I smell bullshit

[Quorneater]

Well, I have unlimited and run at 3 TB a month right now.

Are you sure?   Seems a lot more than I would have guessed for this site.  I would be a bit skeptical if you can keep that up on the hosting plan you have without someone eventually hmming about it.

[Capucine]

Delphy speaks the truth. I once had an inexplicably popular Sims site (in the days of the original game) and bandwith wasn't the problem at all. The amount of concurrent visitors, all asking for files puts load on the server. With 5000-odd (unique) visitors a day the site was getting at its peak, needless to say the load was tremendous. While the site was on shared hosting the chaps at the hosting company, a little bit taken-aback at the popularity of my silly little site actually disabled the other sites on the server once, just to see how much resorces my site would run off with :lol:
Part of my disgust for paysites comes from my experience, my dedicated server was $100 a month and I managed to keep the site free, for God's sake. Ad revenue alone more than flippin' covered it... :shock:

[sickpuppy]

I smell bull shit! lol

Operating costs, with intelligent hosting selection, are on the order of $100-$150 a year, which is how much it costs us to pirate all their shit and offer it free to the world.

TSRs hosting costs are at least on par with MTS2s - probably a bit higher since they have (at last rememberance) 10 servers whereas MTS2 has 7 (if you include S2C).  They also pay people for managing the site and servers and coding and all that jazz.

Not to put a dampener on your "$150 a year" thing, but in all honestly, you really couldn't run a site the size of MTS2 or TSR on that kind of money since you'd be looking at 1) shared hosting and 2) not much bandwidth per month, which equals crappy performance and so on.  Remember that you don't have as many concurrent users download stuff as they (or I) do.  Any website provider who has a vast number of people downloading stuff concurrently is going to want to shift you onto dedicated boxes, which ups costs.

That said, they do have a lot of ads (they are *everywhere*) and a lot of "omg sign up now!!!" stuff, which is really annoying, so I'd say they are getting a lot more than you think.

Well, Delph the Dog, I don't see you coughing up any 'exact numbers'. Why not? Says to me JM is right yet again and you are lie lie lieing again.

I also see lots of 'Donate now' banners at MTS2, in the download threads.

So what ARE you saying here? Seems to me that what you are REALLY trying to say is 'Man, I'm cool, see how cool I am to join in here?'  Tell me I'm wrong in words I can't argue with?

[Pescado]

Yeah but it's not about bandwidth at all Pescado.  It's about CPU load, database queries, server optimisations and just general concurrent users at any one time.

That's because MTS2 runs bloatware forum technology. Had you selected software optimized for performance, you wouldn't have this problem: Forums are technology that's over 10 years old. I simply find it impossible to believe that a properly optimized forum can chew up computers many times more powerful than the computers of 10 years ago.

However, we run raw HTTP dumps. CPU load is practically nonexistent. According to serverside monitoring, the loadage caused by the actual usage here is nearly nil, and since I can buy the use a server for < $10/month, I just don't see the concern.

Don't think about it in purely bandwidth terms - there are a lot of other reasons to have multiple servers.  Running MTS2 on a single server even with unlimited bandwidth would basically result in a completely unusable site and it'll kill the box.  I may not be as cheap as you, but I still do want to have a working website ;)p/quote]
I can buy multiple servers, too. Paying $300 a server is just not necessary unless you just absolutely, positively, have to have root. I see this as one of those not-necessary masturbatory geek things.

Regardless though, with optimisations and improvements you can cut down the number you need, and make it so that things run better, thus not needing to upgrade so much (ie pay more for more powerful machines, etc).

It doesn't hurt that some people are just inclined to throw more money at the problem, either. Me, I am a complete and utter miser. I have traditionally rigged up solutions that function just as well as far as I'm concerned, but invariably cost less than a tenth of what someone else who doesn't experience physical pain at the idea of spending money would have paid. It's all about motivation. Compared to how much you pay for a "dedicated" server, I could buy out every other site on a shared server and still pay less than you, and effectively have a dedicated server anyway by virtue of having bought out everyone else. Remember, you are, at minimum, likely paying 30x what I'm paying per server. Given that a single "shared" hosting server may hold maybe 5-10 trafficked sites, if I buy 5-10 unmetered accounts on the server, I have effectively bought the server at a far lower price than you're paying.

I point out you actually *PAY* for a vBulletin license! I've seen how much that costs. Merely THINKING about paying for that causes me physical pain! Clearly, cost-slashing at any price is not amongst your foremost priorities, because I would rather be stabbed or shot than pay that much! It would hurt less.

[Dr Pixel]

I smell bullshit too - but it's not coming from Delphi.

I try to avoid threads like these, other than to laugh at them - but there is only so much BS I can take.

You guys take yourselves so seriously, like you are on some kind of grand crusade, to save the world from ... er, something or other, I'm not sure quite what.

I do understand, I was 12 years old myself once.  But it helps to pick a valid crusade.

Protecting Maxis' EULA?  But Maxis not only knows about paysites, they don't just "turn a blind eye" to them, they actively support them - they have interviews with various pay site owners on their own site, invite them to get-togethers, do interviews on paysites themselves...

Nah, forget about that EULA crap, you're just making yourselves look like idiots.

You don't like paysites?  It's easy, just don't subscribe to 'em.

I think it's stupid to pay four times the cost of a pair of Wrangler Jeans just to have some designer's name on my ass - so, I just don't buy 'em.
It's that simple, and I can spend my "crusading" time on something more important...

Or, if you really think it's that important, just be honest about it - come right out and say it:  "I want this stuff, I don't want to have to pay for it, so I'll just steal it."  Real pirates didn't hide behind a bunch of bullshit, they just took what they wanted at the point of a sword.  Blackbeard never spoke the word "EULA" in his life.

And I can personally attest that the crap about the webhosting costs is pure BS.  I have had a small Sims site for several years, since back in the Sims1 days.  It is now on it's 4th webhosting service, having been kicked off the first three for using too much of the "unlimited bandwith" they offered.  And this is a small, insignificant site - with at most 1000 visitors a day, usually closer to 500, and average bandwith usage of 40G a month.  The present hosting service doesn't complain about it (not yet anyway) but it does cost a bit more than $200 per year - and it would cost even more if I want to increase the amount of storage space used for the site.  Maybe I could host it for less if I was knowledgeable about thi sort of stuff, if I had the time and money to set up my own server, etc...  But I don't, nor do most people.  

I could go on, I found a lot more BS floating around this site, but it's Christmas so I'm trying to be nice.

Have a Happy Holiday, everyone, and don't let me spoil your grand crusade by injecting a bit of truth into it.

[Quinctia]

BS yourself.

At Dreamhost, a fairly run of the mill hosting joint, for $120 a year you get 200GB storage (+1G each week) and 2TB transfer a month (+16G every week).

On the other hand, I know what Delphy's saying about hosting issues that are unrelated to bandwidth.  A friend of mine suddenly got tossed from his hosting last year because his forums were overloading the servers.  He moved to invision BB hosting and put the rest of the site elsewhere.

Also, anyone with half a brain can see why EA's straddling the fence at this point.  It makes them more $$ to turn their head.  They are actually trying to support pay sites like TSR and sharing whatever you want at the same time.  That doesn't change the fact that if you support creators' rights, you've got to support EA's creators' rights.

However, I have seen people put together "stuff packs" on their own.  They were free and offered for things like summer, Easter, or Halloween.  But I imagine the moment that someone made a pay stuff pack that could compete with EA's own would be the time someone got acted against for breaking the EULA.

[sickpuppy]

......You guys take yourselves so seriously......

Why don't you go read before jumping to conclusions? I doubt anyone here really takes themselves seriously.

YES, there are REAL reasons why paysites are wrong. illegal, morally reprehensible, greedy etc. And hell yes, we want the booty. Are you stupid?

[Pescado]

And I can personally attest that the crap about the webhosting costs is pure BS.  I have had a small Sims site for several years, since back in the Sims1 days.  It is now on it's 4th webhosting service, having been kicked off the first three for using too much of the "unlimited bandwith" they offered. And this is a small, insignificant site - with at most 1000 visitors a day, usually closer to 500, and average bandwith usage of 40G a month.

BWAHAHAHA. 40GB a month. You got kicked off for 40 GB a month. We run 3 *TB* a month. Read 'em and weep.

The ability to burn 40 GB is nothing compared to power of the Force.

The present hosting service doesn't complain about it (not yet anyway) but it does cost a bit more than $200 per year - and it would cost even more if I want to increase the amount of storage space used for the site.  Maybe I could host it for less if I was knowledgeable about thi sort of stuff, if I had the time and money to set up my own server, etc...  But I don't, nor do most people.

$200/yr is high, but not on a completely different scale, and neither case involves setting up your own server. How much "storage space" were you thinking? 5 GB spaces can be had for $60/yr or even less, depending on how many nosy prying questions you want to deflect. All cases involve unlimited bandwidth. Stupidity and ignorance is not an excuse: If you're not willing to invest a few minutes to find some competitive pricing, you get ripped off. It's that simple. You don't have to be "knowledgeable" about this sort of stuff. You just have to CEASE BEING STUPID.

[BlueSoup]

You guys take yourselves so seriously, like you are on some kind of grand crusade, to save the world from ... er, something or other, I'm not sure quite what.

We're not the ones screaming about lawyers and the FBI coming to shut down the evil filesharing sites.  Check with LyricLee and Thomas on that one.

Or, if you really think it's that important, just be honest about it - come right out and say it:  "I want this stuff, I don't want to have to pay for it, so I'll just steal it."

I don't steal anything, I pay for it.  It's my business whether I want to share it or not.

And I can personally attest that the crap about the webhosting costs is pure BS.  I have had a small Sims site for several years, since back in the Sims1 days.  It is now on it's 4th webhosting service, having been kicked off the first three for using too much of the "unlimited bandwith" they offered.  And this is a small, insignificant site - with at most 1000 visitors a day, usually closer to 500, and average bandwith usage of 40G a month.  The present hosting service doesn't complain about it (not yet anyway) but it does cost a bit more than $200 per year - and it would cost even more if I want to increase the amount of storage space used for the site.  Maybe I could host it for less if I was knowledgeable about thi sort of stuff, if I had the time and money to set up my own server, etc...  But I don't, nor do most people.  

I don't know shit about setting up my own server, I simply did a bit of research any 11-year-old could do and found something I could afford that seemed reasonable.  I am with godaddy, and I have 250 GB per month bandwidth, for $40 year.  It's not as much as this site, but it'll do for my needs.  And that's the cheapest plan they have, if necessary, I can upgrade for more.

[jesserocket]

I don't know why, but I really expected better of Dr Pixel than to come in a spout the same tired old criticisms we've been hearing from the very start...I expected, I don't know, more research on his part, or...less "you are childish idiots, wasting your time" pokes, or.....something. :?

[Swashbuckler]

You shouldn't expect much from TSR people.. They're either getting heavily paid by TSR or complete gimps for giving all their creator rights to TSR to be heavily profited on.  In both cases the idea of free stuff either threatens their profits or make them look like idiots.  Theres no grand crusade against paysites here, just some people that want to take a shot at the scum of the community.

[Randomness]

You shouldn't expect much from TSR people.. They're either getting heavily paid by TSR or complete gimps for giving all their creator rights to TSR to be heavily profited on.  In both cases the idea of free stuff either threatens their profits or make them look like idiots.  Theres no grand crusade against paysites here, just some people that want to take a shot at the scum of the community.

The odd thing about Dr. Pixel is that some of the stuff he offers on TSR as pay items he actually has on his own site for free. I'm not quite sure what that says about him and his viewpoint, but I'm still going to disagree with him not only about his position on this issue, but also the way he went about expressing it.

And one more time for your benefit, Dr. Pixel, a lot of the people frequenting this site are choosing not to subscribe at these sites and never had any intention to in any case. Why are you getting so upset?

[Super_Pirate_Dude]

I smell bullshit too - but it's not coming from Delphi.

Yeah it's coming from you.  :lol:

You don't like paysites? It's easy, just don't subscribe to 'em.

We don't intend to, hence "Paysites Must Be Destroyed", and notice it isn't "Paysites Must Be Kept Going".

I used to have respect for you, Dr P! But now I know better!

One more thing, you are made of bullshit and that is what you will always be made of.  :twisted:

[Randomness]

Also:

I smell bullshit too - but it's not coming from Delphi.

Since when did Delphy become a Greek town?  :?

[BlueSoup]

I dunno, I think he holds many secrets...

btw, happy birthday Denimjo.