More Smutty Than You: TSR's Hall of Shame

[Pescado]

I agree - As a little kid, the word pedophilia wasn't even one you'd hear.  Yes, you'd be warned not to talk to strangers, but its was never just thrown around like it is now.  And honestly, I think that is not a healthy thing.

I am pretty sure even in my day, accepting candy from strangers was a bad thing, and that distrust of strangers wasn't just endemic to my fambly. The pedophilia thing has been around for a LONG time.

[SoggyFox]

Yes, Pes - but nowadays it seems -everyone- is accused of being one, whether or not its true, even 18 year old boys with 17 year old girlfriends.  When children can't be children because of outsiders, then something's wrong [Something's wrong if they can't because of family, but...that's a different thing entirely.]

[Tyrza]

We always got the not taking candy from strangers thing and that strangers are secret monsters somehow etc - if only I'd been protected from family I wouldn't be the nutjob I am now.  LOL.  Well, maybe I would have.
My kids are trained in how to protect themselves from that very rare stranger who is dangerous, and they're kept the hell away from my family of origin, but it's useless to use the whole boogeyman of pedophiles hovering everywhere, it does weird things to kids' heads to leave them terrified of the world.
On another site where I journal, I post pics of my kids occasionally, and invariably someone will come out of the woodwork to tell me pedophiles are tracking me right now by that picture and will descend shortly to kidnap, rape and eat my children and I clearly want that to happen.  I wish I were indulging in hyperbole instead of just a mild exaggeration.
And as I keep reminding them, these sekrit internet pedos don't have my children's names or address, their schedule, or anything really identifiable, and frankly some weirdo wanking it to a pic of the kids sitting in their kiddie pool having fun isn't actually harming my kids at all.  (I mean, gross, srsly, but the kids will never know, and hey, I know my family, and the possibility someone's shared a pic of my kids with the fucknard pedos there and one of them wanked it to a pic of my kids is far more likely, really.)
People are far better off teaching their children how to protect themselves and how to love themselves and who to turn to in a bad situation, how to talk to people who are mistreating them, etc (knowing to say "Don't touch me like that" and "I am telling *trusted grownup*") - and best of all, teaching a child he or she has every right not to be touched when they don't feel like it - than frightening them and thinking that'll keep them safe.

But this is a pet peeve of mine.  Parents who say "Strangers are bad people who touch you against your will, now go kiss your Aunt Edna or I will spank you."  That sort of thing. 

[Pescado]

Yes, Pes - but nowadays it seems -everyone- is accused of being one, whether or not its true, even 18 year old boys with 17 year old girlfriends.

There's no 17. That's an 18 with a *12*, which is, obviously, wrong. What's so hard about this to understand? When you become an 18, you lose all your romances with 12s. That's how it works. Someone is clearly engaged in a vile act of Kitten Murder!

[Tyrza]

Kitten murder is bad?  D:  I wish I'd known that pre-dinner.

[Eskimo Pie]

 It seem like it is more common because we actually talk about it now, not just sweep it under the rug.

 Years ago children did not go to their parents and tell them that "uncle Bob" is touching them because Mom and Dad would tell the child to stop making up stories.. or if the family knew it was not discussed because of pride.

Back when I was a kid the local Priest was viewed  to be god himself, never to be questioned and always be respected. If any little boy came forward to say he was being touched by him I can assure you that little boy would be beaten within an inch of his life for accusing a Priest of such things. NOw today, we all know that even Priest are human and have issues...

You see my point I hope.  I do not think it is more common, it is just not hidden any more and kids CAN come forward more without being disowned by the family.

 

[Tyrza]

Also people are become (imho) much more aware of what a child who's been molested might look/behave like - there are some pretty significant warning signs that something is really wrong.  Parents are better educated, and one can only assume teachers and social workers... er teachers are better informed. 
This leads to more kids in a bad place being reached out to by adults who can help them.  Pedos have been identifying victimized kids forever (many prefer already victimized kids - the kids are trained, so to speak), so it's a big deal that finally more and more normal and helpful adults are able to recognize a kid in trouble.

[Darqstar]

Also people are become (imho) much more aware of what a child who's been molested might look/behave like - there are some pretty significant warning signs that something is really wrong.  Parents are better educated, and one can only assume teachers and social workers... er teachers are better informed. 
This leads to more kids in a bad place being reached out to by adults who can help them.  Pedos have been identifying victimized kids forever (many prefer already victimized kids - the kids are trained, so to speak), so it's a big deal that finally more and more normal and helpful adults are able to recognize a kid in trouble.

Really? I'm so glad to hear that.  I'll be sure to tell my friend, that if she'd only tried harder, her kid would never have been raped.  I'm sure she, her husband, and all the adults in that kid's life will be delighted to know that it's all their fault that at the mature, responsible age of six, this little girl lost her ability to ever have children.  I can't imagine the burden that will be lifted from their shoulders to know that yes, indeed, they are guilty as hell. After all, they've been blaming themselves for five years over this, beating themselves daily about it.  All of us stupid people have been assuring them that nope, they did nothing wrong, that it was a terrible thing, but the only person to blame was the maggot that snagged her and did it to her. 

If the above sounds harsh, it's because I get annoyed when people seem to think they have a magical protective cloak.  "I trained my kid to yell if anyone grabs him!  I taught Suzie to aim for the balls if anyone tries anything on her!"

The fact is that there are adults that can and will overpower a child.  The fact is that even if your kid screams that doesn't mean anyone will give a shit and help the kid.  My niece tried that "HE'S NOT MY DADDY!" trick in a park one day, and not ONE PERSON called the cops.  My brother dragged her out of the park, kicking and screaming, dragged her home, and waited for the cops.  None came.  Fortunately, it was ny niece and the guy who grabbed her was my brother, but how did stranger in a park know that?  They'd just moved into the neighborhood, they didn't know anyone yet.  Yet no one could be bothered to pick up a phone and call 911. 

For every form of protection you come up with, a pedophile will find their way around it.  We have a tendency to think all pedophiles are stupid, they aren't.  They can get on the net, they can read all the different protection people teach their kids and they can learn their way around it. These people are pros at finding and exploiting weakness.

While it's good to teach your children how to defend themselves, it is not an automatic "You'll-never-be-a-victim" card.  It's just stacking the odds more in the child's favor, but it isn't fool proof.  No, I don't believe kids should live in paranoia, but I do believe it never hurt the parents to be extra careful. And even then, never believe that your life is above tragedy. 

Do I think that posting pictures of your kid on the net is dangerous?  Probably not, although you'd be surprised at how much information you might have written casually in your journal that people could put together.  But the idea that a pedophile will find your kid's picture and say, "That's the one, the only one, I shall move heaven and earth to get to that ONE CHILD!" is pretty farfetched.   Children are not rare.  Chances are a sexual predator can find a victim a lot easier than combing through a journal looking for clues to track them down.   But, then again, it isn't impossible either. 

And yes, it might be easy to find the symptoms of a kid who's been groomed by a pedophile, but even that can slip under the radar.  Not all kids show the same symptoms.  Not all pedophiles work the same way.  Some only work on getting the kid's trust, attack, and move on ASAP.  The parents never saw symptoms, because the predator never tried anything sexual until it was too late. 

[SoggyFox]

Same for adults - rape is a violence crime, not a sexual one, even if its using sex as a weapon.  I'm sorry, but I disagree that its better now than then.  There have always been kids who get in trouble for trying to mention the sexual abuse comes from a trusted community or family member, and there have always been kids who could tell someone and get something done - all I think is happening now is that people are screaming pedophilia even when its not appropriate, and muddying the water and making it easier for real pedophiliacs to operate, not harder.

[bmyall]

That's a truly horrifying story Darqstar, Your friend, her daughter, and the whole family have my deepest sympathy.

[El Diablo]

I agree that it's a better climate now in that kids can come forward without automatically being disbelieved and even punished for daring to suggest an adult did such a thing (especially clergy). It's a double-edged sword, though. Kids aren't stupid either, especially as they get older. You hate a teacher, you're mad at a relative, you just want to be the center of attention, etc., you say, "S/he touched me there, s/he asked me/made me do this or this or that." The adult is now on the defensive for one of the most despicable crimes in our society, and there is no innocent until proven guilty. The shadow of suspicion is on you forever, even if the kid recants. People will say the kid took back the lie under pressure, or the school or church or family wanted to cover it all up. I know people who've left professions like teaching and counseling because they just got too afraid of what could happen. Even stopping to help a lost child in a store or on the street, what if the kid started crying or screaming and said, "He tried to take me!" or something like that.

[neriana]

It depends on what you mean by "then". The fact that raping a female child is even considered a serious crime is a huge step forward. Hell, the fact that raping a female, period, is considered a crime against the female and not her husband or father, is absolutely huge. Unfortunately, there are still some families in which pedophilia is simply considered a given. I had a friend who was horrified that my family "let" my uncle and my grandfather babysit me when I was a kid, and who yelled at me for saying if I had kids I'd expect my husband to take care of them as much as me. In her family, it was considered a given that men could not be trusted around children. No one ever reported what happened to her and to her other female family members because they believed that was just the way men were.

I've seen a lot of studies and articles that say you're supposed to teach your child to talk to strangers. They need to be able to talk to the right strangers, and they need to be able to tell when something just isn't right. Nothing will ever keep anyone completely and totally safe, and unfortunately, most Americans don't live in anything like a real community that watches out for its members.

[Tyrza]

Umm... I never said anyone who's kid was victimized should have just tried harder.  But it is my experience that the adults I know and work with do know more about what to watch for when a child is in a bad place. 
Those two statements are not related.
I'm very sorry for what your friends have gone through, it's a terrible thing.  And unless a parent is the perp, I wouldn't ever blame the parents.  But there is more information now, and more parents are - still imho - better informed.  This is hardly ever going to mean ALL parents have the information they need.  I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking about recognizing when a child's already possibly been abused in my statement.
I mean, clearly there's no magical cloak of protection, but there is more help (even if it's sadly after the fact), and more useful information than there was, and every step forward is crucial.  I'm unsure of why that idea should piss anyone off, and I really don't enjoy having what I actually said completely misrepresented.
If you said it wasn't working that way where you are, I'd buy that.  Different areas have differing levels of support for the kids and for their parents.  But it's pretty rotten to take something I said, try to make it something else entirely, and then go off at me about it.  Nowhere did I ever say all parents, all adults, and all children were now savvier, or that being savvier would protect all children in advance.

[Scurvy Cat]

Oh, hell.  Just ignore this one.  Hit the wrong damn thread link. 

[dusdeedawn]

And yes, it might be easy to find the symptoms of a kid who's been groomed by a pedophile, but even that can slip under the radar.  Not all kids show the same symptoms.  Not all pedophiles work the same way.  Some only work on getting the kid's trust, attack, and move on ASAP.  The parents never saw symptoms, because the predator never tried anything sexual until it was too late.

But in most every case, there are signs - after the fact - that the child has been abused. Getting them the help that they need to move forward and regain their sense of self worth, etc. is something that parents today can do better than they could, say, 50 years ago. Parents now are not nearly as likely to hush it all up and tell the child to 'just get over it' or that it was 'their fault anyway' and such. Light has been shown on this in the past couple decades, and people are not as afraid to reach out for help as they once were, and society now puts the blame where it belongs (on the abuser, not the victim). Preventing it is incredibly important, but, like you said, it still happens. What is done after it happens is the difference between self-loathing and self-confidence for the victims and their mental state the rest of their lives.