Random rant that was on the Booty shopping list

[Anouk]

If the owner needs donations to stay afloat, they can get them pretty easily. As you've said they have plenty of fans who would help them out, so there's no reason to sell copyrighted content (both Eidos and EA for poop's sake  ) .
Now they are threatening their own fans to close down if they share the content they are selling illegally, using guilt trips and holding their content over your heads. Are you seriously trying to defend this disgusting behaviour?

As you've seen, the answer is YES, if the content is offered to this site, it will be posted. It's competely legal and ethical to share Sims 2 content freely with everyone, and PMBD is doing just that.

If the creator decides to take all items offline, it's their choice and responsibility. If they do not want to stay around because people post stuff for free, that they are selling illegally, then it's their choice.

[MinervaMac]

What Nouk said.  Let's look at the facts there, these people are threatening to close down their site if their work continues to be distributed in the booty.  I don't know about anyone else but to me that is one big red flashing neon sign with 'WE JUST CARE ABOUT THE MONEY' written on it.  Well if that's their attitude then to hell with them.

[alia]

Wait, I'm confused. What site is this?

But if someone shares this site's items, we won't get a second chance, because this is our second chance. So I have to ask you this. Who is the real person being greedy and selfish here? If one person doesn't want to pay for an item, they ruin it for everyone.

Is this all about the creator egotripping (i.e. "grovel and you might get the goodies") or is it about money (i.e. "I have chillun to feed!")?
This clearly isn't about keeping the site free, as GC and many others pointed out, donation sets are not necessary for that, especially if you have an ardent following, like the site seems to have... (I still have no idea of what site we're talking about. )
Anyways, to me this smells like the good old drama-llama attitude; "Grovel, worship me and my creations and do as I say or I will take my toys and go home!" In other words, it's 12ness. 

Pirate Panda, I get it that you don't want to lose the site, but do you really want to encourage the creator's drama-llama tendencies? I would not, if I were you.

Also, if they indeed pull the site, what is there to worry about? The donation items will be in the booty and the rest of the stuff will be in the graveyard.

[Zazazu]

So I have to ask you this. Who is the real person being greedy and selfish here?

Easy answer: the paysite owner. The site owner has no rights to charge for their product. Further, they are legally barred from doing so according to both EA's EULA and Square Enix's EULA. You cannot charge money for someone else's copyright. Period. End-o-story.

[Jojoba]

Hey, guys. Please hear me out. Seriously, I don't think it's a good idea to submit content from Silver Wind. If the site owner sees their content posted on the Booty, they WILL close down their site and take all downloads away. Trust me, that's not good at all. That means no one can download any more new FF7 content from them, ever. 

We host pay content in the booty as its not freely shared and accessible. Currently no one can download that FF7 content as it is locked from them, unless they pay to. Maybe the site owner should think about that mm? And if you did properly read the small discussion in the Booty Shopping List thread between myself and L Lawliet, you will see that it includes myself advising them to contact the site owner about going free, and them saying they will do so and sharing their items in the booty is the last thing to do.

Obviously, this person isn't in it for the money, or they wouldn't threaten to close their site.

How much of the content on that site is free and how much can only be download (and also only viewed...) unless you have paid?

..However their intentions and purposes don't really come into the equation...if you have pay items then they will go into the booty. If you don't want that to happen, then there is only one thing that will change, and that is that the site owner makes the content free.

If you do not want the items to go in the booty then it is very simple - talk to the site owner about going free. That is what L Lawliet is doing currently. We always prefer to see sites go free then close, and thats what would hope to happen with this site in question

[Paden]

Pirate Panda, you are an enabler. It's people like you that allow and encourage pay sites to flourish with your sloppy and sycophantic devotion to a person that makes content for money and only money. I don't believe that this person is the only one able to make content that mirrors Final Fantasy 7, not at all. There are many talented free creators that could do just as well, if not better, but the thing is that they may not have the interest. Besides, have you considered that maybe Square Enix may not want their designs and likenesses put into a game not even put out by their own company, but into the game of a competitor?

Sure, I understand that you love the game and the characters, being married to a player of all the Final Fantasy games from when they came out here in the States on the Nintendo game systems. Thing is, you have got to draw the damn line somewhere. The person may may some wonderful recreations of the Square Enix characters, but she's making a profit off of not only one, but two, different companies. She's not entitled to do that, she's in clear violation of copyright. Or didn't you think about that?

Some companies don't mind if you create reproductions of their likenesses, as long as you aren't selling them. Have you ever considered that she could get her ass into a huge amount of trouble for the fact that she's selling these things when she doesn't have written permission to do so? She is taking someone else's property and selling it, kinda like fencing stolen items. And yes, it is steealing because, as I said, she's making money off of something that she has no legal rights to sell. If she was to show that yes, indeed, she had written and legally binding consent from both EA Games and Square Enix, then there'd be no trouble about it. She doesn't though, so there is.

You may not like it, but we're not gonna make exceptions for anyone. If she just wants to create and have enough cash to keep her site going, she would do well to go free and ask for donations. Or you could pony up the dough yourself, as has been suggested before. We're not going to let her slide because of her talent or whatnot, because we are not hypocrites. If you're so damn afraid you're not going to get the kind of content you want so badly in your game, learn to make it yourself so you can quit your damn grizzling! Honestly, does the sun shine out of this person's unmentioned regions that you are so adamant and passionate about us leaving her alone? It ain't happening.

By all means, write to her and ask if she would consider going free because many of the people who sub would probably rather help support a quality free site so that all can get the content rather than lording it over others that they can get stuff that the lowly masses cannot. Unless their real assholes, in which case they need whacked up side the head with an Atwat creation. List the alternatives that she has and tell her that while we don't enjoy sending talented creators running for the hills, we will do so in order to close down a pay site. Pay sites are illegal, immoral, and unethical. They go against the spirit of what the creators of the game were about.

We're not hypocrites here, by the way. No matter how much we may adore a creator's items or regard the person in the highest esteem, if they have pay files, donation files or whatever the hell they want to call them, the damn things are gonna be in the booty. We don't make exceptions. For anyone. There is content in the booty that many of us would prefer not to be there, but guess what? It's from a pay site, so there it sits. You can't ride the fence on this one because the damn thing is made of razor wire and sooner or later, you're gonna get cut in half the most painful way. Make up your mind and stop the waffling. If your pay content is so goddamn precious to you that you encourage her depredations against the community, shut the hell up and get the fuck out. If you finally understand that there can be no exceptions for anyone, no matter how well-loved their stuff is, then welcome and have some rum.

Make up your mind. Sit down and question your own ethics on this issue. The goal of this site is to either shut them down, or liberate them. I myself, would much rather see them liberated, having a soft spot for the Final Fantasy series. But then again, I've found some damn good FF content over at MTS 2. I suggest that you check them out. If you're just a fan of one of their games, though, what fun is that? There are many adventures to be had in the realms of FF and you don't need to seal yourself into only one of them. But don't come here and demand/beg that we not carry out our stated mission. It don't work. And if you are the owner of that damn site, grow up and check out the copyright laws before someone reports you to the original company! I happen to know that Square Enix is much more determined about keeping to themselves the money to be made off of their products, images included.

[redisenchanted]

Hmm, this site caught my eye earlier today, but I didn't bookmark it and Google isn't helping. It looks to me like they are using Dark Lunaris/Lunar Eclipse's work and I didn't notice any credit. I could be wrong, I quickly lost interest when I realized it was a paysite. Anyone have a link handy?

For the OP: it's about principle. If your stuff is pay, it will probably wind up in the booty. End of story, no exceptions, no extra credit points for being nice, talented or a spoiled brat that will take all their toys and go home.    This argument will get you nowhere here. You haven't been trollish or obnoxious, but you obviously don't "get" this site.


ETA: Here's the link http://silverwindclub.web.fc2.com/vincent.htm

Isn't the outfit by Dark Lunaris/Lunar Eclipse?

[Hecubus]

If I may... when I first joined the booty staff last winter, there was a list of paysite owners who were 'friends' and weren't to be pillaged. We found that hypocritical, so when Bluesoup souped, we made the decision that ANY site who offers content for pay would be considered a paysite, and if we got the item donated to us, we'd post it in the booty. This did get us into a bit of a fight with Numenor's item, but we felt we had to draw that line.

This is not to say we don't like some paysite owners - Sandy at Around the Sims is a doll, and I've always gotten along with the Holy Simoly kids. But if you can't get it unless you pay for it, it's a pay item.

[Redikolous]

Can you even see what's offered for donation if you don't pay first?  I don't see how you managed to get to that donation thing via the front page, redisenchanted.

I've been looking at DL's stuff on MTS2, does anyone have a link to her home page?

[rome_raven]

Big error.  Ignore that this is even here 

[Minolia]

I think Rome Raven was thinking of the wrong DL. 

Dark Lunaris goes by Lunar Eclipse at MTS2.

[glasscigarette]

The only site they list for her there is her LJ, http://community.livejournal.com/eclipse_sims2/profile . But I also could have sworn that I'd seen an actual homepage for her at some point, in one of my pilgrimages into the Sims 2 online universe. Am I hallucinating?

[Minolia]

Doh realises Red had already seen the MTS2 stuff. 

Glasscigarette - I think DL has talked about getting a website but still hasn't quite gotten round to it, or at least I've never found it during my online stalking. 

[alia]

ETA: Here's the link http://silverwindclub.web.fc2.com/vincent.htm

If you want to download that sim, you need to follow the link on that page that leads to MTS2.
Clearly the owner is aware that there are other options than just going pay, s/he's just doing it for the monies. Oh, and the way the owner wants to manipulate people into sucking it up and paying is making me very mad. I hate manipulators with a passion. 


Oh, and the free stuff on that site is nice but nothing spectacular, IMO. DL's stuff is much better, and she's not manipulating anyone, she just likes to share. DL rocks. 

[redisenchanted]

OK, so have we concluded that it's not Lunar Eclipse/Dark Lunaris' stuff? I think it threw me off a bit since the styles are so similar. I agree though, DL's stuff is much better.