Your Ugliest Paysite Creation Find: Round Two.

[kenmtl]

Devilfish the issue is not in it's quality it's in it's point of origin. Yes we all know that there is some fine CC on paysites. We also know that there is some absolute shit CC on freesites. Fine. As Paden said very clearly it has nothing to do with quality. Paysites are the target, that's it that's all.

Now I know there's been some talk about this lately, and people for some reason are under the impression that we think all free content is just wonderful. That's just being stupid. We don't bash freesites or free creators regardless of quality. A good majority of the CC I see is crap be it from TSR, MTS2 or GOS. Pointing it out on a paysite is just part of the program and hopefully serves a purpose in educating people.  Pointing it out on a freesite serves no purpose except to people who like to hear themselves talk.

I know some forums have "worst finds" type threads and that's fine, it's their forum they can do what they want. Most of it is absolutely true. However they generally seem to be "worst finds from someone else's site" type threads. So we all our own rules.

[SoggyFox]

Besides, people need to learn - free stuff that's maybe not so good, well, with some encouragement and practice that creator can get better.  We don't want pay creators to get better - we want them to either fail, or go free [then they can have encouragement to get better too]

[scrappysim]

I still believe that you don't encourage quality creators that are pay now to go free by telling them how much their stuff sucks.  I agree that telling them that it sucks that they are pay is fine but telling them that everything they make is crap (especially if they have naive people buying it) doesn't help us convert anyone.  While I understand that destroying paysites  is our ultimate goal I believe that one of the most effective ways to do that is to convert the creators to leave the sites and go free.  That way the sites will have no creations to sell.  There are many ex-TSR creators here and if we could get more to leave then I believe it helps us more than making them all hate us does.

[SoggyFox]

We're not saying it sucks in quality - notice, there are plenty of pay artists who don't show up in this thread at all.  There stuff is still paycrap though, simply because its for sale.

[Paden]

And the more you stroke a pay site creator's ego, the more willing they are to stay with the pay site. In some cases, the quality of work falls off, or doesn't anyone remember certain pay creators that went right into the rubbish bin when it came to making nice stuff? We're not here to stroke the ego of those that work at a pay site. We just aren't. Starve the ego and they may seek somewhere that praise is given freely just for trying. We do that in the free community and try to give advice on how to improve, because the free creators do it for the enjoyment they get out of trying and their love of the game. The pay site creators do it for a paycheck, when it all comes down to it. I know which one I'd rather encourage... And it ain't the fucker waiting to get his thirty pieces of silver, I can tell you that. So yeah, anyone that gets paid from TSR makes pay shit. Sorry if y'all don't like my wording, but I'm a simple peon that has a mind of her own and won't think the way that pay site owners do; that their shit is so glorious that you must fork out to have them in your game and rant and rave about how astounding and amazing their stuff is cause the areas around the gap glitter. Ugh!

[calalily]

Now I know there's been some talk about this lately, and people for some reason are under the impression that we think all free content is just wonderful. That's just being stupid. We don't bash freesites or free creators regardless of quality. A good majority of the CC I see is crap be it from TSR, MTS2 or GOS. Pointing it out on a paysite is just part of the program and hopefully serves a purpose in educating people.  Pointing it out on a freesite serves no purpose except to people who like to hear themselves talk.

I agree with everything else, but this most of all.  The point is not to talk about the bad bits of freesite stuff, and the good bits of paysite stuff. 

I would rather chew off my own arm than advertise paycrap for free.  That's what they do - not what I do - they have to pay me to whore for them.  As for not so nice stuff on freesites - I don't know if anyone has noticed, but they're doing this for free.  I know you all can't pay me according to my education level, and my sims content is not my main occupation, so I don't care if it meets everyone's exacting standards - they can blow me. No one can seriously ask a pay artist to stop taking money and start taking criticism as payment instead - can they? 

I laugh at the idea that I'm not an artist in any respects in the eyes of the sims community, except when it comes to the notion that I must take critique and improve - as an artist.  I don't really care about how good a pinnacle my sims "art" can reach - I'm not an artist, and don't intend to be one when I grow up.  Not to mention it's for fucking Sims 2 - where is that in the Louvre? Where is all the good respected artist benefits from a dying game on a corner of the internet? Nowhere for it to go other than finds sites and showcase threads.  And what do I get if I make mind blowing content?  Nothing I don't already have - maybe a message of thanks occasionally, and content I made for me - but no substantial benefits. 

If I want advice or critique, or help, I'll ask for it - and have.  But the idea that we would persuade people to go free for the good feelings, and then reduce those to negligible by haranguing them - that's self defeating and severely idiotic.  I would have a hard time persuading one single person to give away money without some sort of incentive.  That incentive is either lack of making fun of them, or active encouragement - not same old treatment but without money.  If they didn't care about money, they'd still be free.

Not to mention, why would you bother to make fun of freesiters for it - not free enough for you? Now you must make them pay and feel bad for having made you look at it? That's sheer stupidity - it's as simple as not clicking the download button - really not that hard.  You really don't have to not click the download button, but instead make special time to publically humiliate them.  I did it once - but only once - and I didn't like the bad taste it left in my mouth - I won't be doing it again.

I still believe that you don't encourage quality creators that are pay now to go free by telling them how much their stuff sucks. 

Rarely do those we want to go free actually end up in these threads - if it's actually quality, then it's kinda hard to say something about it.  If it does, it's usually on personal taste, and because we're not a hivemind, we'll never agree on that stuff - but if I do like something, I'll skip over ragging on it.

[neriana]

I don't give a fuck about pay creators' feelings. Hey, they're making money, they're supposed to be professionals, right? I'm not gonna tell Jessica Alba she can act when I have to pay for her stupid movies, but I'm always quite nice about free or low-cost community theater productions in which the actors don't make a dime.

You want money for what you do? Be ready to grow some ovaries and play with the big girls, because if you're no longer an amateur, the gloves are off, and that's all there is to it.

[Eskimo Pie]

Thanks to Calaliy's new set I now want a pina colada!

 Dot, the lamp fornicator, is a good example of a pay creator quality that goes down over time and not up because she is more concerned with pumping out stuff for money. I actually have a few dot lamps in my game that I must have downloaded with lots. They actually are not that bad, but they are from much older sets. Her new stuff is boring and unoriginal. You can tell she has lost all real interest and passion for the hobby of creating. You can see that in a few other FA's at the tsr. One creator does not even make new sets anymore just recolors of old stuff or other peoples stuff.

[Darqstar]

I've notice that there are certain creators who's work never gets to this thread, because we know it is good. But what good will it do if we all start going, "God, Windkeeper and Cyclone Sue make some excellent stuff!"  We can wish they go free, but if we start praising their work, it sorta defeats this site.

The mission here is supposed to be Paysites Must Be Destroyed.  We all want to see some of these creators go to free from pay.  However, there are some pay creators that I won't download their stuff even if they do go free.  Like Dot, if she goes free tomorrow, good for her.  Her lamp are still stupid.  Being free won't improve them, it'll just mean that we can get that crap for free without having to take it from the booty.  Unless she starts to improve, crap is crap.

And we all know there is plenty of free crap out there.  Some of us can even confess to having made some of it.  *whistles innocently*  But, if we start bashing on free stuff, just to show that we're badass pirates who spare no one, then we're sorta shooting ourselves in the foot.  It's nice to be a badass, but I also thought we wanted to send a message that freesites are the way it should be.  It's hard to convince people that you're right when you're busy insulting them.  "YOU SUCK BUT AT LEAST YOU'RE FREE!"  wouldn't give me a warm feeling that being free is a good thing. 

If the site was called, "Custom Stuff Sucks" and the point was to rag on all custom content, that would be different, but it's not.   I don't see any need to start insulting free stuff. 

I also believe that some paid creators (especially at TSR) would improve if they went free.   I think a lot of them are sacrificing quality for the sake of filling quotas and making money.  I've seen creators stuff start to decline in quality once they were made FA's.   And, not to defend TSR FA's but sometimes you can't figure out what the typical subscriber to TSR wants.  I spent days making an office/study that only did fair in downloads.   Pissed, I throw together a pinky-pink living room and that went over much better.  So, I think what happens at TSR is that since you can't really figure out what will go big and what won't, it gets too easy to just throw together stuff and figure if you throw enough shit at the wall, some of it is bound to stick. 

[Skoria_Bay]

There is a difference between doing something for fun and something to get a paycheck. I've seen people do some amazing work and while I may not download it, still doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.

I went looking a while ago to put some Sears Catalogue homes in my game. I've found some fabulous ones on MTS2 and then I looked on TSR. Most of the ones on TSR are really horrible compared to the one creator in MTS2. This was when I still had a subscription at TSR and so I downloaded the few I liked. They are really nice in game, but the others I am so glad I didn't download. teril02 does other homes too and they look really nice.

Calalily's stuff looks fun and I'm glad she does have time to make things. And I thank you for them.

I agree with Darqstar, I've seen some really good creators suddenly start throwing together crap because they want to make quota. And then I've seen some free creators take an amazing amount of time and put together some really fun stuff. No, I am not that talented to make meshes or recolor. But I thank those that do take their time (Their time mind you) to make something for the community.

But people like Dot and Evi probably won't ever improve (even if they went free) as they think their stuff is perfect and pretty and oh, so lovely.

Edit: Looked up the creator's name

[Immortelle]

I was stunned when ShojoAngel left MTS2 to go to TSR.  She was actually good.

[SoggyFox]

Several really good creators left MTS2 for TSR - About the time I was made a featured creator, there was a problem with sniping.  Apparently CAS screens aren't something TSr wanted

[Devilfish]

Devilfish the issue is not in it's quality it's in it's point of origin. Yes we all know that there is some fine CC on paysites. We also know that there is some absolute shit CC on freesites. Fine. As Paden said very clearly it has nothing to do with quality. Paysites are the target, that's it that's all.

Of course, and I understand that, what Paden meant and what you said here. I hope you know I do. I just meant to point out that it wouldn't harm our cause to go on record as saying that yes, some pay creators are quite good at what they do. Be the bigger man. No statements about freesites are nessecary either. Paysites could fart rainbows and glitter or murder my grandma with a meat tenderiser and that still wouldn't change the fact that, quite simply, the cc being offered can't help that. And it's not fooling anybody.

The mission here is supposed to be Paysites Must Be Destroyed. 

Well we all agree on that, I hope. That's why I'm here. The question is, why do we want it? I think the reasons for wanting to destroy paysites are very different for different people. You may want to defend EAs rights for some reason, or just have a hate-on for a certain site, or fight the good fight on behalf of the freesites, or be peeved that you can't have certain stuff, be too financially challenged for subscriptions, have moral problems with the whole paysite deal, be excited about sticking it to the man... The reasons are endless. And apparently people seem to believe that "because everything paysite owners make is automatically bad quality" fits in that list. That is simply not fact and if there's one group of people who should have kittens over misinformation and propaganda, it should be you guys, goddammit. Us. Whatever. If I were a paysite owner ad took the time to read this forum, I'd be too fucking terrified to even consider going free. I've heard it mentioned that some peysite creators feel like they're being bullied into ging free. I can certainly see why. And it doesn't even work.

This war used to be a guerilla. A revolution. It was a changing and evolving thing and on some levels it still is, but from where I'm standing we've begun digging trenches on both sides. And trench wars, with their catchy slogans and easy to digest generalisations, are not known for their great speed nor their success rates.

If the site was called, "Custom Stuff Sucks" and the point was to rag on all custom content, that would be different, but it's not.   I don't see any need to start insulting free stuff. 

I never advocated anything like it either. The Nouk thing on simwank or whatever it's called made me think about this whole "don't mention the war" thing we've got going on here. Sometimes it just feels like people are shuffling around some embarrasing truths about this community and the cc it offers.

And anyway, I can't say I've got perfectly clear well-defined opinions on the matters. Just airing some concerns I have.

[kenmtl]

You know what, this is a good conversation to have. Because there seems to an incredible misconception about us and free creators. The not bashing is not innately connected to thinking it's all good. It's just not appropriate for this forum and the message we're trying to send out. It's really not more complicated than that.

People here do there best to encourage and support free creators. There is nothing in this forum that would scare a pay creator from going free. Why would they be scared? We don't bash free creators. Ever. They are no longer our concern.  In fact it's usually accompanied with mass glomping. So I'm sorry but I don't get that argument at all. In all honestly I see far worse and more insulting things said about free creators in others forums than I see about pay creators here.

Darqstar nailed it. There's lots of stuff that never ends up in this thread. Why, because it's not bad. However at the same time promoting it is kinda counter productive. So we just ignore it. It's just politics. Ya we like to run around waving swords and whatnot, but I mean that's just the same kind of fun that everybody does in their own way on their own forums. We're no different. We just have more specific targets. Lets face it, most of the ones who get it have usually asked for it.

There's many paysite creators who we never talk about. Why? They're just quietly doing their thing. Do we want and encourage them to go free, yes. Do we harass them, no. The ones that keep popping up are the ones that are actively engaged in the fight. When was the last you saw someone run over to ATS and punch Sandy in the tata?


I get were you're coming from, and I think it good to re-access our motivations sometimes. It can get carried away in an open forum when membership is always changing. However I think for the most part we do a pretty good job of keeping things under control. If someone hotlinks to a free site or slams a free creator, they get a slapped pretty quickly. I really don't get what some people want or expect sometimes. We do the best we can but some shit is just officially not our problem.

[Eskimo Pie]

 I wonder how many free creators stopped creating because people slammed their stuff in an open forum like this? It would be discouraging if you shared your creations for free only to have them spit on. It may not bother some people but it would others. I may giggle at some of the crap over at MTS2 or wherever, but I give them kudos for trying. Maybe with a little practice they maybe the next  Adele .