Your Ugliest Paysite Creation Find: Round Two.

[redraw]

I spy with my little eye a MSTY canidate.  Unless if those panel aren't sheer as I thought.

And yes, circus music does come to mind.

[Moune]

Wow, ScooterBabe, just as I thought this discussion couldn’t get any dumber you just took it to a whole new low.

[snip] Whether she is or not, I cannot say.

You just did. You even called her a “nasty nasty” one. See your own quote below.

As for calling her a pedo-I have seen others called worse on this site.

This is possible. But no matter what anyone else here has said before – about Evi or anyone else – it doesn’t make your statement any less wrong or any less out-of-line.

So, unless she is willing to go after the multitudes of those who have either alluded or called her that in the past, she will have her work cut out for her. Considering that her online work could be taken into consideration by the courts as evidence, she might have a tough battle to win.

What?! Do you seriously think that any judge would take a few bare pixel-midriffs as proof of pedophilia? You have got to be kidding. Sure, if there were well-founded suspicions of actual physical child molesting or distribution of child pornography something like Sims creations might be brought in as peripheral substantiating evidence. But why would you. Evi’s outfits aren’t even within the vicinity of the proximity of being close to pornographic. They are proof of absolutely nothing.

You made a mistake with that statement. Own up to it, learn from it and stop making a fool of yourself and this site.

And Moune, after being in prison with proven female pedos and obeserving how they think and react to kids, I'd say I'm much more qualified than you to comment that the woman in question shows the same signs and obsessions that those women did.

You might notice that I’m not the one making comments or observations about Evi’s sexual preferences. I’m simply telling you that you don’t have the right to call her a pedophile – no matter how many pedophiles you’ve married or been in prison with.

Tell me how speculating in public on someone's habits is illegal.

Very simple, Paden. Because the law says so. (Emphasis added by me).

It falls under free speech.

It is a common misperception that free speech makes it fine to say anything you want. It doesn’t. Free speech comes with responsibilities and obligations – as does every right we have. Among others it comes with the obligation not to ruin other people’s lives with vicious slander and libel.

I refuse to be a goddamn Care Bear. I refuse to tread on eggshells because it might cause someone butthurt that I ...

Oh come off it. You’re not being asked to be a care bear or to tread on eggshells or whatever. You’re being asked to behave morally and legally correct – like every other person in this world – so stop whining about it.

Here's how you can avoid arguing about Evi and any tendencies she may or may not have...say "In my opinion..." before you mention pedophile. Why? Because here in the US, I could walk up to a cop and say "In my opinion, you're an asshole" and not get into a speck of trouble about it. Why? Because I'd be stating my opinion. Which in the US is not punishable by law in any way. 

Nonsense. You can’t get away with libel just by saying it’s your opinion. There are a several examples – even in my small country – of people voicing racist, sexist or other defamatory opinions in public and being both prosecuted and convicted for it. Libel is serious stuff. You don’t get away with ruining another person’s life that easily. In my part of the world you can actually go to jail for it.

Tjstreak, I think you missed some very important points about MTS and TSR. Others have already pointed them out very thoroughly, though, so I hope those misunderstanding have been cleared up. And don’t make it discourage you. The more people around here with a legal understanding, the better.

Dstar, just for the record: I don’t buy the EULA argument as the prime case against paysites. I never have. I don’t think the EULA holds up against legislation on copyright and intellectual property. However, all the other things you mentioned + a few more are plenty of reason for me why paysites are bad. I have a whole page about this on my site, actually.

[lorikay]

Being a survivor of incest as a young child, I have to agree with Moune on this.  It's very important that you don't just randomly accuse someone of pedophilia.  You must have facts.  It's a serious crime.  And when you randomly just throw out an accusation of this magnitude you could be harming children that need to be believed and not dismissed because they're children.  The more people that are accused because of perception, the worse it becomes for children to be believed.

On a lighter note, evi sucks as a creator of anything sims.

[dusdeedawn]

I see what you mean, and I understand its logic, lorikay. But. I'd rather live in a society where people are ready to randomly accuse and believe this of other people than one where no one is willing to accuse people of these things for 'posterity' or out of fear or shame or what-have-you. I understand that that is very black-and-white of me, and that the world, on the whole, is made up of many shades of grey and that, ideally, it would be nice to have a society where neither of these things are the norm; something like a happy medium. But I'm just thinking in terms of 50 or so years ago and how awful it was for survivors because no one believed them, or, if they did, didn't care or want to talk about it. I'd rather people be overzealous in their guard than not at all.

[Paden]

Moune, this is something that you aren't going to win so it's best if you back off. People with more experience than you have stated what they believe and you aren't going to win any friends and supporters by trying to put a muzzle on them. Now, bring on the fug. Also, picking apart someone's post and twisting it to suit what you want their words to mean by taking them out of the context of their whole post smacks of a prosecutor's trick and you ain't that. I compare the person's seeming obsession with children, even pixel children, to what I have observed and find it creepily similar to what I've seen from the actual real deal. Don't like it, then drop it. Also, for further reference, I don't whine. I state things clearly and firmly. Unlike some others that try to tell us what we can say or how to behave.

[mustluvcatz]

Another important aspect of defamation is the difference between fact and opinion. Statements made as "facts" are frequently actionable defamation. Statements of opinion or pure opinion are not actionable. In order to win damages in a libel case, the plaintiff must first show that the statements were "statements of fact or mixed statements of opinion and fact" and second that these statements were false. Conversely, a typical defense to defamation is that the statements are opinion. One of the major tests to distinguish whether a statement is fact or opinion is whether the statement can be proved true or false in a court of law. If the statement can be proved true or false, then, on that basis, the case will be heard by a jury to determine whether it is true or false. If the statement cannot be proved true or false, the court may dismiss the libel case without it ever going to a jury to find facts in the case.

Statements of opinion or pure opinion are not actionable: This backs up what I previously said.

Libel involves the written word and this includes stuff on the internet. Yes, a person CAN take offense and take someone to court- even if the person who wrote the offending material states that it's their opinion. So, YES, stating a libelous opinion is punishable by law. HOWEVER, in court, the statement has to be proven to be TRUE to be punishable.

So...unless Evi really is a pedophile and is willing to take everyone to court for sayiing that she is or that they think she is...

I'll let the rest of that sentence hang as I'm sure everyone here can figure it out for themselves. Let me state for the record that I've never said that I think Evi is a pedophile or that she IS one. However, I AM of the opinion that something is not right there. Before anyone gets their panties in a twist about that: it could be anything. She DOES seem fixtated on children- that could be because she truly loves children (in a non-gross way) or it could be because she lost a child. I don't know and it's none of my business. I don't like her creations, therefore I stay away from them. I don't go searching for them.

[Paden]

Besides, it's not like we said her real name in connection with what we think of what could well be only an internet persona. That is WHY people use screen names in the first place, is it not? Yes, in my opinion and experience, her web persona comes off as creepily fixated on kids for one reason or another. Don't like my opinion? Fine and dandy. Don't read what I post but don't for one second try to tell me what I can and cannot express on a forum that you do not run but are like myself, a mere member of.

[Scurvy Cat]

Nicely put, Scurvy Cat.

Who at MTS stole a mesh? Just curious as I don't remember reading anything about that (might've been before my time here or on Sims 2 sites).

To be honest I don't remember.  I know that meshes or textures have occasionally been put up and come down quickly when it was pointed out that they were stolen from somewhere else.  Details escape me since I don't hang out on the boards over there.

[Paden]

I know that people from over there at MTS have been stolen from by people on TSR, witness SHAKESHAFT the thieving bitch who was never punished. I wasn't aware that anyone from MTS had crossed the line since it has never been brought up in discussion here as far as I know of.

[qwebnm]

I know that people from over there at MTS have been stolen from by people on TSR, witness SHAKESHAFT the thieving bitch who was never punished. I wasn't aware that anyone from MTS had crossed the line since it has never been brought up in discussion here as far as I know of.

How you define punishment in TS community? It's all up to the admins, and there is nothing you can do about it than saying: "CATCH 'EM!".

[Paden]

Well, she is a paid artist on TSR, so they could at least have docked her a couple month's worth of pay. Just an idea, but the better thing to have done would have been to fire her stealing self and gotten her off of their hands. Then again, their reputation is so rotten with decent sites what is one more thing to be disgusted by, eh?

[dstar]

Or demoted to SA since they don't get paid- after all you shouldn't get paid at all to steal other people's stuff- and she certainly should not have been made anything at all for Sims 3. Most free sites actually using a mesh without creator permission or posting with the content against the original creators TOU will get the item removed and outright stealing a mesh and claiming it as your own will get you ban hammered from the site permanently.

[ScooterBabe]

Mourne, just drop it and go on. I'm not going into "she said/she said" with you. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read my posts, m'kay?

Yes, it would be nice for some form of punishment to be handed out concerning the Shakeshaft incident. Snow will probably fall in Hell before that happens.
Wow, sounds as if creators for Sims 3 better cross their 't's and dot their 'i's. Maybe that's a good thing.

[Moune]

Oh no, Paden – and ScooterBabe – this is not going to go away that easily. If you want to keep hurling preposterous claims and false statements at me and every other hapless reader of this forum then I’ll keep lopping them straight back at you.

People with more experience than you have stated what they believe ...

Would you care to point out who these people are – except for yourself, of course, and your marriage to a pedophile – was he convicted, by the way – and stay in prison with pedophiles. I’m guessing you’re not referring to the remarks about signature banner angles and the ‘horror of Evie’s clothes’.

... you aren't going to win any friends and supporters by trying to put a muzzle on them.

I’m not trying to win any friends or supporters. I’m trying to save what little credibility and respect this place has left. Those pedophile claims would have been put down cold immediately if people like Hecubus, Calalily, SparklePlenty and a number of other people were still around. Unfortunately they aren’t and PMBD is seriously degenerating – not least because of these stupid accusations of pedophilia or theft or what have you. This is not just about you, Paden, or you, ScooterBabe. This is about PMBD in general.

In a way I do hope, though, that I have won some friends. Because I seriously hope that I’m not the only one outraged by this whole pedophilia debacle – just the only one who wants to stand up and face the full fury of Paden and her minions. If I really am the only one, then this place is not just on its way down the drain, it has already been washed out of the sewer system.

I compare the person's seeming obsession with children, even pixel children, to what I have observed and find it creepily similar to what I've seen from the actual real deal. Don't like it, then drop it.

Absolutely not as long as it happens in a forum that I also have a stake in.

Also, for further reference, I don't whine. I state things clearly and firmly. Unlike some others that try to tell us what we can say or how to behave.

Oh yes, you do whine. All the time. Just like you’ll be one of the first to tell us all what we should and should not do.

Mustluvcatz, if I read your post correctly it looks like there is a difference from your side of the Atlantic to my side. For one thing we don’t distinguish between libel and slander but have only one term: ‘Injurier’, defined like this in the encyclopedia:

Insulting words and actions or the spreading of hearsay suitable for lowering the esteem/respect of their fellow citizens for the insulted. (my translation)

If the ‘injurier’/libel turns out to be true, you’re off the hook, and also if you were forced to make them. But it doesn’t matter one bit if you were only stating your opinion. And quite frankly I really have a hard time believing that in the US you can accuse somebody of being a pedophile, a murderer, a rapist – anything – and get away with it simply by adding ‘in my opinion’.

And seriously, it doesn’t matter if Evie or Michael Jackson wishes to take somebody to court, or whether or not it is possible to get a conviction because of the nature of the internet. The crux of the matter is that it is legally AND morally wrong to accuse somebody of pedophilia without substantial proof. Sims outfits are not that. Neither are signature banner angles.

I really, really hope that I’m not the only one here who can see that.

ETA
I just realized that I automatically presumed that Mustluvcatz is from the US. I apologize in advance if that is not the case.

[Paden]

You stupid bitch. He was convicted of raping my CHILD. He won't be getting out for a few more years and then his goddamn ass will be deported and hopefully killed in his own country for what he has done. Flinging shit around about people that have been there, seen that and had to go through serious therapy on their own behalf because of what it did to their own minds and know what they're talking about because they've studied the habits of monsters like these so it doesn't happen again is stupid. Then again, what else can one expect from someone that doesn't understand what goes on. I am a morally responsible person and that person known as evi comes off as a sick individual. If I didn't give a damn about people possibly being contaminated by such a one, I wouldn't say a word. Then again, I can't expect a sheltered little lass such as yourself to have had much, if any, experience with the harsher aspects of life, now can I? Fuck off and die, little snowflake.

ETA: I said it was my opinion, what part of that did your little brain not comprehend? Or are you so soaked into your own country's views upon the matter that you don't admit that people can say they have one?? No one here is my minion, either. They have minds of their own and can make them up freely, as I have done. My opinion on things won't change as long as a rabid little rainbow flinger like yourself keeps yapping at my heels and biting my ankles. As for what Hec would have said, how the hell would you have known, did YOU ever chat with her on MSN?? Or anywhere else? Some of us did and know damn well what she would or would not have said. Bite me. You are not my judge. You are not my jury. You are not someone that matters to me in the least fucking bit.