone else.

[calalily]

Yes, whether they are visually challenged (Blackgarden - no eyeballs?) or just stupid, stupid, stupid (izazu and her one firing brain neuron), FAs should be held to the same moral standards as everyone else.

Have. my. babies. 

[SnarkyShark]

Only if we can name her Baby Snarkalily. Or better yet, missangelica Jr. -