Take a look at this!

[Pescado]

In Soviet Russia, dead horse beats YOU!

[Saraswati]

I mean, as it seems, pay sites have been legalized. So, the "free pay stuff" does not work anymore.

Solander

I will mention here that I don't fileshare. The people who know me are aware that I'm borderline obsessive about not doing so. The thing is, it's not just a question of something being legal or not legal, and it never has been.. It comes down to this...

We all pay a fortune for our games. In Australia I pay 50 bucks for each ep plus an extra forty bucks if we really want the Prima Games. So that means that we've all spent a bloody fortune before we go anywhere near a paysite.

And I may get jumped on when I say this, but it was kinda ok when paysites were charging 5 bucks a month... You could kinda justify it in a time where people paid 60 and even a Hundred bucks a month for their hosting. But these days the average cost of bandwidth has gone way down, but the amount paysites are charging has gone through the roof.

And in tandem with this, they have developed a sense of entitlement where they beleive it's ok for them to charge a fortune for their often crappy content. And their prices have gone up to an unreasonable point. It isn't fair or ok on the guys here who do pay for content to be paying 14 bucks a month for hair that doesn't work properly in game and that has gaps at the neck. (I note that I refuse to spend a cent at all)

There has to be a reasonable limit if you're charging at all..

But this ignores the fact that unless you're one of the top 5 percent of sites, you shouldn't be paying more than 10-15 bucks a month for your hosting, so you shouldn't need to charge in the first place. If you can't afford 5-15 bucks a month to run a site, you shouldn't be running one. And I am saying this as someone who paid for her own hosting out of her own pocket back when she was a siteowner.

The bottom line is, there is no financial reason to charge and no justification to do so in terms of quality.. Not to mention hundreds of paysites trying to milk thousands of dollars out of the punters out there is plain wrong.

The legal argument is fairly irrelevant and has been all along..  Paysites are just plain wrong and have been all along.

[calalily]

Why do I even try being nice?  Geez.  Please provide proof of the " money grubbing".

Only one who can provide proof is you, and you're not going to supply anything that makes you look bad are you  :wink:

You can go back and read my reasoning for why we did what we did yourself.

You still haven't answered my questions about your site, and doubt you ever will - such as whether you have ever been fileshare friendly. I'm sure you'll tell me you've already answered/you're sick again, must go/ignore this post.  I haven't seen any supreme reasoning that makes me think any differently about you or your site.  I've seen some nonsensical stuff, and some pigheaded behaviour, but no reasoning that would convince me.

[Saraswati]

Mikey I've read all about why you state you went pay.. I was actually on your groups about three or four years ago. And I also know damn well that you ran a free Sims 1 site for a really bloody long time when your bandwidth likely would have been far higher than it is now. So the excuse of keeping it away from kiddies does not hold water for me considering you were a free site for that length of time. If it was that much of a concern, you would have been a paysite from the beginning. Or did you stay a freesite just so you could have an excuse to beat up that Donna woman for doing the wrong things with your lovebeds?

I am well aware that both Insim and MTS run free adult sites successfully and fairly successfully and manage to keep the kids out. They just keep it well out of sight so you can't find it unless you know where to look.. plus a kid would be fairly easy to spot from their immature behavior. And if they can do so, there's no reason on the face of the planet why you can't either. You just want people to pay you, and use the kids thing as an excuse.

[Marhis]

I can express my personal point of view. My concern is about 1) legality and 2) community spirit.

1) Franchising or other kind of license is ok to me. I don't like it, but it satisfies my personal demand of legal stance.
In short, if the EULA does no more differentiate between commercial and non-commercial, paysites are ok with their requests.

2) I stand my ground, instead, about the commercialization of fanbase. A paysite (user-created content) is not comparable to an H&M, or Aspyr, or any other similar licensor - which is clearly economically separated by the fan community since its birth.
The fact paysites exploit the community is exactly the same, and the same is my ethical/moral/whatever opinion about them.

In conclusion, to me, paysites did the right (and legal) move. I'm sincerely glad to see that at last they did something factual and logical: the continuous and pointless whining was disheartening.
However, I'll continue to consider them the scum. Legal scum, but scum anyway, because of ethical implications.

I don't care about filesharing of pay stuff, just like I didn't care before: my strictly personal reasons why.
I will continue, however, to be a free creator and to support the community of free creators, since pay creators are not part of the same community, exactly like before.

[MIKEY]

Why do I even try being nice?  Geez.  Please provide proof of the " money grubbing".

Only one who can provide proof is you, and you're not going to supply anything that makes you look bad are you  :wink:

You can go back and read my reasoning for why we did what we did yourself.

You still haven't answered my questions about your site, and doubt you ever will - such as whether you have ever been fileshare friendly. I'm sure you'll tell me you've already answered/you're sick again, must go/ignore this post.  I haven't seen any supreme reasoning that makes me think any differently about you or your site.  I've seen some nonsensical stuff, and some pigheaded behaviour, but no reasoning that would convince me.

Ummm...I did answer...In the NeptuneSuzy thread.  I am not answering the same question multiple times anymore...LOL


Actually, it is innocent until proven guilty, so the burden of proof is on you folks.  Ante up.



This statement;

As long as it's free there's really no point in uploading it elsewhere - we can all come to your site and download it at any time. The site doesn't require that all content must be a freeforall - just that it should be free.

And the following statement;

Ah. but harmony and respect is not anything I personally value. MOAR FIGHT is what I value, so an attempt to influence me by pleas for "harmony" and offers of "respect" fall on deaf ears. Some have accused me of being just plain deaf, period.

...are incompatible.

And from what Pestado says, there is no further reason for me to be here (other than my entertainment and amusement), as he has just stated he has no point to make, or moral belief on this issue.  He is just doing  this to be an ass.

MIKEY!!!

P.S.  I have to go to work now, so it'll be safe for you to bash me for 10 or 12 hrs, Pescado.  LOL

[MIKEY]

In Soviet Russia, dead horse beats YOU!

That means a lot coming from a Nation State that had to line up for ass-wipe for decades...

[Gwendolyne]

[And from what Pestado says, there is no further reason for me to be here (other than my entertainment and amusement),

Yes, and...?

[ as he has just stated he has no point to make, or moral belief on this issue.  He is just doing  this to be an ass.

  LOL

That is no news. Everyone here knows that already.

[Minolia]

Well since they EULA has been changed and apparently paysites aren't not allowed any more they don't have to twist their words and can call a spade a spade. With this in mind I wonder if they'll actually admit to being pay and start advertising their items as pay items rather than donation items.

Because personally if I donate to something it gives me warm fuzzies, whereas if I pay for it I expect consumer rights if the thing is not fit for use. And if nothing else I think using the correct term for the transaction might give some pause for thought.

[Solander]

If you now focus on filesharing, what criteria do you use? Is any site, that does not allow filesharing, an enemy? Including free sites like mine, which does strictly prohibit any direkt filesharing or upload on third party sites, if you do not use our creations for your own creations like houses?

My personal view on your policies there is that they're absurd, and ultimately, the only reason I don't is because you haven't made it worth the bother to do so. Ultimately, if you were to, say, go down for an extended period of time, or take your toys and go home like some people have, people would share your files anyway. But since you are not a paysite, there is no particular reason why I would aim to relieve you of your bandwidth burden. It just wouldn't be funny enough.

Seriously: Consider a less fascistic policy. It'll help with that blood pressure problem of yours. It's not like you make money off it. Given that your policy can only function under voluntary compliance, seeing as you have no ability to actually enforce it, you'll make yourself look less silly if you don't try to even make a policy. Like the official MATY policy is "Meh."

I'm a german, i have to be fascistic

No, to be serious:

In my definition, a community is a balance of GIVE and TAKE. If you abstract anything around it, everyone GIVES and TAKES the same amount, that's the perfect vision of a real friendly and stable community.

I (or we at Pimp my Sims as creators) GIVE creations to this community. 100% free and if you take our traffic into consideration, lots of people seem to like, what we are doing. And we TAKE (reserve) the right to set up some (in my eyes quite user friendly) terms of use, which you call fascistic, for giving this stuff to the community.

But as we are part of this "oh so good" community, the GIVE and TAKE thing does also apply to our visitors as other part of the community, the players. If anyone thinks, that he likes, what we are doing, and decides to TAKE our stuff, he has to GIVE (accept) our conditions.

This is a fair deal. We GIVE and TAKE, any Sims 2 player TAKES and GIVES. If one site think that he/she GETS LESS, than he/she GIVES, than noone is forced to TAKE and therefore, not to GIVE.

That's it.

If one side decides not to GIVE after TAKING, it is breaking that fundamental rule of any working community in my eyes.

That does not apply, if i should decide to close Pimp my Sims.com, as I would not GIVE anymore, so nobody else would be forced to GIVE, too. But as long as WE do GIVE and TAKE, anyone else has to do so the same. But as long as we GIVE, i also reserve the right for us to TAKE.


Edit:

But since you are not a paysite, there is no particular reason why I would aim to relieve you of your bandwidth burden. It just wouldn't be funny enough.

I just realized, what you did post. It would not be funny enough to upload our stuff? That's, why you are doing it? If yes, you can feel really lucky for having so many really convinced supporters, fighting against paysites to make you feel better when uploading their stuff.

[Paleoanth]

Given that approximately 95% of the gaming communities agree that paysites are unacceptable, we certainly aren't in the minority, and I really doubt filesharing will go away.

Did you want to borrow my calculator?  LOL.  You math is a wee bit off...

A somewhat related question was posted on another forum (S2c).  No one could really find another community with pay files.  I would like to know if anyone here knows of other gaming communities that have this same issue with pay sites?  Is the Sims community the only one dealing with this?

[AnneBonny]

With this in mind I wonder if they'll actually admit to being pay and start advertising their items as pay items rather than donation items.

Ha, that'll be the day. They won't have to but they will continue to do so. Under this chicken shit EULA the paysites can and will continue professing they are alike any other 'fansite'. They won't openly admit to being pay in any shape or form. The term 'donation' has a softer appeal to the sheepish masses.  However, these greedy sons of EA whores fansites that have established themselves as a business/fansite (ie. TSR, Peggys, etc) will not go long without competing against one another more fiercely than ever.

Now that it's somewhat nuetralized under this shitty new EULA the paysites will be more openly aggressive in their retail tactics to draw in new customers. Fueled by a misplaced sense of justice they will gladly compete against each other for the mighty dollar. Afterall, why not? EA games is seemingly backing them up. That bullshit of a promo regarding 'community' that TSR & co. pulled a while ago is going to be chucked to hell in a heartbeat. Paysites are not friends with one another; they are competitors. Can't wait to see who throws down the gauntlet first against the others.

As for the new EULA and my own personal thoughts on it -- not surprising. I'd be an idiot to not figure a corporation hellbent on milking every last dime from it's own customers to not be above supporting the brown-nosing, bare-backing dog that brings them small bones with their own business sites. TSR and Co. advertise the game in a way that makes people want to go out and buy more expansions or stuff packs. Sites alike this one and SFV do not exactly do a good job of promoting the game in a nice mannerism. Stupid, I know, but you all should know that EA Games has never been a fan of file-sharing. Never. This EULA of theirs only further confirms my suspicions that paysites & EA Games wallets go hand in hand. It's not once been about community in their eyes but who gets the dollar.

One more thing about this idiocy -- I don't give a rat's fucking ass about the EULA. Never have nor never will. Those paysite files are paid for fair and square. Therefore it makes it the sole property of the owner whom shelled out the cash to do what they will with it. Should I donate to a handful of paysite assholes to get a few files you can bet I'll willingly share the files openly with whoever or on whatever site I please. Why AnneBonny, why, the sheepish wonders of the world question and whine aloud? Simply because it's my pack of gum and I'll fucking give it to my friends/family if I  choose too; I paid for it.  You put it up for sale and I bought it. Mine not yours.  STFU PWNT!

[Saraswati]

Hey Solander

I actually come from another free site, and I have a slightly different view from these guys.. When I use other people's content, and I have in the past, I am very careful to talk anyone who's content I use. The vast majority of the creative community out there thinks like me, and that's just because with it being a hobby, it's no use if we don't respect the creative endevours of others..

So while I might yell at paysite owners like Mikey because I think he has no integrity and does not tell the truth, I respect you and I for one would never trash your stuff, and I'm not the only one..

Angha Tyl

[Solander]

Hey Solander

I actually come from another free site, and I have a slightly different view from these guys.. When I use other people's content, and I have in the past, I am very careful to talk anyone who's content I use. The vast majority of the creative community out there thinks like me, and that's just because with it being a hobby, it's no use if we don't respect the creative endevours of others..

So while I might yell at paysite owners like Mikey because I think he has no integrity and does not tell the truth, I respect you and I for one would never trash your stuff, and I'm not the only one..

Angha Tyl

This didn't apply to pay sites in specific. It was more a general posting regarding respect within a community. And the "threat" to focus on "filesharing is the king, attack anyone, that does not allow it". If this would be the case and anything of our content would be uploaded to the booty, i would be really, really pissed. As this would show, that it's not a community thing but a personal war against anyone, that does not like to accept the rules of a single group within that community.

[Gwendolyne]

This didn't apply to pay sites in specific. It was more a general posting regarding respect within a community. And the "threat" to focus on "filesharing is the king, attack anyone, that does not allow it". If this would be the case and anything of our content would be uploaded to the booty, i would be really, really pissed. As this would show, that it's not a community thing but a personal war against anyone, that does not like to accept the rules of a single group within that community.

Solander, this is "Paysites must be destroyed" and not "Filesharing is good" Doesn't that answer your question?