Would Anyone Care to Chime In?

[simsfunk]

You did accuse Denimjo of lying, though. Given that we know Denimjo is kind of stupid, are you sure the situation is not more easily explained by stupidity than malice?

Erm... YOU all might know Denimjo like that - I certainly don't, and given what she has accused ME of, I think one accusation of her lying is very small in comparison...

Here are the PMs.

The only thing I have removed is some information about linking to MATY which is irrelevant to this. Denimjo should, I hope, testify to this...
_______________________________________
Me to her:

Okay,

First things first... I just want you to know, I am ALL for PMBD!! I have never had any kind of problem with them. I think what they are doing is fine... (although if it turns out they ARE "stealing" the stuff from the creators to put up at the site, that's probably not such a great thing!)

I've never had a problem with filesharing... I'll be honest - I have paid for subscriptions at Peggy and RoseSims before, which I can afford to do, and shared the files with people I like and trust who I know CAN'T afford to do so. So - there we go. There is my official view on filesharing out in the open (well with you anyway!! :lol:)

However, I'm completely confused as to how all this crap has come about on the other forum. I don't quite understand why you had to go over there and essentially take the piss out of all of us there. (which is what I was upset with you about by the way...)

I was a little miffed about how you handled it, and made members on Boolprop look immature. And now, Boolpropians keep thinking they have to go over there and defend or fight or whatever and it's getting a little out of hand...

I have never had a problem with you. I certainly don't WANT to have a problem with you (you should have seen the PM I almost sent yesterday!!:oops: ) and I know that none of us AdMods want to lock the debate thread, but we need to get both threads (here AND at PMBD) under control somehow... and they don't seem to like listening to me.
______________________________________

Her to Me

Okay,

First things first... I just want you to know, I am ALL for PMBD!! I have never had any kind of problem with them. I think what they are doing is fine... (although if it turns out they ARE "stealing" the stuff from the creators to put up at the site, that's probably not such a great thing!)

You are, of course, entitled to think that, despite all evidence to the contrary.

However, I'm completely confused as to how all this crap has come about on the other forum. I don't quite understand why you had to go over there and essentially take the piss out of all of us there. (which is what I was upset with you about by the way...)

The only reason I asked people over there to come and post here was because Drew said that he didn't want to see one person (i.e. me) continuing to respond to everyone else, so I asked people at that site to come and back me up. I figured that most people would be respectful enough on this site to be polite in their messages, and they have been. However, what people choose to say on other forums is, quite frankly, not something that should be brought up here since that site is not allowed to be linked to, and thus misinformation about who said exactly what about anyone else in what context can't be publically displayed.

I was a little miffed about how you handled it, and made members on Boolprop look immature. And now, Boolpropians keep thinking they have to go over there and defend or fight or whatever and it's getting a little out of hand...

Here's the thing: you can't really stop anyone from googling the site and finding in on their own, nor can you stop anyone from joining to respond to that thread there either. You just have to trust that the members of this forum are mature enough to conduct themselves in a respectful way, even if other people won't, because that's the kind of site PMBD is: rude, brash, up front and honest. There's no false niceness or fake sincerity there, since no one is threatening to punish anyone for being not nice (and by punish I mean warn, ban or the like). I'm not saying the way this forum is run is wrong, it's just radically different than the way PMDB's forum is.

I have never had a problem with you. I certainly don't WANT to have a problem with you (you should have seen the PM I almost sent yesterday!! :oops:) and I know that none of us AdMods want to lock the debate thread, but we need to get both threads (here AND at PMBD) under control somehow... and they don't seem to like listening to me.

There's the thing: you can't make anyone do what you ask them to do (notice how on PMBD I asked someone to stop ragging on you and rubbersushi and they flatly said 'no.' That's all you can do, really). What I suggest you do is make a public request here on this site about what you would like to see people do or not do (bearing in mind that no one is under any obligation to follow your requests) and then just leave it alone. You don't have any authority over there, and eventually people are going to lose interest in both threads and the whole thing will die down.

And I'd like to know why precisely you were (or are) pissed off at me in the first place.  :?

The last thing I'd want to see happen is to have the thread here locked because of something that's happening at an entirely different (and unrelated) forum.
______________________________________

Me to Her

   
(although if it turns out they ARE "stealing" the stuff from the creators to put up at the site, that's probably not such a great thing!)

You are, of course, entitled to think that, despite all evidence to the contrary.

   
I'm assuming here that you're saying evidence against them stealing... I did NOT say they were. I did not say that I THINK they are... You're putting words in my mouth here. I just said IF. I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all.

And I'd like to know why precisely you were (or are) pissed off at me in the first place.

As this is a private message, fine. I'm pissed off because you went over there, and made a mockery of the people here - which started off the whole "big words" debate... Rolling your eyes because somebody said they had a headache about the big words... I didn't think there was any need for that. THAT's what pissed me off.
____________________________________

Her to Me

I'm assuming here that you're saying evidence against them stealing... I did NOT say they were. I did not say that I THINK they are... You're putting words in my mouth here. I just said IF. I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all.

It's been stated several times how people have been getting the content, Emma. There are people that donate for the items and then choose to take the files they have received and share them with other people. There is no "stealing" involved in any way. That's actually where the 'sharing of personal information' factoid came into play: pay sites are sharing information like real names, addresses, phone numbers, usernames, etc. with other paysites to try to figure out who's sharing the files.

As this is a private message, fine. I'm pissed off because you went over there, and made a mockery of the people here - which started off the whole "big words" debate... Rolling your eyes because somebody said they had a headache about the big words... I didn't think there was any need for that. THAT's what pissed me off.

Well, it's certainly your decision to get all pissed off because I chose to display my irritation at someone's comments elsewhere and not on this site. You can also continue to think I was "mocking" people over here if you'd like as well; since you obviously want to believe that, I'm not going to waste my time trying to inform you otherwise.

You know what I think would help you out a lot? Forget about what's happening over there; concentrate on what's being said here. This forum and that forum are run two totally different ways, and it takes quite the adjustment to go from one extreme (everyone is sweet and pleasant and chirpy) to the other (people are unabashedly rude, upfront and in-your-face about their feelings).
_______________________________________________

Me to Her

It's been stated several times how people have been getting the content, Emma. There are people that donate for the items and then choose to take the files they have received and share them with other people. There is no "stealing" involved in any way.

Good grief. You really go all out when you're responding to stuff don't you?!

I said I didn't know where they were getting their stuff for the site from. I have said to Jenn on this site (in plain view so I KNOW you have seen me) on many occasions that you can't go accusing people of stealing... In fact I think I also said in the main forums that, ALTHOUGH I didn't know, I believed that people who had donated were simply sharing what they donated for.

Just because I haven't seen the EXACT places where they state where they are getting their content from does not mean I am saying that they are stealing. I didn't think they were. It is not your job to jump to their defence.

pay sites are sharing information like real names, addresses, phone numbers, usernames, etc. with other paysites to try to figure out who's sharing the files.

I AM however, aware of this. I even asked them at PMBD for their help, but they didn't give me any. They didn't even respond to my post. So how benevolent should I be exactly???

You know what I think would help you out a lot? Forget about what's happening over there; concentrate on what's being said here.

How about taking some of your OWN advice and not running to your friends for help. You asked to have a debate on Boolprop, you got one. You were the one who brought the other forum into it.
____________________________________________________

Her to Me

Maybe I should now amend my previous statements about you. I didn't have a problem with you before; you've certainly made me have one with you now with your unnecessarily pissy attitude and leaps of logic. *sigh*

It's been stated several times how people have been getting the content, Emma. There are people that donate for the items and then choose to take the files they have received and share them with other people. There is no "stealing" involved in any way.

Good grief. You really go all out when you're responding to stuff don't you?!

I said I didn't know where they were getting their stuff for the site from.

No, what you said was you didn't know how they were getting their stuff. There is a big difference there. Allow me to quote your previous post:

I'm assuming here that you're saying evidence against them stealing... I did NOT say they were. I did not say that I THINK they are... You're putting words in my mouth here. I just said IF. I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all.

pay sites are sharing information like real names, addresses, phone numbers, usernames, etc. with other paysites to try to figure out who's sharing the files.

I AM however, aware of this. I even asked them at PMBD for their help, but they didn't give me any. They didn't even respond to my post. So how benevolent should I be exactly???

What did you ask, where did you ask it and how long have you waited for an answer? These are all rather important details you need to offer before I'm going to feel sympathetic with you in the least.

You know what I think would help you out a lot? Forget about what's happening over there; concentrate on what's being said here.

How about taking some of your OWN advice and not running to your friends for help. You asked to have a debate on Boolprop, you got one. You were the one who brought the other forum into it.

For the love of...*headdesk* One of the moderators on this site (Drew) was the one who said he was getting tired of one person responding to all of the criticisms, and that was the only reason I asked other people to chime in. I was doing just fine on my own until he said that. If you have an issue with that, bring it up with Drew and not me. Here's something that might actually help you understand everything that's going on: read the whole frickin' thread!!! *facepalm*

Now you're really starting to piss me off, Emma. Where is all of this attitude coming from?
__________________________________________________

Me to Her

Maybe I should now amend my previous statements about you. I didn't have a problem with you before; you've certainly made me have one with you now with your unnecessarily pissy attitude and leaps of logic. *sigh*

I don't really give a toss how you feel about me.

I even asked them at PMBD for their help, but they didn't give me any. They didn't even respond to my post

What did you ask, where did you ask it and how long have you waited for an answer? These are all rather important details you need to offer before I'm going to feel sympathetic with you in the least.

I'm not asking for your sympathy!?!?! I was just stating a fact. But just since you ask, and since for some inane reason I always feel the need to justify myself:

1) I asked whether they thought I needed to make a claim against Rose.
2) I asked in the RELEVANT THREAD at the forums
3) I've waited two weeks now in what was an active thread at the time.

Now you're really starting to piss me off, Emma. Where is all of this attitude coming from?

Don't f*cking talk to me like you're my mother.
______________________________________________

Her to Me

Maybe I should now amend my previous statements about you. I didn't have a problem with you before; you've certainly made me have one with you now with your unnecessarily pissy attitude and leaps of logic. *sigh*

I don't really give a toss how you feel about me.

People who have behaved shamefully usually don't care how rational people think about them. Look at your behavior towards me in your last couple of PMs. You have acted in a completely unacceptable manner for anyone, let alone someone who is supposed to be a moderator. Your conduct is embarrassing.

I even asked them at PMBD for their help, but they didn't give me any. They didn't even respond to my post.

What did you ask, where did you ask it and how long have you waited for an answer? These are all rather important details you need to offer before I'm going to feel sympathetic with you in the least.

I'm not asking for your sympathy!?!?! I was just stating a fact.

Well, I figured since you have the right to fly off the handle when I stated a fact (about your accusations of hacking), then I naturally thought I was permitted to as well.

But just since you ask, and since for some inane reason I always feel the need to justify myself:

Don't bother. Your attitude is reprehensible, and I wouldn't help you now if you asked me to.

Now you're really starting to piss me off, Emma. Where is all of this attitude coming from?

Don't f*cking talk to me like you're my mother.

Yes, yes, yes. Here we go. Everyone knows that cursing someone out when they're trying to be polite to you means that you automatically win the argument. Congratulations! You're the most well-spoken, educated, and mature poster to ever grace this forum! You should feel extremely proud that you're able to start cursing people out when they're trying to figure out why you've suddenly went from Dr. Jeckyll to Mr. Hyde. Bravo! *clap clap clap*

I've noticed that you conveniently refused to address the whole 'I never said anyone was hacking!' issue when it was perfectly clear that you did. Maybe you think pretending it didn't exist will make you feel better. You should be ashamed of yourself for not only making false accusations to people, but also losing your temper over a mistake that you made in your wording to me in a PM. You are petty and spiteful and I no longer can defend you in anything you say or do.

Do not PM me ever again on this or any other matter. I am filing a complaint against you with Jennifer momentarily. It's a shame you couldn't act like an adult throughout this whole ordeal. Take care of yourself.

_______________________________________________________

So there you have it. All the PMs - exactly as they were, word for word, except, as I stated earlier to remove irrelevant text not related to this issue. Please feel free to comment.

[Pescado]

From what I can tell, this conversation went pear-shaped about the time she took a hypothetical statement about what if we WERE stealing something, and interpreted it as an accusation of such activity. Other than that, it makes my eyes glaze over. This is why I largely ignore most PMs, and I think the fact that you allowed yourself to get riled over what was a stupid statement that didn't follow from what you actually said, rather than simply dismissing that point and not responding to it, probably made it worse. The problem escalated when you responded affirmatively to the request for why you were pissed at her. You should have just done what I do, and gone, "I have no idea what you're talking about."

In any case, this is a stupid argument and I recommend simply ignoring it and filing it in the DELETED bin. Less talking, more looting. I want to break 4 TB next month.

[simsfunk]

From what I can tell, this conversation went pear-shaped about the time she took a hypothetical statement about what if we WERE stealing something, and interpreted it as an accusation of such activity.

Thank you.

You're right. I did get riled about something that I probably shouldn't have done. Unfortunately, I tend to do that - add to the fact that I'm 5 months pregnant and I suppose it was bound to happen.

Anyway, thank you for at least letting me get my side in. And keep up the good work.

I'm off to find the DELETED bin now.

[BlueSoup]

Oh no.  Don't tell Pescado you're pregnant.  He doesn't do well with pregnant women (check the newsbox at MATY for proof).

Wait.  This just occurred to me - Emma Laverwinkle-MATY Emma?

Edit again:  Nah, that Emma gave birth this week.  Carry on.  

[The ISZ]

To Simsfunk

What is there to get under control?  I don't get why the topic of Paysites has to be controlled?  Why can't it go in the direction it goes and leave it be?  I do not get why people are trying so hard to control what people say, think or feel on the matter either way.

For fucks sake, just let people say what they want. Candy coating it and or ignoring it only makes matters worse in my opinion.  The more you try to control the situation the more people will get bent.  

In my opinion you over reacted in those PM's, but this is only my opinion from what I read.  

Some people don't get it.  The more you try to censure and prevent folks from talking about something the worse the situation will get.  Allowing people to vent and discuss the topic gets it out in the open and eventually the topic will grow old.  People will become done with talking about it so much when certain folks quit trying to make the subject taboo.

[neriana]

1) The thread at boolprop seems very under control, with a few moderators coming close to panicking about nothing much, but it's your site so you know it best, probably. Whether you perceive the thread here as "out of control" or not is really a non-issue. I don't see it, but my opinion about it being whacked or not is as important as yours is (like, not important at all).

2) You seem resentful that no one here helped you when you complained about Rose. I don't recall seeing that post, perhaps it got lost in the shuffle of another thread. However, it's not the job of other people on the internet to help you. But could you link to the thread where you asked for help, so that anyone who feels like it may help you?

3) "I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all." I can see how this could be intrepreted as quite insulting. Bluesoup has certainly stated how PMBD gets custom content at least once on boolprop, and others have talked about it many places in the community.

All this goes to bolster something I've thought for quite a while: arguing over PM's is a bad idea. It really sucks to get an argumentative PM from a moderator of a site, and it does make one feel that she's at a disadvantage. My take is that Denimjo had every right to ask for help in that debate, and every right to complain here about a ridiculous comment that she couldn't complain about there. And that both of you got nasty fast in the PMs, which is what invariably happens when arguments occur in that form.

[Captain Feathersword]

Most of what I see is a misunderstanding that went the way most do and got out of control. The dumbest part is that you're really on the same side just at slightly different angles.
I don't understand where all the boolpropian mods are coming from having never been there before reading this thread. If the problem with big words had been unchallenged here, I don't think any of this would have happened. Whoever made that comment in the first place is the biggest idiot in all this. Maybe it should have stayed at boolprop, but attacking people for using their vocabularies is a pretty stupid thing to do. None of the words were offensive so let the children learn something. I certainly wish I had been exposed to differences of opinion in my youth. I still resent those who pretended that everything in life is black and white.
On the whole I do think it was foolish of Denimjo to make such a public statement re: simsfunk. Both of them got a bit hot under the collar and let out too many heated words.
My advice to simsfunk/Emma: next time you want to PM someone in that tone, talk to someone who isn't involved first. A level head is essential when moderating and all your actions at boolprop are those of a mod.

[caryse]

Oh no.  Don't tell Pescado you're pregnant.  He doesn't do well with pregnant women (check the newsbox at MATY for proof).

*Hides pregnant belly from Pescado*

I've got 38 days to go until my due date. It feels like I've been pregnant for about three years now, heh.

C.

[Randomness]

THank you, simsfunk. I am a person that is adamently against publically sharing PMS with other people, but since you've shown absolutely no problem with doing as such, I'll take that as an indication that you won't have a problem if I do the same.

Here is where I got the impression that she was still thinking that people are hacking:

(although if it turns out they ARE "stealing" the stuff from the creators to put up at the site, that's probably not such a great thing!)

You are, of course, entitled to think that, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I'm assuming here that you're saying evidence against them stealing... I did NOT say they were. I did not say that I THINK they are... You're putting words in my mouth here. I just said IF. I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all.

Bolding mine. Note she said she didn't know how people were getting the files, not where, but how. That's where I got the indication that you still think people are hacking. If, on the other hand, you simply made a poor wording choice, all, you had to do was tell me as such and I would have accepted that. Unfortunately, since you decided to completely ignore the reference I made to that sentence in subsequent PMs, I took that to mean that you really can't defend yourself against the fact that you said that. If anyone requests it, I can provide a screenshot of that part of the message, but that is what I'm talking about.

As for your little temper tantrum about Jennifer taking your "side" over mine, hmmmm, let's see, who would you think has a more valid point: someone who is being polite and civil, or someone who is pitching a public temper tantrum like a 2-year-old that's been told the word no and is using language that is not permitted on the site that they're moderating? Hmmmmm...

And for the record, simsfunk: pregnancy is not an excuse to be able to get away with poor behavior. If I had gone over there and called you an immature, foul-mouthed, cocksucking cunt, would you have liked that?* No? And yet you're permitted here to call me a lying bitch, but expect to be forgiven for it because you're pregnant. Get over yourself.

*To use your defense of yourself, no I'm not calling you that.

[simsfunk]

Alright - I'm not arguing about this. Just to say that 1) Why would anyone need a screenshot?!?! The exact same piece of message is RIGHT there at the top of this page.

and 2)

Here is where I got the impression that she was still thinking that people are hacking

You are still implying that at some stage I said that people here were hacking/stealing. I NEVER said or thought that. You just assumed that's what I thought.

[Randomness]

You are still implying that at some stage I said that people here were hacking/stealing. I NEVER said or thought that. You just assumed that's what I thought.

I guess pregnancy has made you unable to read as well, despite that I've shown you three times now why I got that impression from you.

So, quick question: who here thinks I'm, as simsfunk has contended, a "LYING BITCH?"*

*Formatting intact.

[simsfunk]

I guess pregnancy has made you unable to read as well

Oh yes, you're VERY mature.

Whether you "got that impression"or not you should have just taken it from the first time I told you (wording or not) and my subsequent posts all around the forum which said I believed that they were not getting hold of the content in way such as stealing.

Nitpicking about a "how" instead of a "where" in subsequent messages is finding trouble where there isn't any.

[Randomness]

Whether you "got that impression"or not you should have just taken it from the first time I told you (wording or not) and my subsequent posts all around the forum which said I believed that they were not getting hold of the content in way such as stealing.

Nitpicking about a "how" instead of a "where" in subsequent messages is finding trouble where there isn't any.

I'll try one more time to get this through to you:

Asking 'how' someone got something is different than 'where' they got it from. This sentence here:

Person A: 'Hey, how'd you get that bottle of pop?'

 is different that this one:

Person A: 'Hey, where'd you get that bottle of pop?'

That's the difference. It's not nitpicking since the word difference changes the actual meaning of the sentence. If you meant to say 'I don't know where they got that custom content,' I wouldn't have thought for a second that you thought that people were stealing. Can't you simply accept the fact that you made a mistake and used an incorrect word in your PM to me?

[simsfunk]

Can't you simply accept the fact that you made a mistake and used an incorrect word in your PM to me?

FINE! I'll accept that.

If you can just say to yourself, "Huh! She already said SEVERAL times that she didn't think PMBD are stealing... she mustn't have meant anything by "how" instead of "where"... I wonder why I started all this crap off...."

[Randomness]

Can't you simply accept the fact that you made a mistake and used an incorrect word in your PM to me?

FINE! I'll accept that.

There you go. That was the basis of the misunderstanding, simsfunk, and had you simply copped to that much earlier, you wouldn't have been put in the position where you had to start acting so childish and publically pitching a temper tantrum that makes you look so badly.

This admission from you, however, does nothing to excuse your piss-poor behavior that you've consistently displayed for the last several days.

In addition:

If you can just say to yourself, "Huh! She already said SEVERAL times that she didn't think PMBD are stealing... she mustn't have meant anything by "how" instead of "where"... I wonder why I started all this crap off...."

You cannot depend on the person you're conversing with to be a mind reader and know what you actually meant in a message (especially when pregnancy seems to do so many weird things to you, like causes one to revert to behavior that would be more suitable for someone the age of two). The honus is not on me to interpret what you meant; it's on you to make yourself understood correctly (especially since 'how' and 'where' are not "big words").

And despite the fact that I don't expect you to honor this request, I would like an apology from you for accusing me of being a liar. The 'bitch' part I have no problem with, as that is purely subjective (and is doubtless held by a number of people), but nowhere did I lie about you, as you did, in fact, send me two rather nasty PMs (by your own admission since you've posted them).