I smell bullshit

[lordrichter]

If that is the case, why don't they remove content at the request of the uploader?  When submitting to TSR, you give them permission to keep your files to do with as they please.

Yeah, well, my answer to that is don't upload to TSR.  

If someone uploads anyway and they keep doing it, then shut up about it.  

Those people get no sympathy from me...

[BlueSoup]

I don't remember being informed that the content I submitted there was there forever, even if they at some point barred me from their site.

[lordrichter]

I don't remember being informed that the content I submitted there was there forever, even if they at some point barred me from their site.

By submitting files to us you are giving us (The Sims Resource) permission to host those files permanently and to be distributed via any media (electronic or physical).

Whether that was there when you submitted or not is unknown.

[Quorneater]

That's even worse than the Exchange!

[lordrichter]

That's even worse than the Exchange!

Once you post or send any Content to EA.com, you expressly grant EA.com Inc. the complete and irrevocable right to quote, re-post, use, reproduce, modify, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to your screen name in EA.com's discretion, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

There isn't much of a difference between what TSR writes and what EA writes, but EA is more upfront about it.

[tIIsuggas]

You can at least delete your own uploads from the exchange.

[lordrichter]

You can at least delete your own uploads from the exchange.

Can you?  You can make it so that they are not available to other Exchange users and not visible to you.  That is not the same as actually deleting all copies of the content that EA might have stashed away.

There are no provisions in the EA terms for revoking the rights assigned when uploading, quite the opposite, actually, so I cannot see how deleting the content would ensure that EA could not continue to do what they please.

In actual fact, when you delete you may be physically deleting everything but any disaster recovery backups that were made during the routine operation of the Exchange.  But, legally, EA is not required to delete anything.  If they are deleting things, it is a kindness, most likely borne out of a lack of desire to hold onto everything.  For that reason, I expect that when you delete something off the exchange, it is actually deleted, except for disaster recovery backups, if any.

Past behavior indicates that EA does not sneak around in this manner.

[calalily]

Well, as far as intellectual property and copyright, according to Australian law, which is where I am, intellectual property recognition doesn't apply to artistic works, and any artistic design work must be copyrighted in order to allow for a legal protection of ones' rights.  

Retaining copyright also allows you to license others to reproduce and modify that work (which is what EA is doing for cc in the EULA).  I would like to see others try to license (a bit like pyramid selling there  :lol: )

As for the whole intellectual property argument, it's the same in my field - when I write a journal article, someone else can quote and reference me (if they don't reference me it's plagiarism) but I can't stop anyone from using my work - that's what research is built on.  And I certainly can't stop someone in a library from reading or photocopying my work (under the fair use policy) - there could be millions of copies all over the world of my work, and I can't do anything about it, unless they plagiarise (which just ruins your academic career, and little more).  Nor do I want to do anything about it.

I'm sorry I can't give the whole world wide definition, but I'll try to familiarise myself with international treaties and law.

[graniaomalley]

Well, as far as intellectual property and copyright, according to Australian law, which is where I am, intellectual property recognition doesn't apply to artistic works, and any artistic design work must be copyrighted in order to allow for a legal protection of ones' rights.  

Retaining copyright also allows you to license others to reproduce and modify that work (which is what EA is doing for cc in the EULA).  I would like to see others try to license (a bit like pyramid selling there  :lol: )

As for the whole intellectual property argument, it's the same in my field - when I write a journal article, someone else can quote and reference me (if they don't reference me it's plagiarism) but I can't stop anyone from using my work - that's what research is built on.  And I certainly can't stop someone in a library from reading or photocopying my work (under the fair use policy) - there could be millions of copies all over the world of my work, and I can't do anything about it, unless they plagiarise (which just ruins your academic career, and little more).  Nor do I want to do anything about it.

I'm sorry I can't give the whole world wide definition, but I'll try to familiarise myself with international treaties and law.

That's some very interesting comparisons! Thank you for pointing that out.

[BlueSoup]

You can at least delete your own uploads from the exchange.

Can you?  You can make it so that they are not available to other Exchange users and not visible to you.  That is not the same as actually deleting all copies of the content that EA might have stashed away.

There are no provisions in the EA terms for revoking the rights assigned when uploading, quite the opposite, actually, so I cannot see how deleting the content would ensure that EA could not continue to do what they please.

In actual fact, when you delete you may be physically deleting everything but any disaster recovery backups that were made during the routine operation of the Exchange.  But, legally, EA is not required to delete anything.  If they are deleting things, it is a kindness, most likely borne out of a lack of desire to hold onto everything.  For that reason, I expect that when you delete something off the exchange, it is actually deleted, except for disaster recovery backups, if any.

Past behavior indicates that EA does not sneak around in this manner.

That was a whole lot of words for something that boiled down to "I would agree."

Wordiness is not a virtue.

[lordrichter]

Well, as far as intellectual property and copyright, according to Australian law, which is where I am, intellectual property recognition doesn't apply to artistic works, and any artistic design work must be copyrighted in order to allow for a legal protection of ones' rights.  

Oddly enough, that does not matter.  What matters is where it was copyrighted, not what the copyright law says in Australia.

That was a whole lot of words for something that boiled down to "I would agree."

Wordiness is not a virtue.

Yeah, but it was worth it to get the point across that just because EA does something nice now does not necessarily mean that they will always do it.  They are entitled to do something different.

And, saying something like ""EA may not always let you delete your own stuff from the Exchange." isn't accurate since they might let you delete and STILL use the content.

Conspiracy theorists demand these things, I am happy to provide them.

[calalily]

Well, as far as intellectual property and copyright, according to Australian law, which is where I am, intellectual property recognition doesn't apply to artistic works, and any artistic design work must be copyrighted in order to allow for a legal protection of ones' rights.  

Oddly enough, that does not matter.  What matters is where it was copyrighted, not what the copyright law says in Australia.

No, what matters is that in Australia at least, the 'intellectual property' doesn't hold one ounce of water.  As for copyright, under the terms of the Berne convention for international treaties, one must have the exclusive right to publish the works - nobody does until EA says so.

In order to show breach, the site must show that they have had their economic interests damaged as a result of publication, which if the poll about "do you or would you subscribe" is of any interest, shows that it doesn't.

Also note, for creators in general - that they have the right to make the cc rules, and that is recognised:

Article 12: Authors of literary or artistic works shall enjoy the exclusive right of authorizing adaptations, arrangements and other alterations of their works.

So wonderful creators like the ones who visit here are protected under copyright treaties - ghanima, nouk, liegonsheit (sp?), kathy etc..

[Super_Pirate_Dude]

That was a whole lot of words for something that boiled down to "I would agree."

Wordiness is not a virtue.

I agree  :wink:

[Quinctia]

I'm very involved in other communities that create derivative works.  Sims' content is also a derivative work.  It is based on, and contains some copywritten intellectual property that does not belong to the creator.

In all these other communities (writing, graphics, art), most people give credit to all their sources.  I very rarely see people crediting the photosources for their photo-based skins, and we've seen proof that many meshes are converted for Sims use from higher poly meshes, with the original creator uncredited.  Hell, most fanfic and fanart have disclaimers saying things like "I don't own Final Fantasy, Star Trek, or Harry Potter," even though it's obvious, but I rarely see anyone individually giving props to EA.  And respecting them.

People also only charge for physical works of art.  That's it.  You don't charge for fanfic, you don't charge people to look at your drawing online, and you certainly don't throw a fit if someone has downloaded it to their computer for their own use.  Oh no, I've had people print out physical copies of my fanfic, they must be dirty rotten STEALERS.

So it seems like most people who create in the Sims community 1) can't give credit where credit is due and 2) can't wrap their heads around fair use.  They also don't respect EA, the creator of the game.  The EULA and changes to Bodyshop, along with the Exchange shows that the creator of the game wants you to share.

So why should I respect people that can't do these very simple things to respect others?  In some ways, how the booty here is posted gives more credit where credit is due than most of the CC creators do with theirs!

[idtaminger]

Are we still arguing w/ half-coherent minions-on-a-mission? I mean really, it's just the same points being reiterated. You'd have better luck talking to a machine. At least w/ machines you could program some different responses. :roll: