I smell bullshit

[Quorneater]

Although I am not personally involved in the file transfers to or from this site, by personal choice, the fact remains that anyone who can copy EA's work and sell it against their explicit licence agreement is in no position to moan if someone copies the same work and gives it away.

Adding your own bit of mesh to the work you're stealing from EA doesn't make it yours to sell.

[...]

You guys take yourselves so seriously, like you are on some kind of grand crusade, to save the world from ... er, something or other, I'm not sure quite what.

WE DO?! *looks around wildly*

Protecting Maxis' EULA?  But Maxis not only knows about paysites, they don't just "turn a blind eye" to them, they actively support them - they have interviews with various pay site owners on their own site, invite them to get-togethers, do interviews on paysites themselves...

Nah, forget about that EULA crap, you're just making yourselves look like idiots.

The "I don't have an intelligent defense, but I'll pretend to have one and then drop it because you're all too stupid to follow it, haha" defense. I see.

You're smarter than this. Stop it.

[Quorneater]

I think Maxis have gone back to the mistake they almost rectified when they put Maxoid Tom out there into the world.  They are out of touch with the Sims community developments.   For example, when looking for SimCity sites, I found one major modding site and perhaps one other chat site.  City Life the same etc etc.    Maxis probably actively supported one large The Sims site plus one in each country in order to ensure there was a base for custom content to make the game more attractive to buy and continue playing.   Because they were anxious for the site to remain viable, they turned a blind eye to the charging system.

It's not even all that unfortunate for EA that there is all this hassle now, because it's a part of the game that political-type strategy people can play, and has probably caught up people who would have lost interest in the game by now just like being able to make CC has kept the interest of the creative types who might otherwise have stopped buying the game.

[lemmiwinks]

The old Hollywood adage applies - "There's no such thing as bad publicity".
EA rakes in the cash no matter what happens,

[Dr Pixel]

I don't know why, but I really expected better of Dr Pixel than to come in a spout the same tired old criticisms we've been hearing from the very start...I expected, I don't know, more research on his part, or...less "you are childish idiots, wasting your time" pokes, or.....something. :?

I suppose it never occurred to you that you are childish idiots?

Well, some people don't want to look at reality, do they?

I also see that no one has actually read the infamous EULA - if you really read it, it says nothing at all about making a profit from the content - it simply says you can't distribute it - period.  It is pretty much the standard sort of EULA that comes with any piece of software, from Windows right on down the line.

From that viewpoint, any and all user-created content is in violation, no matter if it is free or not.

And the old "I paid for it, I can share it if I want" excuse is pretty lame too.  That means it is OK to distribute mp3's, copys of Windows, Maya, Poser meshes and so on, right?  Is that what you are saying?

Distributing other people's work without their permission is stealing, no matter how you try to dress it up.

[Quorneater]

I also see that no one has actually read the infamous EULA - if you really read it, it says nothing at all about making a profit from the content - it simply says you can't distribute it - period.

I am sorry but I don't think you are correct about this.  I have read it myself and my understanding is more in accordance with the PMBD interpretation.  Except the difference here is that I feel the images and meshes added to the EA content *are* the property of the artist (erm - or the *original* artist in the case of those stolen from the Poser people etc) and that is why I am not involved in the file sharing.  However, adding ones own content to a file already full of someone else's copyright content, does not mean you now own all the data in the entire file and can do what you like with it.   EA's intention behind allowing the engineering of their data was to promote *free* sharing of game-enhancing content.

Those people who wish to exchange their images and meshes for money should distribute those separately, along with instructions for how to import them into game files.

[rosebud]

I suppose it never occurred to you that you are childish idiots?

Call us what you will, at least we don't deceive people out of their money for buying used jockstraps.

I also see that no one has actually read the infamous EULA - if you really read it, it says nothing at all about making a profit from the content - it simply says you can't distribute it - period.  It is pretty much the standard sort of EULA that comes with any piece of software, from Windows right on down the line.

Well, it means no one cares about the damn EULA, injustice here and there you shout but so far no one takes legal action for it, now that's reality for you, mister!

And the old "I paid for it, I can share it if I want" excuse is pretty lame too.  That means it is OK to distribute mp3's, copys of Windows, Maya, Poser meshes and so on, right?  Is that what you are saying?

Distributing other people's work without their permission is stealing, no matter how you try to dress it up.

And selling "donation" packs while raking BIG money for bandwidth reasons are LYING, no matter how pitiful you plead. It's a blatant deception, too bad there are so many people out there who didn't bother to actually count the numbers.

And don't try to use any copyright permission reasons or those file sharing argument because the people who made windows, Maya, Poser, etc. cause they made the programs from SCRATCH. While a lot of paysite owner took other people's meshes, made their creations from Maxis bases and is making profit off it by deceiving about "donations" for bandwidth.

You can call us childish, idiots but in reality we're too smart to pay for things that are supposed to be free, we tried to be nice but then some "doctor" just came here and berating everyone, it's not a nice way to make someone see through YOUR perspective or understand it.

[Capucine]

Given that a single "shared" hosting server may hold maybe 5-10 trafficked sites, if I buy 5-10 unmetered accounts on the server, I have effectively bought the server at a far lower price than you're paying.

Um, it's more in the region of 200-500 sites on a shared hosting server (it can be as many as 1000) and these sites are all designated a percentage of the server's resources, whether they have people visiting them or not.

[karu]

Dr Pixel has given his share of donation$ to the community.   I think it's all about acknowledgement.  Dr Pixel also made some nice pirate objects and clothes.  

[Marhis]

It's very disappointing, to me, read Dr. Pixel's posts, 'cause I used to look at him with respect and esteem, both for his skills and many of his other posts on different subjects.

It seems clear, to me, that your opinion on this matter cames from a very superficial reading of the core issue here on this board. I don't blame you for, because I'm fully aware that it's not easy to dig it out from all the forum content, and nobody may be feel guilt having not spent many hours reading all the forum.
And of course, we all - myself included - may be idiots or childish at full, or may be sometimes only, or joking, or else. You can not know for sure, if you don't inform you better.

Unfortunately, I'm not the most right person for the purpose of summarize and clarify the matter, in part also for my very poor skills in english writing. The best I can do for helping you to inform better, is to point you to this thread: http://forums.sims2community.com/showthread.php?t=30984.
It's long, either, but not so much as the full content of these boards. But it's very enlightening: it's on a neutral ground, and contains many points of view from both sides and from people not involved in the issue.

Take your time, read along, no need to hurry. I don't hope this may change your mind, of course, you may stand your ground and retain the same original opinion: what matters to me is that your opinion will be correctly - and better - informed, not else.

[Quorneater]

Karu, no one can justify selling *someone else's* property based on how much of their own they have given away free.

[seapup]

For some reason the mental image of purple faced CC creators angrily banging away on their keyboards in defence of their "intellectual property" amuses me greatly. Rant on dr. pixel.  :lol:

[karu]

Karu, no one can justify selling *someone else's* property based on how much of their own they have given away free.

I was speculating on Dr Pixels point of view.

[jesserocket]

I don't know why, but I really expected better of Dr Pixel than to come in a spout the same tired old criticisms we've been hearing from the very start...I expected, I don't know, more research on his part, or...less "you are childish idiots, wasting your time" pokes, or.....something. :?

I suppose it never occurred to you that you are childish idiots? [1]

Well, some people don't want to look at reality, do they?

I also see that no one has actually read the infamous EULA - if you really read it, it says nothing at all about making a profit from the content [2] - it simply says you can't distribute it - period.  It is pretty much the standard sort of EULA that comes with any piece of software, from Windows right on down the line.

From that viewpoint, any and all user-created content is in violation, no matter if it is free or not.

[1] Nice comeback, well done, fully in the spirit of debate there. "You are what I said you are, because I say so, and if you disagree, you're proving my point". Thank you for the patronizing.

[2] It states

You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products

It's the word 'noncommercial'. At the very much most lenient interpretation of the word noncommercial, it means you're not allowed to make profit from things you've made for The Sims. Commerce is accepting money for goods or services. Pure and simple. I think it's pretty damn clear, myself, but I'm notoriously stupid and sucky and now also childish...*shrugs*

[Surelyfunke]

Dr Pixel has given his share of donation$ to the community.   I think it's all about acknowledgement.  Dr Pixel also made some nice pirate objects and clothes.  

LOL. How ironic!

I tend to stand back from quibblings over what EA's EULA means, for 2 reasons: a) I personally don't think it means very much, especially on the basis that it reads as a very ambiguous document, highly dependent on interpretation, and b) I don't need an EULA from EA to tell me that selling CC for money is wrong. Even if EA came down from their fence and said that it was OK for paysites to exist, I would probably still continue to pirate CC until I get that cease-or-desist order.  :lol:

Before I played the Sims 2, I played SimCity for years. There is CC in the SimCity community too. I get mine from Simtropolis, which is one of the largest CC sites and has a big forum too. The attitude of CC creators from Simtropolis essentially is like this:

"Oh, I spent days creating this enormous likeness of a great city building, and left my computer on OVERNIGHT to render it in my 3D program, but please, download my stuff, because it's COOL!"

Not once did I EVER hear anyone complain about not getting paid for spending 20+ hours rendering buildings on their machines, or whine about deserving any kind of compensation. People in the SC community WANT everyone to download their creations. I'm sure if someone decided they wanted to start charging for their downloads, people would come down on them and mock/smack the crap out of them for suggesting something so ludicrous and obviously disrespectful of the fans.

Such different responses from 2 franchises that operate under the EA umbrella!

When I started playing Sims 2, I learned about CC and went looking on Google Directory for some sites. I believe the first site I stumbled upon was WDS. My jaw DROPPED. I couldn't believe that not only were people CHARGING for something as miniscule as CLOTHING for Sim people, but they were expecting you to fork over amounts of money for a subscription to their site! In fact I was so shocked, I called my best friend who lives on the other side of the globe just to tell her. She is not a gamer by any means, and she also found it LUDICROUS that people were charging for 3rd party fan-created content. She is not a gamer but still understood how this was totally disrespectful to a community and a long-standing tradition of NOT screwing over your fellow community members by charging them for your creations.

And THIS is the biggest reason why I am totally against Paysites. I don't care what EA or its wishy-washy EULA has to say about Paysites. Charging for CC is WRONG, period. Nobody before The Sims were charging for content. Paysites are an aberration, not the norm. All those deluded people who think good CC would go away and die off if there were no Paysites need to take a look in OTHER gaming communities that have years and years of a non-paysite history, and know how wrong, misguided and brainwashed they are.